23D and Ford F150 EcoBoost ... Great team !

[eartick]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

I have had mostly turbocharged engines in my daily-driver vehicles since 1981. I tend to keep vehicles 8-10 years or so (my turbocharged Legacy Limited wagon with a 5-speed manual is 11 years old, for example) and I have replaced exactly one turbo, on a 1980 Mercury Capri 2.3 Turbo with a carburetor and no water-jacket for cooling the turbo bearing. I replaced that turbo at 145,000 miles.

There *IS* a benefit from running premium, if you drive like you stole it all the time. I've found that I can still drive like a schmuck as long as I keep up with the maintenance, and get both good performance and good service out of my forced-induction engines. Since I drive like that all the time, I can tell the difference when I'm running higher octane... on the newer cars, the computer dials back the boost less often. On the older ones, the warning lights came on less often. Good filters, good oil, regular change cycles, keep the radiators and intercoolers clean, etc.

The 3.5 Ecoboost makes enough power at low enough RPM to walk away from a 5.0 at altitude, even on regular Unleaded. If you're towing heavy or you like to tow 70 (on LT trailer tires of course, let's not confuse this argument) then you'll probably see some benefit from Super. Even with Regular, though, the pressure-altitude compensation is going to make a big difference towing above 4000 ft or so. While the 5.0 may do it, especially with a light-ish trailer and a high-numerical diff, you'll be beating it like a redheaded stepchild. My old 5.4 is hoping I trade it off before I take an Argosy back to Colorado, I guarantee it.

Sounds like you been there.

I do all my own maintenance and stay on top of it. My wife unit does not know why I need all this oil and filters I buy all the time. I told it is kinda like her makeup and trips to the nail salon, maintenance...bwhahahahaha

Should know something next week. Found that truck with the 3.5 and 3.73 diff, max towing package. Probably overkill for the AS but when I put my foot in it, I want it to move

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by eartick

Yeah I am not sure where that came from. I talked again with my Ford contact and he said not way is that a requirement for the 3.5 EB to have to run on premium grade and that it will tow just fine on any fuel grade.

These are the internet rumors that fly out there that get wings and should not IMHO.

Not to be argumentative but: I have been towing with my 2012 F-150 EB for 85,000 miles. About half of that out west on all the various mountain passes.
What I noticed over the years that low octane gasoline often time is marginal to begin with. On sudden inclines, where it is difficult to build momentum thus, rpm without which you can not get the torque build up fast enough the engine will begin to overheat. If the incline is long and extended the engine will overheat before it can built the RPM. Using 91 octane eliminates this problem. I have experimented with this time and again and it works better.Once you get the RPM up to 3000 nothing will stop that beast.
As to locking out 6th gear in Tow Haul its totally unnecessary. TH mode retards up-shifting to keep up the RPM needed for max torque by design.
You will run into more problems especially playing with it manually if you don't have experience than necessary.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Not to be argumentative but: <<< snip >>> TH mode retards up-shifting to keep up the RPM needed for max torque by design.

By locking out 6th gear, we were reading 2100 RPM at 60 MPH... right at the start of the handsome flat top of the torque curve. With that much torque on tap, throttle opening was small and the engine was positively loafing. Our very best performance (including MPG) occurred when in Tow/Haul with 6th locked out. Necessary? Certainly not! Beneficial? Absolutely... Our 'numbers' prove it.

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

You will run into more problems especially playing with it manually if you don't have experience than necessary.

"Not to be argumentative but:" What problems? I've got a boatload of experience... through years of racing competition Porsches, I've got this torque/shifting stuff figured out thank you very much.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

<<< snip >>> On sudden inclines, where it is difficult to build momentum thus, rpm without which you can not get the torque build up fast enough the engine will begin to overheat. If the incline is long and extended the engine will overheat before it can built the RPM. <<< snip >>>

We had not one second of overheating... not even a hint. Even the transmission stayed cool, never exceeding 201-degrees.

[eartick]

Do you know what gear package you are running? Just asking not doubting your word. Like I said earlier my bud has a 5.0 and a 3.31 gear package and struggles in hills but put him on flat land and he is gone

[RFP]

Originally Posted by eartick

Do you know what gear package you are running? Just asking not doubting your word. Like I said earlier my bud has a 5.0 and a 3.31 gear package and struggles in hills but put him on flat land and he is gone

Yep... 3.55 'electronic lock' axle.

Your friend's experience is fairly predictable. The torque available at the relatively low RPM of 2000 with the 5.0 is pretty anemic as compared to the 3.5 EB. Couple that with the 3.31 and it's truly underwhelming.

[GailMac]

Originally Posted by RFP

We just returned from our first 'big' outing with the 23D International Serenity... a month-long trip. Since I didn't bend, break, poke, stain, or flood anything, I counted the trip a major success.

Our trip was 3,100 miles through New Mexico, Colorado (mostly), Utah, and a little bit of Arizona. Following are my thoughts on the 23D/F150 combination:

The set-up:
2014 Airstream 23D International Signature
15" Sendel wheels and Michelin 'LTX' tires replacing the OEM fourteeners
2015 Ford XLT SuperCrew F150 with 3.5 EcoBoost, Max Tow
Reese 'SC' WD hitch with 800-pound spring bars

The truck handled the 23D with zero issues. The trailer was rock steady with never the slightest hint of sway or other instability. The truck's transmission operates seamlessly between gears and the 'smart' downshifting when descending significant grades was impressive. The 3.5 EcoBoost had plenty of power and was able to handle even some pretty steep grades with apparent ease and no strain.

The first thousand miles or so of the trip, I set the truck to TOW/HAUL mode, but did not lock it out of 6th gear. Towing was effortless, but once I changed to lock the transmission out of 6th gear, fuel mileage improved dramatically.

Towing at a more or less consistent 60 MPH (2,100 RPM) we averaged for the entire trip just over 15 MPG. I'm confident it would have been notably better if I had done the sixth gear lock out for the entire trip.

The truck was very quiet and comfortable.

All in all, I couldn't be happier!

Rob

I pull a 25' AS with my 2013 3.5 SuperCab EcoBoost 3.37 Axle and it does an great job with no problems. Can top the hills in TX at just about any speed. GailMac

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by RFP

We had not one second of overheating... not even a hint. Even the transmission stayed cool, never exceeding 201-degrees.

PS: I am pulling a 30' International that weighs in trip ready at 7,400 lbs.The truck is loaded to max capacity. My EB has the 3.73 axle. I never had any issues with trans overheating but did experience engine overheating on a couple of occasions as I described previously.
I don't get the mileage that the people with the shorter units seem to get.
At 60 on straight away driving I get 12.5 to 13. As soon as I push it at 70, it drops to 11.0 to 11.5. Pulling over Vail Pass on I 70 it drops down to 8 mpg.

[mattskav]

The 2.7EB is all the motor you need with the F150; after towing a 16 Sport which seemed non-existent behind my 2014 Honda OTE I was a bit disappointed in the F150 and 23D combo. I find the chassis of the F150 the limiting factor not the engines. While the 2.7 runs a seemingly endless 10 lbs of boost while towing it gets reasonable economy @65-68MPH and you can't even come *close* to going full throttle at this speed even at 8-10% grades. You can also blow past guys with new HD diesels pulling huge new 5th wheels with ease up grade

The issue seems to be that, even with a WDH, the dampers seem at their limit for the 750+ lb tongue weight and the steering is oddly affected even with the WDH set up nice and level.

I'm content with the match realizing the 23D is nearly twice the weight of the 16 sport and the F150 is only a 400lb heavier vehicle than the OTE, though I really expected more. If I was going to a 25+ I would not get a bigger motor in the F150 I'd get a bigger truck...

[NoResults]

It may be that you don't have the right set up on your vehicle. Also the 3.5 Eco is a much stronger engine and with the tow haul mode and 3.55 gearing I have no problem whatsoever with my 23FB. My tongue wt is much lighter with the fb vs the 23D.

I have the 7500 GVWR Package. Check your door sticker your truck may not be set up to handle the trailer and cargo.

Just my thoughts.

Dave

[RFP]

Originally Posted by NoResults

It may be that you don't have the right set up on your vehicle. <<< snip >>>

Dave

I'm thinking that you may be on to something here, Dave... my experience, and that of mattskav couldn't be more different. Our truck/trailer are rock steady and with CAT scale truck weight of [only] 5,680 pounds (hitched, loaded, and ready for travel), we are well under our GVWR.

I set up the Reese 'SC' hitch myself, following the manufacturer's written instructions. I did a bit of re-tweaking, and am delighted with the result.

Rob

[mattskav]

I'm going to have the dealer check the setup again. It sits perfectly level, I measured it and looked it over and the only thing that seems off is that the chains on the WDH are not straight up and down. They were just lazy and didn't cut the A frame screws down so they are hitting the battery box preventing them from moving more. It's a pro series which is junky but is the same WDH that i had on the van with the 16 sport that towed fine.

The truck is a 6500# I'd be curious to know your NCC... mine is 1417# I run less than that for sure, we've got 450lbs worth of people between the 4 of us and maybe an extra 150lbs in the truck.

With the 2.7 there was a payload package that upgraded the rear to a 9" 3.73 and added a manual parking brake but didn't give it heavier duty springs and lost fuel economy so i didn't get it. That package gives it an extra 330# capacity but the fact that it does not have heavier duty springs is what's leading me to think the truck is chassis limited.

It sure as heck isn't the motor, though it runs a seemingly constant 5-10 lbs of boost it's got more than enough power and the fact it has a CGI block makes me not at all concerned about the boost.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

PS: I am pulling a 30' International that weighs in trip ready at 7,400 lbs.The truck is loaded to max capacity. My EB has the 3.73 axle. I never had any issues with trans overheating but did experience engine overheating on a couple of occasions as I described previously.
I don't get the mileage that the people with the shorter units seem to get.
At 60 on straight away driving I get 12.5 to 13. As soon as I push it at 70, it drops to 11.0 to 11.5. Pulling over Vail Pass on I 70 it drops down to 8 mpg.

Your experience of overheating on occasion is same as mine. I have the 2012 Platinum EB, Supercrew, shortbed also...I have now tried premium, this year in MT, and have had no issues. You make sense FranklyFrank...(even though you may not have the Porsche racing experience some folks mention)
I heated up 4 times over the past 2 years when pulling my 25' over Las Vegas grade...at 60mph....Also happened once coming out of Borrego Springs. Great info on this thread. I am anxious on the new EB with 10speed for sure.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by mattskav

<<< snip >>>
The truck is a 6500# I'd be curious to know your NCC... mine is 1417# I run less than that for sure, we've got 450lbs worth of people between the 4 of us and maybe an extra 150lbs in the truck.
<<< snip >>>

Our truck's payload is 1,870 pounds per the driver side door frame sticker. It's GVWR is 6,800, and since all hitched and loaded to travel our truck (with Airstream attached) tips the CAT scale at 5680, so, we are well within the truck's payload rating (by 16%).

It does seem as if your set up could stand a check up. Like you, I find it strange that you are sensing 'steering issues' (I forget just how you described it) with a nice level set up.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

<<< snip >>>...(even though you may not have the Porsche racing experience some folks mention)
<<< snip >>>

Dang, that really was a pretty smart-a$$ comment on my part, wasn't it? Sorry 'bout that!

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Your experience of overheating on occasion is same as mine. I have the 2012 Platinum EB, Supercrew, shortbed also...I have now tried premium, this year in MT, and have had no issues. You make sense FranklyFrank...(even though you may not have the Porsche racing experience some folks mention)
I heated up 4 times over the past 2 years when pulling my 25' over Las Vegas grade...at 60mph....Also happened once coming out of Borrego Springs. Great info on this thread. I am anxious on the new EB with 10speed for sure.

Thx..
I drove Semi Tankers for a number of years in my late twenties. Afterwards I built up a construction business from scratch into 25 Semi Trailer Dumps, multitude of heavy construction equipment, backhoes, loaders, dozers, service trucks, the requisite equipment trailers etc.etc,etc. Driving, fixing and operating all of them. I understand it doesn't measure up in gaining experience to tooling around with a Porsche but what the hey. Oh I almost forgot, in between I managed to learn how to fly airplanes, little ones.
I retired from all of that four years ago, turned the business over to my sons and hit the road with our beautiful Airstream pulled buy my awesome Ford F-150 Platinum EB.
I came to America in 1959 at age 16 and didn't speak one word of English. This wonderful country has given me the opportunity to build a great life. I will be forever grateful.