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Old 06-22-2014, 11:42 AM   #197
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That is just the point made in the post above that reflects European use this Italian diesel in much cooler air than our SouthWest. Also, they build their caravans very cheaply (not reflected in the prices though) and they are much lighter than our equipment and have much smaller profiles.

Thus the engine in most European vehicles is not under the loads we subject them to over here.

This is probably best considered a light duty diesel motor as compared to the medium duty rating in most of the big 3 ton diesel pickups. It could be great for a popup camper, hauling the trash to the dump or commuting to work.

At least the ton market pickup is finally getting pushed into the diesel world.

When the Japanese trucks implement the v8 Cummins, I expect the Dodge ton diesel market to tank as folks see what happens with an American designed diesel motor for the America market takes to the streets towing our designed trailers and weights.
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Old 06-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #198
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Still somewhere someone must have overheated one of these if it is a problem.. I agree, I would not want to be the first. Jim
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:17 PM   #199
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I see that the Grand Cherokee is rated to tow 3500 kg/7700 lbs in Europe, with either the same diesel or a smaller 188 hp diesel. Don't agree that the Europeans are not making this engine work.

I'd agree the VM is a lighter duty (automotive) diesel, but I would put the Cummins B engines (B, or ISB) in the same category. Other medium duty engines from Cummins are derated relative to the pickup version in this displacement, and medium/heavy duty diesel engines have cylinder liners, among other things.

I have a suspicion that these modern engines are just running hotter, by design, than we are used to from decades ago.

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Old 06-22-2014, 02:15 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by switz View Post

While Europe has the mountains, they lack the extreme high temperatures of the SouthWest.
Italy, South of France, Spain, Portugal and a whole bunch of other countries would beg to differ.

I've taken a truck across the Pyrenees in 110 summer heat. It gets hot there as well.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:10 PM   #201
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Is this SUB going to be tested with the new method? I can't remember the Jxxxx std
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:11 PM   #202
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I meant SUV
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:45 PM   #203
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I would be real careful in allowing any TV to overheat. If the dealer determines by examination of the engine data log that the engine was allowed to overheat without the driver backing off, stopping or otherwise preventing it you might in for a very expensive fix or a significant warranty fight.

I once had a dealer try to deny replacing my warped rotors due to our casual conversation pertaining to my towing with it. It took 15 heated minutes and a request to chat with the service manager to resolve the issue.

I too fully believe the GC would overheat if allowed based on my 30F pull east to the Eisenhower tunnel.

I always turn the AC off and if needed roll the back windows 1/2 down, open the sunroof vent and put the heater on to maximum high fan and heat.

Though uncomfortable for a bit it often keeps it under the red.

For the GC I might consider a custom aluminum radiator and upgraded fans.

Does the GC have the under the engine close out cover? I might also consider taking it off to see if it would increase thru the radiator/engine compartment airflow.

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Still somewhere someone must have overheated one of these if it is a problem.. I agree, I would not want to be the first. Jim
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:25 PM   #204
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This is a bit off the diesel topic since it regards our 2014 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 liter Hemi. We just completed our first two days of travel, towing our 2006 Bambi 19'. The first leg was from Tucson, AZ to Kingman, AZ, an altitude gain of about 2000 feet in 100-103 degree heat. Got 15.1 mgp running at about 50-55mph. I monitored the trans temp (digital) and the analog engine temp. Both stayed close to normal in spite of the heat. On the relatively steep grades just south of Kingman I ran at about 35mph to keep the temps reasonable.

The second leg was from Kingman to Ely, NV. Again, an altitude gain of about 2000 ft, but we did go over some passes that were over 7000 ft. Mileage today was 16.1 mpg running at about 55-60mph. Temps were much lower....80-98. No issues with the Jeep, nor the Bambi.

We thought about the diesel, but they were hard to find in our area and I didn't want to order one. Thought briefly about the V6, but glad I got the Hemi. It is not overpowered while pulling long hills. The Bambi came in just over 4000lbs at the CAT scale at the start of our trip.

Really like the Jeep. The Bambi is just OK.... much poorer build quality than our 2003.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:45 AM   #205
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It seems to me like the radiator and fan system was not designed with enough heat dissipation capacity for a diesel engine operating in the mountains of the US Southwest in summer temperatures over 105 degrees and towing at near capacity.
A lot of speculation in this thread . This vehicle is controlled by computers, and I suspect that the isolated overheating problems are control related, not hardware. Mine (with no overheating issues) has had some dozen system software updates since delivery. This is a new engine in the USA and many dealers are inexperienced in diagnosing and servicing it. Experience will tell, but in the first 2400 miles of towing, I have found my GC EcoDiesel to be a superb tow vehicle. The trip back to CO (currently in MS) will certainly provide more experience.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:31 PM   #206
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A lot of speculation in this thread . This vehicle is controlled by computers, and I suspect that the isolated overheating problems are control related, not hardware.
Agree on both counts.

As to the capabilities of the diesel engine cooling system, the diesel engine option has only 2/3 the horsepower of the gasoline engine, is using less fuel and has higher thermal efficiency. Those factors all add up to less demand on the cooling system than the gasoline engine versions, not more.

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Old 06-24-2014, 02:40 PM   #207
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I too fully believe the GC would overheat if allowed based on my 30F pull east to the Eisenhower tunnel.

I always turn the AC off and if needed roll the back windows 1/2 down, open the sunroof vent and put the heater on to maximum high fan and heat.

Though uncomfortable for a bit it often keeps it under the red.

For the GC I might consider a custom aluminum radiator and upgraded fans.

Does the GC have the under the engine close out cover? I might also consider taking it off to see if it would increase thru the radiator/engine compartment airflow.
I really think you should get rid of that inadequate vehicle. You shouldn't subject yourself to that.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:22 PM   #208
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Were there any limitations or use restrictions in the owner's manual regarding towing or towing recommendations? Read the fine print to see if there is a weasel wording regarding towing loads.

If the vehicle is sold as a towing vehicle with no limitations on speed, grade etc (meaning the trailer weight and tongue weight are under the maximum, the total load in the tow vehicle is within limits and the combination weight of the tow vehicle and trailer is under the maximum, then perhaps the vehicle is not living up to the sales pitch. There could be a legal option to move to a different tow vehicle.

To the chap saying they tow in Europe, yes they do, but not 7,000 pound trailers with load equalizing hitches and electric brakes. The last two items are illegal across the pond to keep US made heavier and less expensive trailers off the Continent as they realized their really cheaply built units would stop selling.

So the vehicles over there are not experiencing what happens over here with at least 50 percent heavier trailers. Also, with the narrower mountain roads, their speeds tend to be lower than what we do on the wider roads here.

I have driven in the UK, Spain and Germany and own a turbo diesel Mercedes station wagon (called an Estate) in the UK.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:10 PM   #209
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To the chap saying they tow in Europe, yes they do, but not 7,000 pound trailers with load equalizing hitches and electric brakes. The last two items are illegal across the pond to keep US made heavier and less expensive trailers off the Continent as they realized their really cheaply built units would stop selling.

So the vehicles over there are not experiencing what happens over here with at least 50 percent heavier trailers. Also, with the narrower mountain roads, their speeds tend to be lower than what we do on the wider roads here.

I have driven in the UK, Spain and Germany and own a turbo diesel Mercedes station wagon (called an Estate) in the UK.
That'd be me

The rating is actually 7700 lbs in the UK. Heavier than the US. And the same diesel has been offered there since 2011 in the Grand Cherokee, albeit with different software. Time enough for problems to show up. Scanning the UK boards didn't show much about overheating.

I agree that European drivers aren't using equalizing hitches and electric brakes, but I don't see how those impact engine cooling.

I lived in the UK and drove there and on the continent. I found speeds to be higher there, but that wasn't specific to towing.

With the lower cooling demands of the diesel, I think that Chrysler will get it sorted out. It isn't like this is new to them.

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Old 06-24-2014, 08:26 PM   #210
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This weeks Under the Awning photo was just taken at MacGregor Point Provincial Park. My old Jeep CRD is visiting and continues to perform beautifully. It now has 350,000 k on it. It previously towed a 25' Safari about 100,000 k and a 30' Signature about 30,000 k. The 2014 Jeep Diesel has now towed the 30' Signature about 13,000 k without a single issue. It will get its first oil change tomorrow before I head out to Alberta, 3500 k. I have had no overheating issues with either vehicle ( or any of my other 5 previous Jeeps) Others have apparently not been so lucky, although I have read about fears but no actual problems. The new Diesel and the 8 speed Trans are just simply fantastic. ( the caveat being I have no experience with any other brand, if it ain't broke, bla,bla,bla) JimClick image for larger version

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