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Old 10-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #113
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ugh...bummer...I hope my PP that will very soon be installed on my trailer will not have this issue with my 2010 RAM......
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:19 AM   #114
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Finally got the call from the dealer's Service Manager yesterday afternoon. He said he had talked with a factory rep, and the rep in turn had talked with the factory Engineering Department, and was told that using the brake controller in "Heavy Electric Over Hydraulic" mode with electric only brakes would not cause any problem.

So, basically they waited long enough, and stalled long enough that I am tired of fooling with them. The brakes work OK in the "HEOH" mode, and if you have a Dodge/Ram truck with the factory controller, I suggest you try setting it in that mode.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:48 PM   #115
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Your brake controller seems to be a lemon.....
I towed the AS last weekend with a 2012 ctd and the controller was set on 4.5 with the HAHA hitch. Worked flawlessly.....
I'm sorry to hear they won't help you.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #116
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That's an interesting point. Why can't the dealer swap out the controller??
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #117
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That's an interesting point. Why can't the dealer swap out the controller??
They said they did change it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #118
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They said they did change it.
Something's rotten in Demmark....
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #119
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After reading through these posts, I have some thoughts.

It would not take a very sophisticated piece of equipment to check if there is brake output at the trailer connector simultaneous to pedal application. A jumper wire and a volt meter should do it. Then compare the findings to another similar truck. Note: rear brake lights are not controlled by or through the integrated brake module .

There is a flash update to the controller that addresses sensitivity. From Chrysler TechConnect:

" Updated ITBM software is available on wiTECH for customers who regularly tow a light, or unloaded,trailer. For customers that need a less aggressive braking for low values of gain, to avoid the increased stopping sensitivity; too much braking. This update will also provide a more aggressive calibration for high values of gain."

This flash may or may not apply to your truck. Dealer can tell if you are at the current software level through wiTech (Chrysler diagnostic tool) by looking at the flash files for the ITBM. If available for your truck it may or may not address the problem.

Calling a manufacturers' customer service for this type of an issue is generally futile. The customer service personnel has no technical knowledge and is there solely to facilitate the repair scheduling and reimbursement issues with the dealer. You call customer service, they in turn call the dealer. The dealer provides a response and customer service calls you back. An appointment is made and then customer service stays on top of it to the point that they usually make the vehicle owner and the service adviser at the dealership angry.

The dealer technician has limited ability to diagnose this type of problem. First he has to be certain there is a problem. Then he has to be certain the problem is with the truck and not the trailer, the set up, or connections. Everything from the trailer connector back is probably out of his realm. These new vehicles have sophisticated self diagnostics and if a diagnostic trouble code does not exist then there are no diagnostic flow charts to follow. The technician has access to Chrysler's technical advisers and they can provide guidance online or via telephone. The dealer is right in that they cannot put you in touch with the technical advisers and it is almost unheard of that one will contact the owner to provide technical advise. The dealer can request that a tech adviser come to the dealership to provide assistance - so can the vehicle owner. You would have to be willing to bring the truck and trailer to the dealership, I'm sure.

Don't be so sure that the barking dog gets the bone. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Threats of lawsuits generally make a dealership want to distance themselves from the one doing the threatening. If I didn't work on it then it's not my fault if its broken. If you are not happy with the way the dealership is handling your problem, then try another dealership. Ultimately it will be you in the $120K pile up and ultimately it is up to you to get the problem corrected or stay off the highway.

Steve, have you tried your truck hooked to another comparable trailer? I think that would be more telling than hooking another truck to your trailer. I would also recommend that you ask a qualified technician at a trailer facility to double check your settings and your trailer's braking system.

Just a thought - does your truck have BAS Brake Assist System? From the owners manual. "The BAS detects an emergency braking situation by sensing the rate and amount of brake application and then applies optimum pressure to the brakes. The system applies optimum pressure to the brakes in emergency braking conditions. This can help reduce braking distances. The BAS complements the ABS. Applying the brakes very quickly results in the best BAS assistance." Could this system take the vehicle braking and the trailer braking out of sync in an emergency braking situation? Might be a good question for the technical advisers or engineers.

Good luck with getting your problem solved.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBolton View Post
After reading through these posts, I have some thoughts.

It would not take a very sophisticated piece of equipment to check if there is brake output at the trailer connector simultaneous to pedal application. A jumper wire and a volt meter should do it. Then compare the findings to another similar truck. Note: rear brake lights are not controlled by or through the integrated brake module .

There is a flash update to the controller that addresses sensitivity. From Chrysler TechConnect:

" Updated ITBM software is available on wiTECH for customers who regularly tow a light, or unloaded,trailer. For customers that need a less aggressive braking for low values of gain, to avoid the increased stopping sensitivity; too much braking. This update will also provide a more aggressive calibration for high values of gain."

This flash may or may not apply to your truck. Dealer can tell if you are at the current software level through wiTech (Chrysler diagnostic tool) by looking at the flash files for the ITBM. If available for your truck it may or may not address the problem.

Calling a manufacturers' customer service for this type of an issue is generally futile. The customer service personnel has no technical knowledge and is there solely to facilitate the repair scheduling and reimbursement issues with the dealer. You call customer service, they in turn call the dealer. The dealer provides a response and customer service calls you back. An appointment is made and then customer service stays on top of it to the point that they usually make the vehicle owner and the service adviser at the dealership angry.

The dealer technician has limited ability to diagnose this type of problem. First he has to be certain there is a problem. Then he has to be certain the problem is with the truck and not the trailer, the set up, or connections. Everything from the trailer connector back is probably out of his realm. These new vehicles have sophisticated self diagnostics and if a diagnostic trouble code does not exist then there are no diagnostic flow charts to follow. The technician has access to Chrysler's technical advisers and they can provide guidance online or via telephone. The dealer is right in that they cannot put you in touch with the technical advisers and it is almost unheard of that one will contact the owner to provide technical advise. The dealer can request that a tech adviser come to the dealership to provide assistance - so can the vehicle owner. You would have to be willing to bring the truck and trailer to the dealership, I'm sure.

Don't be so sure that the barking dog gets the bone. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Threats of lawsuits generally make a dealership want to distance themselves from the one doing the threatening. If I didn't work on it then it's not my fault if its broken. If you are not happy with the way the dealership is handling your problem, then try another dealership. Ultimately it will be you in the $120K pile up and ultimately it is up to you to get the problem corrected or stay off the highway.

Steve, have you tried your truck hooked to another comparable trailer? I think that would be more telling than hooking another truck to your trailer. I would also recommend that you ask a qualified technician at a trailer facility to double check your settings and your trailer's braking system.

Just a thought - does your truck have BAS Brake Assist System? From the owners manual. "The BAS detects an emergency braking situation by sensing the rate and amount of brake application and then applies optimum pressure to the brakes. The system applies optimum pressure to the brakes in emergency braking conditions. This can help reduce braking distances. The BAS complements the ABS. Applying the brakes very quickly results in the best BAS assistance." Could this system take the vehicle braking and the trailer braking out of sync in an emergency braking situation? Might be a good question for the technical advisers or engineers.

Good luck with getting your problem solved.
I was told by the dealer that the updated software would make my problem worse, rather than help.

I have towed another trailer with the truck, but it is a 17' Casita, and while it is hardly noticeable (3000 lb trailer behind a 7000 truck), the delay is there. My previous tow vehicle, which did have a factory brake controller (a 2008 GMC 2500) did not have this problem with the same trailer.

I've checked the "User's Guide" that came with my truck, and there is nothing in the index about BAS, or brake assist system.

You are right about the dealer, and Chrysler Customer Service. The Dealer at least will try to help, but CCS just wants to close the "file".
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #121
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So, with this thread on my mind I left last Wednesday and returned just last night (Monday) on a big "final trip of the season" with my 2013 Ram 2500HD Cummings and 2013 Airstream 27FB with Pro Pride Hitch.

Lots of stop and go beach traffic on good ole' 50 heading east to Assateague and again back west to home in Bethesda, with a few good hardy "stops" due to a few traffic lights, ucky drivers, etc. along the way…

Zero Issues in breaking, smooth as butter, could not be any better!

Just my two cents and experiences as I was "Hyper" focused on all braking events during this trip because of this thread.

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Old 11-15-2013, 08:13 PM   #122
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Glad it's working well for you John, but I've got another chapter to add to this story....a couple of day ago I hooked up to a trailer with hydraulic disc brakes (Electric over Hydraulic), and the brakes would not work at all.

The computer in the truck kept saying the brakes weren't hooked up.

Took it to a RV dealer service department, they tested everything, and determined the problem was with the controller. So, to make the controller "see" the brakes, the tech put a 12 volt light bulb in parallel with the brake actuator, and then it sort of worked. I say sort of because the delay with this rig is now about five seconds.

I tried it in light electric over hydraulic, and heavy electric over hydraulic, and the brakes were just stronger in heavy mode, but the excessive delay was still there.
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Old 11-15-2013, 09:29 PM   #123
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Steve,

Seriously...I think it's time to try a stand alone controller.
I don't see how it would effect the Mopar unit if you don't compromise that circuit.
Four wires, ground, power, actuator/brake light and the output to the magnets.
Has the dealer actually told you that it can't/shouldn't be done?

If it was me I'd try it, if for no other reason than the satisfaction gained from the "I knew it" moment when you tell them what fixed it.

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Old 11-16-2013, 11:22 AM   #124
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Steve maybe it is time to look into the lemon law for your state. Lot's of anecdotal stories about folks that got to the proverbial 'straw that broke the camels back' and the manufacturer suddenly got into the game for real.
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Old 11-17-2013, 05:24 PM   #125
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I have been following this mystery, primarily because I had ordered a RAM truck. My truck arrived about 6 weeks ago. 2014 RAM 2500 4x4 CC Laramie with Cummins 6.7L diesel. I hitched it, set up the controller to the "Medium" setting and hoped that Steve's issue wouldn't be mine as well. It wasn't. My rig works perfectly. I've towed around 800 miles now over all kinds of terrain and the RAM/Airstream combo is awesome. Major plus is the exhaust brake. I sure hope that whatever has caused this gets fixed. Too much pain in this sad tale.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:44 PM   #126
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Steve,

What month was your 2012 built? Mine was built in June 2012 and perhaps has the issue you have described in this thread. I felt the side thrust as I took the 25FB to the dealership to trade it in.

We had added an incandescent bulb for each rear brake light so the Mercedes could see a light load that was not generated by the LED lights. That was necessary for the car to go into towing mode. I wonder if those extra bulbs could be causing an issue?

When the new Classic 30 gets here towards the end of January, I will be interested to see what happens when hitting the brakes without the incandescent bulbs in the brake light circuit.

My spare tire is the wireless Tekonsa brake controller I used on the Mercedes. I want to keep the HaHa as the Hensley 2" drop stinger is an exact fit for the airbag suspension and Curt 2,550 pound rated receiver on the truck and keeping the trailer nearly level. The PPP option would be off over an inch.

The reality is one swap out could be a bad replacement. A second swap out could be a better clue if the problem is the controller. Also, check the date code on the replacement controller to ensure it is not the same batch as the current controller.
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