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Old 02-22-2014, 11:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
Ridgerunner3- my trailer, with full water, 3/4 propane, and black and grey tanks empty weighs 5860. That only leaves me 440 for "stuff". The 500# difference between your numbers and mine is what started this thread. I'm coming to the conclusion that it is the furniture mods in the front, but if so then I would think the tongue would be heavier. When your water tank is full, does the pan sag? The bottom of the pan under my water tank is not flat, but is significantly distended. I'm wondering if I have a leak and the pan itself is full of water.
Al, the plastic liner under my fresh water tank sags normally when the tank is empty or full. I don't know if this is typical or not. I believe there are drain holes in the plastic liners under all three tanks so that the liner will drain if water gets in it. The gray and black tank liners do not sag on my rig.

I agree with your thoughts on the furniture also. If weight is added to the front living area you would think that the tongue weight will increase. How many batteries do you have mounted on your trailer?

What brand of hitch do you have mounted to your tongue? Mine is a Propride which adds some weight to the tongue.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #30
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Bud- thanks.

I was actually hoping that maybe it was water in the pan as that would seem pretty easy to fix. I guess that isn't it.

I have an Equal-i-zer so the weight on the tongue is minimal. I have 1 group 27, mounted outside on the tongue in a battery box but it is supposedly included in the unloaded weight per JC.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:06 AM   #31
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Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated
Let Front Axle Load be "FA1" 3170
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1" 3540
Let TT Axles Load be "TT1" 5200

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated (WD bars unloaded, but hanging in place)
Let Front Axle Load be "FA2" 2960
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2" 3900
Let TT Axles Load be "TT2" 5120

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached
Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
{should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct}

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System is Activated = TT1 - TT2



Adjusted CAT ......1-WD On ......2- WD Off........3- TV Only
TV Front ................3170.............2960
TV Rear..................3540.............3900
TT..........................5200.............5120. ..............5860
TV GVW..................6710.............6860........ .......6140

Tongue 720
TT GVW 5920


We're unable to "see" the adjusted empty weight on the TV (scale weight with driver, full fuel and usual stuff aboard as opposed to vehicle manufacturer shipping weight) where FA and RA are on separate scale pads.

While the WD has taken the FA weight up by about 200-lbs (and the expected 100-lbs, approx on TT axles at a 2:1 ratio) we don't know the solo FA weight at which to aim for FALR (front axle load restoration). It may, or may not, be correct.

Scale weights for the TV, as well as manf. ship weights would be good. An overloaded TV is not good. One does not ever exceed tire/wheel ratings as hard rule, the GVWR is a bit softer (braking distance, primarily).

.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:09 AM   #32
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Thanks. The main purpose of this last weight on a CAT scale was to validate the previous weights I took on a moving and storage scale that is much closer to me. I was/am searching for the cause of what looks like a 500# overweight problem after all the known additions to the factory unloaded weight are accounted for like water, propane, and options. If you look at the first post there is a set of weights from the m&s scale that shows the individual TV axle weights. They were not, however taken under the same conditions as the ones on the CAT scale. After I adjust for conditions, the weights for the axles comparable to the CAT scale are: Front-3313, Rear-2753. As you can see I am a couple hundred pounds light on the front to get back to original FAW. I was just starting the process of getting the WD dialed in when I discovered the apparent overweight and started chasing that. For all these measurements the TT was about 2" down at the tongue. I think I've got that right now and I need to go through the rest of the WD setup and weighing process to get it all dialed in at a preliminary camping load. BTW, the TV axle limits are Front-3900 and Rear-3850, with a TV GVWR of 7200. TT has 2 3000# axles (per specs) and GVWR is 6300.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:17 AM   #33
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Slowmover:
BTW the spec unloaded weight for the TT is 4920 and I'm calculating 5481 after subtracting the weight of water, propane, and options from the measured weight of the "unloaded" trailer of 5940.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:31 AM   #34
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The same scale, the same day, for the purposes of using same for formulaic deductions.

The loads on tires, individually, is the only real concern when it comes to vehicles. One dials things down by preserving a 12-15% load margin on each.

That specification met on both vehicles then the more general discussion of GVWR and such is moot. Using guesstimates is just frustration. A day will come when you can find all relevant numbers.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:45 AM   #35
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Same scale same day data in original post

I screwed up with the truck only weight on the CAT scale, didn't get the individual axles. But I think I have convinced myself that the m&s scale gives good enough results. We are finishing a loadout for a 20 mi shakedown tomorrow. I will get a set of loaded numbers on the way and post results here. Hopefully it will show that everything is within reason. Thanks for your help, and that goes to all who have replied.

Al
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:21 PM   #36
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:50 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw photos View Post
And to follow on from what Bud said, the following is from a post made by Ron G, which gives an easy to follow fill-in-the-blank form to tell what the numbers mean. As always, thanks to Ron for this. And now....over to Ron.... :

========

If you want to use the scales data to determine tongue weight, and if you want to get the maximum information about your TV/TT combination and how well your weight distrtibution system is working, you need data from three weighings. Second and third weighings usually are done at a lower cost.

And, you need to find a scales with at least three separate weighing platforms so you can separately measure all three axle loads at the same time. Most, perhaps all, CAT scales have this feature.

If you need any help in interpreting the scales results, just post the numbers. There are several ORF members who can help with the calculations.

First, the TV and TT should be loaded approximately as they would be for camping.

Second, the weight distribution system should be adjusted as it normally would be for towing.

Then, I would do the following:

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated
Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"
Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Then, while in same position on scales, take
Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated (WD bars unloaded, but hanging in place)
Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"
Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take
Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached
Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"
Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
{should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct}

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System is Activated = TT1 - TT2

This procedure should get you on and off the scales fairly quickly and still provide all the data you need.

Super helpful! Thanks Ron
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
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It is possible to over think some things to the point that they steal our joy....


Yeah, but I'm an engineer and that's what we do.

OTOH, I wonder what happened to that 600# of cargo capacity. At least as a result I have become very careful about what I carry and where.

Al
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Old 03-01-2014, 10:00 AM   #39
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Quote:
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OTOH, I wonder what happened to that 600# of cargo capacity. At least as a result I have become very careful about what I carry and where.
Al
Airstreams certainly are a unique travel trailer, but they aren't made for hauling a lot of stuff, that's for sure.
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