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Old 02-20-2014, 06:18 PM   #15
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For my own trips over the scales, since with my pickup trucks, I have to be out of the cab to reach the call button, I always make sure I am standing off the platform when asking for the weight.
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:13 PM   #16
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Here are adjusted CAT weights and my conclusions

I adjusted the CAT weights for the apparent error of weighing while I was still standing on the scale. I didn't get separate TV axle weights in 3, only gross for the TV and TT . The CAT numbers, when adjusted for measurement differences, are within spitting distance of the numbers from the moving and storage scale.

I asked how to handle the separate weighs and they said doing it on the scale was OK. As I was doing the last weigh I got a couple of semis behind me. Next time I'll go around.


Adjusted CAT ......1-WD On ......2- WD Off........3- TV Only
TV Front ................3170.............2960
TV Rear..................3540.............3900
TT..........................5200.............5120. ..............5860
TV GVW..................6710.............6860........ .......6140

Tongue 720
TT GVW 5920
TT "extras". 504 full water, propane and tanks, microwave, LCD TV, battery
"Unloaded" 5416 Actual
"Unloaded" 4920 Spec
Overweight 496

I suppose it is possible that replacing the gaucho with two recliners and some storage furniture added nearly 500# but that seems like a lot.

Comments?
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:55 AM   #17
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Clothing - any woman will tell you that you only weigh yourself with your shoes off, and no heavy clothing on. Preferably in underwear. Weight without shoes will be 2 lbs. less than with - without a jacket, sweater, sweatshirt - or a pocket full of coins, a pocketknife and keys - almost another 2 lbs.

Look at the clothing you store in the Airstream. I'll bet you have 20-25 lbs per person. And I'll also bet that about 7-10 lbs you wear all the time, and the rest languishes in closets, drawers and plastic containers. Kitchen crap is one of my weaknesses. I got rid of about 20 lbs of stuff with the new Airstream.

The little stuff adds up. Edit it ruthlessly.

Paula
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:32 PM   #18
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You have to be careful picking and choosing data from different sources, even from one set of CAT weighs to another as neither I nor the scale operator were diligent about controlling conditions. IMO the best data to use is my last posted adjusted set. Depending on how you calculate it, tongue weight comes around 700#.

Nevertheless I concur that I need to dial in a little FA weight. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the trailer was a little tongue down for these measurements. I have corrected that and now I need to readjust the WD. Thanks for looking. When I get it dialed in I'll take another data set and post it.

Al
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:02 PM   #19
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Al,
From your posted numbers from the CAT scale, I was unsure how you obtained the weight of the truck, in weighing three. Was it on the scales by itself, with the trailer totally off the scales ?
That is why I was attempting to use your previous day numbers of the truck alone.

Again, just to reiterate, ( mostly for a new person looking at this for the first time ) my procedure is this:

first weigh is as I arrive at scales, truck, trailer, WD hooked up.

drive off scales, disconnect weight bars, take second weigh pass.

drive off scales, disconnect trailer, leave in parking lot, take third pass truck only.
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Old 02-21-2014, 03:15 PM   #20
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What is your GVW and axle load on the trailer sideplate? I have found listed empty trailer weight to not be a useful number. Our 25', 1988 Excella has a GVW of 6800 lbs and a axle loading of 6300 lbs. I just walked to the next site and read the tag on the mid 90's 25' next door. It says 8800 lbs GVW. So your number sounds awful low to begin with. When we are on the road we have 5600 lbs on the trailer axles. I have not done the other weights.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:11 PM   #21
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Trailer label

The trailer GVWR is 6300#. The plate says the GAWR is 3000# per axle. This doesn't make too much sense to me since the specs say the tongue weight is 680#. If the GVWR is 6300# and the axles are rated for 6000# that only leaves 300# for the tongue. At one time these analyses used to take into account unsprung weight, in this case 4 wheels and tires. I've seen numbers around 55# per tire so you might add 220#, but that weight only shows up on the scales and doesn't stress the trailer systems except for brakes. If one was going to set the tongue weight at 15% of the trailer GVW, then you would have only 85% of 6300# on the axles, or 5355#, this on a 6000# rated axle system. Even at the low end of 10% on the tongue (630#), the axles would only carry 5670#. It appears that at a reasonable tongue load one would not be able to even get close to the GAWR.

I'm pretty well convinced that my numbers are as accurate as the measurements, or within about 50#. I guess if we have any issues I'll start by draining the fresh water tank down to a few gallons.

First load will happen tomorrow and will weigh the combo in camping configuration, and then adjust as required.

Al
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:38 AM   #22
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Al - I may have this wrong but I think the GVWR an GAWR just tell you the limits. When the trailer leaves the factory it could actually weigh 1500# (random guess) less than GVWR giving you carry capacity. That's why scale measurements like the method Ron G has outlined are so important.

Tongue weight wouldn't be limited to the difference between those two limits, rather, it should be about 10-15% of your loaded for camping actual weight (and you can control/adjust that by moving stuff in front of or behind the trailer axles).

So let's say fully loaded your trailer is 5000#. You'd want to see 500-750# on the tongue.

Load her up, get her to the scales and follow Ron's procedure. Write what you do on each of the tickets and then post pics of that here. You'll get tons of good info! Then camp like crazy and enjoy the heck out of your rig! :-)
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Old 02-22-2014, 07:45 AM   #23
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Al, for a point of reference, I have a 2002 Safari 25 with a rear queen. My trailer is rated for 6300# gross. From the CAT scales, using Ron's process, my TT axle weight is 5360# and my tongue weight is 940#. That is with a full 39 gallon water tank, full 30# propane tanks, empty black & gray tanks, a Propride hitch, loaded and ready for camping. My trailer has no added furniture other than a "Classic Type" folding table for the curb side of the sofa. I travel heavy and need to remove some of the accumulated stuff stored here and there in the TT.

I thought weights from a similar trailer may be useful to you.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:28 AM   #24
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Ridgerunner3- my trailer, with full water, 3/4 propane, and black and grey tanks empty weighs 5860. That only leaves me 440 for "stuff". The 500# difference between your numbers and mine is what started this thread. I'm coming to the conclusion that it is the furniture mods in the front, but if so then I would think the tongue would be heavier. When your water tank is full, does the pan sag? The bottom of the pan under my water tank is not flat, but is significantly distended. I'm wondering if I have a leak and the pan itself is full of water.

SteveSueMac- my point about the difference between the GVWR and GAWR, expressed another way was if the GVWR is 6300# and I put 750# on the tongue, then the axles will be carrying 5550#. I guess what I'm saying is that the limiting factor in the GVWR must be something other than the axles.

Gmw photos- for the third weigh, both axles of the truck were on the drive axle scale pad and the complete trailer, i.e. Axles and tongue jack were on the trailer pad.

I guess I'm going to have to learn to travel light or go back to the gaucho arrangement, but I just don't see two recliners and some oak storage bins adding 500#.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:08 AM   #25
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Well Al, in the end, it sounds like the trailer axles, and perhaps the rear axle of the truck are going to be the parts that are closest to their stated limits. I suppose if the axle rubbers are still in good shape, then it makes sense to just keep running them and watch for odd tire wear ?
If the axles are rubbers are getting sacked out, then it might be worth looking at the idea of replacing them, and stepping up to maybe 3500 pound axles ? I don't know, and will admit I am mostly just guessing on that, because I suppose the idea of these trailers needing a soft ride may play into that decision.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:09 AM   #26
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At any scale you can pull axles onto the scale one at a time, simple addition and subtraction can give a person all the information they need.

As the current owner of an 80 foot truck scale, and with a history of using scales all across this nation, I can say with no equivocation that the notion that a CAT truck scale can be automatically assumed accurate is faulty.

A moving company that uses their scale daily in a manner directly related to their livelihood has a strong interest in having an accurate scale at all times.

When scales get out of wack, it is usually a.result of an impact on a platform side rail or a very abrupt start or stop on a platform.

Heavy use will tend to increase the chances of a scale being imprecise.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:17 AM   #27
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What you are saying here is why some of us buy three quarter or one ton trucks. No way could I overload my truck. Better for the trailer to be within safety limits and the truck to be closer to its payload. My cummins has a payload of 3500 pounds., I think some newer ones are higher. Of course I enjoy driving a truck, some do not. I carry a lot of camping gear,that would fit in the trailer,in the bed of my truck, covered of course. This takes the strain off the trailer. If the AS is overloaded then some of the baggage can go into the TV if it can handle the load. Also sometimes running with a full water tank can tax the tank supports. Jim
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:06 AM   #28
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Zigzagguzzi- I knew I might be close on the truck payload, but I decided to take that chance. I'm fine on GCVWR, around 2000# margin or more. I think I'd be fine if the unloaded weight of my trailer were close to the factory spec, but it looks to be 560# over what it should after accounting for all fluids and options. I may be able to live with it, but with only 400# left over for my "stuff" as in clothes, dishes, cookware, food, etc. it looks like a challenge. As a ridiculous exaggeration, I don't want to have to go to the truck to get something to cook for dinner, or a change of clothes. Problem is I'm such a newb that I don't yet know what all I need and/or want to carry.

Al
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