I would want to see certified copies of fuel receipts and notorized statements about the milage before I would believe that anyone gets 15 mpg pulling a 39' fiver anywhere at any time.
Just telling you what he told me. Now understand the camper is one that has a "garage" to pull a dune buggy inside so it's a LOT lighter then a fully decked out. The rear 17 or so feet is empty with four fold out bunks. They haul ATV's with their's. I know he brought 2 ATV's do figure about 800 or so pounds for those.
He's made simular runs in his 94 pre power stroke truck and was surprised by how much better the MPG was with the 2002 he has now. He felt lucky when he got 12 with the old truck.
I may have over estimated the lenght. Here is a picture where you can see it in the back ground.
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1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
We weren't considering an E250 because it wasn't listed on the Ford website so we thought it was no longer being made. But when I checked a local Ford dealer's website there were several E250 vans in the inventory. We would prefer a cargo van. I inherited the Club Wagon and we were going to try to make do with it. The Rhino lining sounds interesting, but would it provide insulation? Thank you for the Towing Guide website. I'll check it out.
I've been following the responses to your original question about towing with the E-150 Van. I agree with those who told you to reconsider. however, the E250 HD with factory towing package should be OK, and certainly an appropriately equipped E350 would be more than enough! Check out Trailer Life Magazine's 2003 tow ratings at Trailerlife.com. They publish these every year and the recent issue's results could be pulled up from their achives to give you further information.
59toaster, a diesel will do much better on a gallon of fuel, but there are limits. Some people (and when I say "some people", I mean my dad) are pretty careless about calculating fuel milage - think of all the people you know who had trouble with math in school. "Hmmm, let's see, 327.2 miles, 27.2 gallons, must be about 15 mpg." But the biggest problem is that diesel foams so badly when filling that it is hard to be really accurate over a single, or even two or three fill-ups. I have a couple of fuel receipts which suggest I have gotten as high as 15.6 mpg towing. But I suspect those were cases where I filled it a gallon or so light.
you will find a lot of people with good knowledge of Ford as tow vehicles here, but I would advise you to check the Ford Diesel Forum too. (just because more people=more experience=more opinions... obviously) E-Series Vans
Over 30,000 Ford owners. (some have gas engines too). Some of them are real fanatic and own several Fords at the same time. Great way to compare vehicles.
A lot of posts will be of interest to you, I found this one right away: Re: Need Help Deciding on New E Van
Where someone posted:
"I have owned 3 E-150's and now have a 2000 E-350. The ride of the 350 is not as smooth as the 150, but is comfortable. The handling of the 350 is far superior to the 150 as is the braking (4 wheel discs vs the drum/disc combo). " Most of of the discussion does not fit your case, but you can always learn a few things from the rest.
You can always benefit by a lot of talks about MPG, 150vs 250 vs 350. A lot of that. Example: New buyer needs advice
Maurice
We fooled you on this one: me, Chantal, started the post,... but I just parroted something Mike had sent to somebody else one day . I just collect info. He was a mechanic a long time ago, worked on diesel trucks and sport cars, so I rely on his analizis of situations.... usualy painfully slowwww. So I rarely ask him to comment on a point, or we'd still be there next week. I know his opinion on bigger brakes
I don't have the '98 specs, but the '03 specs have the trailer package standard.
As most might have said, the van is on the high water mark. I believe it will work and I think Toasters comments of going to a 3.73 gear would make it even more suitable. There is little reason you need to walk from your current tow vehice unless you want to. Would it help, sure, but there are things you can do to the existing van without getting rid of it.
The Safari 6 sleeper is rated at 6300lbs gross and the specs on your van are rated at 6100 with the gears you have and the 4.6L. Given these nunbers I believe you can tow this Safari successfully. I would make sure you have the trailer package that Ford offered and make sure the cooling system is up to par for both the engin and the trans.
The difference between what Ford rates and what the Safari weighs is close, but I do not think that there are ANY saftey issues with what you are doing if you get the proper equipment (hitch, weight distribution, sway, trailer brake controller, cooling, not drive as in the Indy 500). If you exceed 6500lbs, I think you need to revisit the issue, but for a few hundred pounds I know you are going to be just fine. People tend to freak out if you go 1 pound over the manufac suggested spec. I don't agree entirely and although I am not an avocate of doing stupid things, I believe that a few hundred pounds is not an issue in your case. Again, I would make sure the cooling is in order and make sure your brakes are up to snuff, but I see no problem doing what you are planning. I actually think your rig would be safer than some others that are on this forum and if you are going to listen to advise, I would pay closer attention to people that know cars very well and towing. I've been doing this sort of stuff for over 15 years and some of the people that have posted, I also would take their advice. Use your best judgement and be safe.
The "250" is only on the commercial vans, and by it's 7200# GVWR, I'd say it ISN'T a Superduty, but based on what used to be the non-Heavy-Duty F250, that's now more appropriately named F150 with 7700 lb suspension, i.e. the 7 lug wheels, etc. In other words, I'd skip it.
I'd definitely NOT get the extended van since it doesn't increase wheelbase but does increase overhang.
As Mark mentioned, since mid-year 2001 production, the F250 and single-rear wheel F350 are essentially the same truck, except they jack up the rear of the SRW F350 with 3.5" blocks between the rear axles and springs to make it LOOK less loaded down. Most F250s have the same tires as the SRW F350, either as an option or standard on the F250 Lariet, but on the 250's, these tires, which are max inflation of 80 psi, are spec'ed to run at 70 psi, so the F250 would FEEL like it was softer. The GVWR of the F250 is 8800 and the SRW F350 is 9900 with the same components.
In other words, the E350 at 9400# GVWR probably has the same suspension as the F250 and SRW F350. It's firm, but not bad when empty, and perfect when towing. I run the rear tires down to 60 psi when not towing (and the fronts up to 60 psi).
The Rhino Lining might not be as quite or as good for heat or cold as the factory insulation package.
Keep in mind, the fewer windows, the less solar gain for the AC to have to deal with. Same can be said for "privacy glass" or a white or light vehicle, and I'm really partial to the silver truck with an Airstream.
That's the neat thing about a cargo van... you can customize it to carry what you want, including making secure areas to carry some Honda generators, etc.
As far as your money with the dealer for the towing stuff, I'd try to get it refunded, and order the Ford factory receiver hitch in addition to the towing package with the new van. Even though you're gonna wind up with a tow vehicle that weighs more than the trailer, I'd still recommend a Hensley hitch. They're awesome.
A Nissan Quest can be more than suitable, as you will find out in many previous posts, so all this big & bigger discussion is misleading.
Your Ford van is quite enough. Don't panic & get influenced, ask a REAL professional for advice before spending big bucks.
Armchair specialists don't always know best
"Fortunately, Ford isn't putting the new, but buggy, 6.0L PSD in the E350 vans yet, because the van requires a special version of the diesel engine."
Roadking,
What do you mean by "buggy"? Is there a problem with the new 6.0 liter Powerstroke? I am not ready for a new truck yet but have been watching the development of the new PSD engine.
As for the E150 that princem has the only thing I don't like about it is the 4.6 engine. Not enough torque but should do the job.
By "buggy" I mean about the same thing that you get with version X.0 of anything. If you read the dieselstop website, as well as some of the towing forums on other sites, I think you'll get the picture that this engine is having a bit more than the normal teething pains. I'm sure that it'll be a fine setup once they get the bugs worked out, but I wouldn't buy one now.
I don't think any of us really know how Millie's existing van will do with a loaded 25C, but she has the info on getting it weighed, and seeing where it is with respect to the limits.
In the end, it's probably lookin' at LT tires, new shocks, perhaps airbags, not to mention an axle ratio change (and I'd go with 4.10:1 given the 1000 rpm higher torque peak of the 4.6L compared to the 5.4L) if towing in the hills will be involved.
Originally posted by qqq A Nissan Quest can be more than suitable, as you will find out in many previous posts, so all this big & bigger discussion is misleading.
Your Ford van is quite enough. Don't panic & get influenced, ask a REAL professional for advice before spending big bucks.
Armchair specialists don't always know best
Hart
I agree with Hart on everything in this post. On Jupiter or Mars the Nissan Quest "can be more than suitible" due to the low gravity and less weight. On this planet however, gravity and weights being what they are, you'll find the majority of folks here would disagree that a Nissian Quest or any other car with similar size, build and power should be used to pull 6300lbs. The Quest weighs signigicantly less than 6300lbs where as the Ford in question is in the ballpark.
I don't consider the majority of the comments on this particular thread armchair either. I think there are some great posts here. I do think there are one or two armchair captains on this thread, but you can figure those out for yourself, the bulk are full of good advise.
Earlier in this thread was the question :- "It's frightening to discover how little we know about all this. Can anyone recommend reading material on the subject-RVing for Dummies-perhaps"
I recently picked up a copy of this book in a public library. I opened it at random and saw a diagram entitled "Weight distibuting hitch." The diagram showed a standard hitch bolted to a frame, and it had "extra" bolts attaching it to the frame, (to distribute the weight?). No bars, nothing. So the author thinks that's a weight distributing hitch! I hurriedly put the book back on the shelf. Others may be able to recommend more suitable books, but a good start is to study and search this site, and ask the many wonderful, helpful people on this site when you need extra explanation. An enormous archive of Airstream material is available at http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Trailers2.html. A treasure trove of experienced wisdom is at www.phrannie.org. Good luck. Nick.
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Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
After 3 1/2 ton tow units ('89-Chevy Astro/V-6, '94-F-150/4.9l-I-6, & a '00-1500-5.3l/V-8, the last 2 had air-bag suspension systems installed after market-all had original or after-mkt trans. coolers) we purchased an F-250 with the 7.3l diesel as our next tow unit. I did a lot of research into this decision as price was a concern but safety was a must. We used to tow sailboats around quite a bit and learned from those experiences. We are about to get a 25' Safari and plan to spend about 180 days a year on-the-road with it, we currently tow a 17' @ 3500lbs CAT cert. weight. The 7.3 F250 has a 3.73 ratio as opposed to the 350 with the 4.11's, approx. 9% less revs/mph. It is true that foaming can give you unrealistic readings on mpg but over 15K miles I have carefully calculated my mileage to be 17.3/7 mpg hwy when driven close to 2K rpm in o/d. When towing the 17'er through hills & sm. mtns. it drops to 12-13 mpg, level approx. 14-15. If I put my toe in it, less. The 7.3 is the last of the non-exhust gas recirculator diesels from Ford since the gvmt. regs went into effect in Nov. '02. The problems that are showing up in ALL the new diesels, Duramax, Cummins, and Ford are due to these new design requirements and the usual lag time in dealing with them. I shopped a long time to find a pre-11/'02 diesel because of that. The new diesels also use a dual-injection per power stroke scheme to reduce noise, also mandated by EPA. These are two major changes that will take time to work-out IMO! ...BUT I believe it is hard to beat a diesel as a tow vehicle, besides 300-500K miles of expected & usual life.
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