Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-27-2006, 03:04 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
FreshAir's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
Placerville , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,327
Images: 2
I was given an old Equalizer WDH with #1000 bars set-up by my neighbor. I thought for sure the #1000 bars would be too much. I went with it on a couple of short trips with our Tradewind and it was a very comfortable ride and tow. So I read up on the bar weights on some posts in the Search engine and it seamed my set up was appropiate. My tow vehicle is a '71 Buick convertible that is as heavy and nearly as long as the Tradewind. So Andy has just vindicated my WDH #1000 bars Thanks.
Neil.
__________________

__________________
Neil and Lynn Holman
FreshAir #12407

Avatar;
Kirk Creek, Big Sur, Ca. coast.

1966 Trade Wind

1971 Buick Centurion convertible
455 cid

1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
455 cid
FreshAir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 03:33 PM   #16
3 Rivet Member
 
dbradhstream's Avatar
 
2006 28' Safari SE
Winter Park , Florida
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 150
28' safari 'o6 + 1/2 ton Chev Avalanche + 1000 lb bars = happy.
__________________

__________________
'06 28' Safari SE / '08 Chev 2500HD Duramax
'64 Me / '60's-ish wife / '90's kids / '06 Black Lab / '02 Poodle / oh, and a horse, too.

GO GATORS!!
dbradhstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 03:40 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
clancy_boy's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Images: 8
Alright - correct me if I'm wrong.

I have the (new to me) 2003 22' International CCD, 2002 F250 Diesel with the 1000# Reese Dual Cam bars - My question is TOO MUCH??????

Thanks for the replys.

Mike

BTW - I towed the 66 Caravel with no bars - handled perfectly fine.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ
The family has grown.
2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
clancy_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 04:01 PM   #18
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbradhstream
28' safari 'o6 + 1/2 ton Chev Avalanche + 1000 lb bars = happy.
If your bars are not bending about an inch, then they are too heavy.

You should have 750 pound bars.

Also, you might try riding in the front of the coach at about 60 miles an hours over a road that's not too smooth.

You will probably find the front end of the trailer is getting pounded.

All research data says it will.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 04:04 PM   #19
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy_boy
Alright - correct me if I'm wrong.

I have the (new to me) 2003 22' International CCD, 2002 F250 Diesel with the 1000# Reese Dual Cam bars - My question is TOO MUCH??????

Thanks for the replys.

Mike

BTW - I towed the 66 Caravel with no bars - handled perfectly fine.
Mike.

I settled with the estate of the two people that got killed doing the same thing that you formally did.

You cannot safely tow without a load equalizing hitch.

Your bars should bend almost one inch. If not then you are over hitched.

With a 250 truck, you should have bars rated at 550 pounds, no more.
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 04:08 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
TomW's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,918
Images: 2
Andy's not blowing smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
I continue to see many owners "over hitching" like big time.

Over hitching, "does not" give superior performance.

Secondly, in time, it will tear up the front end of your Airstream...
From my vaaaaast experience lo these past three camping seasons, I will side with Andy on this one.

Up until two months ago, my 3/4-ton Suburban towed my 26' Airstream with 1000 pound spring bars because those were the bars that came with my Overlander. The previous owner towed with a similar Suburban, and had had all his hitch work done at an Airstream dealership. By virtue of matching tow vehicles, I thought I was covered too.

I had never towed with a weight distributing hitch before, so anything unusual about the ride was attributed to the hitch's idiosyncrasies. Luckily for my Airstream, I read a thread contributed to by Andy on this topic, and now use 550 pound spring bars.

The ride is now significantly better.

I say "luckily" for my Airstream because my A-frame is bent, and I believe the damage is due to the years of 1000 pound spring bar use.

Tom
TomW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 04:17 PM   #21
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
From my vaaaaast experience lo these past three camping seasons, I will side with Andy on this one.

Up until two months ago, my 3/4-ton Suburban towed my 26' Airstream with 1000 pound spring bars because those were the bars that came with my Overlander. The previous owner towed with a similar Suburban, and had had all his hitch work done at an Airstream dealership. By virtue of matching tow vehicles, I thought I was covered too.

I had never towed with a weight distributing hitch before, so anything unusual about the ride was attributed to the hitch's idiosyncrasies. Luckily for my Airstream, I read a thread contributed to by Andy on this topic, and now use 550 pound spring bars.

The ride is now significantly better.

I say "luckily" for my Airstream because my A-frame is bent, and I believe the damage is due to the years of 1000 pound spring bar use.

Tom
That comes from a satisfied Airstreamer, who has been on both sides of the issue.

I should have added, that an excessive rated hitch, will also bend the A-frame.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 05:23 PM   #22
2 Rivet Member
 
2007 20' Safari
San Diego , California
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
I continue to see many owners "over hitching" like big time.

Over hitching, "does not" give superior performance.

Secondly, in time, it will tear up the front end of your Airstream.

The following was tested, retested and proven to work the best, over and over again, some 36 years ago and still holds true.

Regardless of the size Airstream trailer, as long as it has between 450 to 1000 pounds tongue weight, the correct hitch ratings are:

Old style large cars 1000 pound bars.

1/2 ton truck 750 pound bars.

3/4 ton truck 550 pound bars.

1 ton trucks do the best you can.

Adding overloads defeats the purpose of the hitch and will contribute to trailer front end damage as well as contribute to sway.

Air bags or air lifts, inflated more than the minimum pressure will also progressively defeat the purpose of the hitch and cause trailer front damage as well.

The hitch bars should easily deflect up and down and inch or so. If they don't then your rig is over hitched.

There are exceptions, but very rare ones. One is a tow vehicle that also has a heavy payload, without the trailer. But if it does, it must stay that way everytime you tow.

Different size trailers, different types of tow vehicles were used, along with truck scales during those tests.

Andy

Andy, Just got off of the phone with what sounded like a very knowledgeable tech rep wiith Progersive Manufacturing, The makers of the Equal-I-zer hitch and then saw this thread. He explained sizing of their product as follows:
1 The tongue weight is the most critical # and GVWR is secondary
2 Their hitches are adjustable for lighter loading of tongue weight but not heavier.
My understanding of his explanation was that this was done through adjusting the hitch ball angulation with the use of supplied spacers to "dial in" the exact amount of tension needed. If you bought a unit too small for the application you would be out of luck as there is no adjusting in that direction. Therefore buy the next larger size if your dry tongue weight was near or at their numbers.

Now, this stuff isn't exactly up my ally but after chating back and forth with nickcrowhurst and studying his equations I tried to ask the tech some intelligent questions and approached the problem of over hitching from every angle I could think of. Bottom line was that his strong recomendation for my new 20'Safarie SE [per specs, tongue wt 600# GVWR 5,000#] was to go with their 10,000#/1,000# set up and then adjust it down through proper installation to the needed tension for the actual tongue weight. I also told him my TV was an F250 diesel. On the surface this looks like over hitching but according to the tech it is not. In fact he said if I thought I was moving up to a larger tailer in the near future I could go with their 12,000# set up and there still wouldn't be a problem. [That won't be happening for me]
Andy, I have read a number of your posts and have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge. If you had the time and inclination would you give Progresive Manufacturing a call and clear up their sizing protocal for all of us Equal-I-zer users out here who don't know the proper questions to ask or what to get.
The tech I spoke to was Josh. The local # was [801]377-9599 and a toll free # of [800]4578-5578.
I think I can safely say thanks from all of us for your past and continued help, Jerry
__________________
3DogNight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 05:38 PM   #23
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
kudos 3dog'

for making the call...

2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 06:22 PM   #24
Site Team
 
azflycaster's Avatar
 
1975 25' Tradewind
Dewey , Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 12,124
Images: 62
Blog Entries: 1
Reese 750 lb bars - Toyota Tundra / 75 Trade Wind. Works well, nice ride.
__________________

Richard

Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
azflycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 06:28 PM   #25
4 Rivet Member
 
campadk's Avatar
 
2007 19' Bambi
Ottawa , Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 458
I was concerned about over hitching and opted for 600lb equalizer for our 19ft Bambi and Yukon.
campadk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 06:32 PM   #26
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DogNight
. Andy, I have read a number of your posts and have a lot of respect for you and your knowledge. If you had the time and inclination would you give Progresive Manufacturing a call and clear up their sizing protocal for all of us Equal-I-zer users out here who don't know the proper questions to ask or what to get.
Jerry.

We talked with all the hitch manufacturers back in 1970 and then again in a1971, regarding what they are telling users.

We assured them that the data we had (Caravanner Insurance Company), demonstrated otherwise.

We also told them that since the front end of an Airstream flexes, a rigid hookup was damaging to the trailer as well as to the A-frame. We informed them that our field tests, which were all documented, also said otherwise.

They basically said that from a "liability" point of view, they were "not" going to change what they tell owners.

It's indeed sad, that our ways of doing business sometimes today, is governed by attorneys instead of what ought to be.

Since Caravanner Insurance is a thing of the past, then for me as an individual to attempt to appraoch them today, I think would be a waste of time.

Each owner must then judge for themselves, which way they wish to go.

Historically, the front end of any Airstream and it's sheetmetal will be damaged if over hitched.

Handling is also compromised when over hitched in that the rigging is supposed to reasonably flex and not be as rigid as a piece of railroad track.
Logic bears that out. Rigid rigging will kick the tow vehicle back up very quickly as opposed to the desired cushion effect when hitting a bump. That is typically when a loss of control accident happens, especially on wet pavement or snow. The over hitching effect is like the kids that have low rider cars. We all see what a rigid setup does to them.

Some owners have experienced the effect of over hitching and have made changes. Without exception, they have never said that the changes caused a negative effect. Some have not made those changes, but their day will come when they see the damages that over hitching has caused.

We have repaired a huge number of trailers that had front end damaged caused by over hitching.

Our interest is simple safety and extending information where an owner can save time and money by not unintentionally or unknowingly damaging the trailer.

Common sense again says that a cushioned ride is far superior to a rigid ride. The same goes for the rigging or hitching.

All auto manufacturers today, play the liability game. Many years ago, cars towed Airstreams without much of a problem. Today the auto manufacturers all insist on using a tow vehicle that could tow the Queen Mary. Why???

Simple.

Liability.

And so it is.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 07:10 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
bradk's Avatar
 
2006 19' International CCD
Calgary , Alberta
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 187
Images: 14
I had a lengthy discussion with 2 techs at Equal-i-zer and was told to go with a 1k/10k setup for my bambi for the same reasons as 3dog described.

I had to take an extra look at this thread to realize that Reese and other brands have made their way into this thread. For clarity, on an Equal-i-zer hitch, over-hitching appears not to be a significant issue but is with others?

I appreciate your perspective Andy, has that discussion been had for current models of trailer/hitches vs. 1970's?

b.

edit: sp
__________________
Team Ironcops for Cancer 2006
Raced! Ironman Canada in support of the Canadian Cancer Society
www.ironcopsforcancer.com

We raised over 1.3 Million dollars for Cancer Reseach this year. Great job team!!
bradk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2006, 07:16 PM   #28
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradk
I had a lengthy discussion with 2 techs at Equal-i-zer and was told to go with a 1k/10k setup for my bambi.

I had to take an extra look at this thread to realize that Reese and other brands have made their way into this thread. For clarity, on an Equal-i-zer hitch, over-hitching appears not to be a significant issue but is with others?

I appreciate your perspective Andy, has that discussion been had for current models of trailer/hitches vs. 1970's?

b.
The tests done in 1970 and 1971, clearly demostrated that "every" load equalizing hitch made in the USA, could and did contribute to the over hitching problem.

The brand doesn't matter. What matters is the rating of the bars.

Each hitch manufacturer will tell you what ever they choose, just to avoid the issue.

Again, "ALL" brands can cause the same issue.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hensley Arrow Hitch Les Hitches, Couplers & Balls 116 12-14-2015 08:41 AM
Hitch size Jim Sease Hitches, Couplers & Balls 16 10-12-2010 11:04 AM
Hitch problem wyhjr Hitches, Couplers & Balls 8 07-22-2002 06:29 PM
Hitch inspections 83Excella Hitches, Couplers & Balls 3 07-09-2002 04:05 PM
Handy hitch step Pahaska Our Community 0 06-26-2002 06:44 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.