Ownership Poll

[Denis4x4]

Many of the threads here relating to AS quality (or lack thereof) have their defenders as well as their detractors. In looking at the responses and then checking the poster's profile, it seems that a lot of the pro AS people have older units as well as vintage trailers. While it might seem rather harsh, I think that those people that have done a frame off restoration or have had the same AS for 15 or 20 years and worked out the kinks over time do not understand the QC concern of owners with newer units.

Looking forward to some interesting posts on this subject.

[dkottum]

Our new 2007 Airstream sat on the lot for two years when we bought it new in 2009, we inspected and found a number of issues related to tire-kickers, dealer fixed them all and it was a good trailer.

Our new 2012 Airstream was new fresh from the factory, we inspected thoroughly including a leak check and did not find a single issue. In three (over 20 months traveling in it) issues have arisen due to use and we have fixed them as they occurred, most through warranty.

We converted the living space for comfortable reclining seating, installed a ProPride hitch for towing comfort and safety, and Michelin 16" tires/Sendel wheels for reliability. It has factory solar and full awnings for convenience and comfort.

From the purchase of the 2012 we started a quarterly inspection and systems check, leak test, and corrosion treatment program. It has kept our Airstream in excellent condition and us very happy with it.

[Protagonist]

Nothing is perfect, not even an Airstream. They're built by people; young people who are still on their way up the learning curve, older people who have crested the learning curve and are if full swing, and real old-timers who have been "doing this since before you were born, sonny, so don't tell me how to do my job."

It may come as a surprise to people who expect an American institution like Airstream to have an institutional memory going all the way back to Wally Byam his own self, but the institutional memory of the workforce is only as old as the guy who was hired before anybody else. And as each old-timer retires, the institutional memory gets truncated.

Back in the days when the vintage trailers were built, the workforce still included people who were born and raised in the Great Depression, and everyone, from the CEO to the consumer, expected that anything built should last a lifetime or beyond.

These days, those Depression-era workers are long gone. Everyone, from the CEO to the consumer, has been born and raised in an affluent society that is perfectly willing to discard stuff that still has useable life left to it so they can buy newer and flashier stuff. Most companies quit building things that last, because it was wasted money and wasted effort to build something that will last 50 years if it's going to be discarded in 10.

In that regard, even the newer Airstreams have a longevity that far exceeds the norm. Even an Airstream bought brand-new today should be able to last long enough to eventually become vintage. It might take more upkeep to reach that point, but still…

If you buy a new Airstream today, you can expect someone to still be camping in in in 25 years. You can't say that about many other recreational vehicles, where a ten-year life is pushing the limit, as evidenced by the number of campgrounds that forbid trailers more than 10 years old due to their general decrepitude.

[dkottum]

Protagonist, excellent and thoughtful post. We have also noted that old Airstreams well-kept are exempted from the 10 year-old-rule.

[CDONA]

My time in the rv/moble home mfg. (early 70's), new hires went to the production line for OJT. This is where the small errors in mfg. are made and hopefully caught by QC. These new hires usually replaced a senior assembler who is now stuck in rework full time fixing the issues found in QC. The senior guys get cross trained from fixing all aspects in the assembly, (plumbing, elect., walls, trim, leaks). This is why an owner gets excellent repairs when they return to the mothership. These guys have the reputation on getting 'r done, management isn't watching them as close as the production line, (speed first, then try to attain quality). These guys get the sense of accomplishment of a complex job done right, and the direct feedback from a happy customer.

[Landrum]

I started our AS quest looking to restore a vintage, and I researched the subject for a year more or less. Ultimately we purchased a 2 year old new AS (and have since traded up to brand new). I have more money than time and wanted to start camping with our kids sooner than later. Because of my research I purchased new "eyes wide open" about the various issues. I was willing to accept those potential issues, and we have been very happy with our AS and the AS community.

Originally Posted by Protagonist

In that regard, even the newer Airstreams have a longevity that far exceeds the norm. Even an Airstream bought brand-new today should be able to last long enough to eventually become vintage. It might take more upkeep to reach that point, but still…

I'm curious....are you saying/thinking the new ones will take more upkeep than vintage AS?

I listend to the VAP, and on more than one occasion Tim and Collin have implied newer AS have a "planned obsolescence" (their words) in their design/construction. They have even stated than since the newer AS shells are assembled in sections they are inferior to vintage which were assembled one rib at a time. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't agree.

[Panama Red]

I can say, I wish I had got my hands on my camper when it was only 8 years old, instead of 38. I'd have preferred to do the preventive maintenance on it, rather than the remedial.

As a vintage (if you can call 1974 vintage) owner, I understand your QC concerns. As an Airstream fanboy, I hope the mothership is taking steps to correct their problems. I am glad to see the expansion of the facility. Maybe with more production capability, they'll be able to slow down a snudge on each trailer and do it right the first time.

However, I agree with what others have said here. As an owner of quite a few other campers, Airstream does seem to put out a pretty good product. But, just being better than the other guys shouldn't be your benchmark.

I worry for them, that they're doing as Mercedes and BMW are doing, resting on their reputation, while allowing their quality to slide. And, for all you Mercedes/BMW fanatics, sorry, but you know it's true. They aren't the cars they were...

Decrepitude... I like that word. Will have to work that into conversation somewhere.

-Red

[dznf0g]

Mine is a 2007....first AS, 3rd trailer. I keep my trailers a long time and see how they age, etc. AS is superior in many materials, the same in many component choices, and the same in workmanship as both of my others.

I am neither an advocate of AS quality, nor a detractor. I am realistic of the RV industry.
The industry could learn a lot, before foreign companies teach it to them the hard way...like the auto industry of the 70s and 80s.

[Panama Red]

^^^^ This right here ^^^^^

[murreywalker]

This is my second AS.

Number one had quite a few issues, and I now know the difference.

I bought number two from Colonial AS, and in the back and forth process, I asked what made Colonial (aside from price) competitive. They answered with "QC" (quality control). The salesperson (Colonial) said they actually QC'd each trailer multiple times.

Initially, I took that statement with a grain of salt, but as time has passed, I've become a believer. Some dealers (like Colonial) ACTUALLY go over the units before the sale. Others just take delivery from Airstream, and don't touch them.

The dealer makes the difference.

[Belegedhel]

The point I continually try to make with folks considering buying a vintage trailer is that all you are really buying is the shell. In many cases the entire interior, including floor, insulation, and axles can go to the landfill.

The same is essentially true of brand new trailers. The shell and interior skins are the really unique, interesting, covet-worthy, labor-intensive, and EXPENSIVE part of the trailer. Much of the interior furnishing is composed of third-party pieces that you might find in any other "high end" RV. You can hold AS responsible for selecting a poor supplier, but it isn't necessarily an "Airstream specific" problem if an appliance goes out.

I understand completely when someone pays $60-100k for an Airstream, that they have every right to expect "the best." But, as Protagonist illuminates above, AS is a business, and they have to find a balance between the various costs of the product, the time it takes to turn one out, what the market will bear, and what the company's owners expect for returns. I would compare AS to a high end automobile like a Mercedes, but Mercedes are built with much the same assembly line mass-production techniques that Toyotas are, so you can expect at least less "workmanship" type issues. It may be more appropriate to compare AS to a handbuilt vehicle like a Bentley or Lamborghini--but look at the cost of those little gems!

Guess I am saying "manage your expectations." High price sometimes just means "labor intensive."

I spent a few years as a Quality Engineer. One way we measured quality was in defects per opportunity. So thinking about just the Airstream shell, there are hundreds of rivets, hand cut parts, and hand drilled holes, and hand sealed seems. Every one of these is an opportunity for a defect. To improve quality, either you eliminate the opportunity (change the design to a rectangular box with six seams), or you figure out a way to standardize processes to eliminate variability (hire robots to do all the work).

[J. Morgan]

A LOT of the complaints about modern Airstreams stem from simple things made complex because buyers want fancy gadgets.

I mean really, how many fancy gadgets does a person need in a trailer with a 30' footprint?

I made my 72 MORE SIMPLE than it was when it came off the line...

Twenty years ago I would have gone gadgetitis.... I might not be older and wiser, but maybe I am.

(Notable exceptions utilized in my build;, tankless hot water heater, 5,000 watt inverter, on board DC generator)

[m.hony]

I had lots of quality control issues. None of them kept me from camping. They are all fixed now. I love my trailer regardless. It is better than my sob- tows better, better mpg, better quality. It's the retro, art deco, nostalgia thing along with a tad bit more quality than the industry average.

[Ag&Au]

Our experience was mixed. However our Airstream being our third travel trailer, our expectations were low. I believe that when Airstream stopped being a family owned business and when it was bought out by a large RV manufacturer, the quality gradually sank to the industry standard, while the hype remains high. The most discouraging to me were the things that needed repairing on our factory ordered (it did not sit on a lot) trailer. Several of them were glaringly visible on out acceptance inspection. I asked why they had not been repaired by the dealer before we were told it was ready. We were informed by the dealer that Airstream would not pay him for the repair, until the customer reported it and requested it be repaired. That does not sound like a company proud of their quality. There were large scratches on our corian counters that were obviously caused by installation of the sinks and stove. There were huge very visible gouges in the main door trim obviously caused by poorly trained gorillas try to get the couch through the door. There were a more issues of this type. All of these things were fixed in a few weeks, but it required time and expense on our part taking the trailer back to the dealer. I did not wish to leave it the cramped lot and chance more drastic damage. For a couple years we were finding unused screws and rivets, wood and metal shavings, and various other construction waste products in all the little nooks and crannies behind doors an drawers. It is obvious they never vacuumed a space before covering it from view.

Our first two trailers were a Casita and a Bigfoot. Both had minor issues on delivery, but they were so minor I fixed them myself. So I very disappointed in the condition of the Airstream.

Ken

[m.hony]

I think Casita and Bigfoot are both quality brands.
My Forest River Wildwood 28RLSS on the other hand...
I think people who go from Airstream to another brand can really only go to Casita, Bigfoot, Escape, Oliver, Redwood, Tiffin Allegro, etc. and not be satisfied.
Keystone maybe. Jayco possibly. Forest River? Uh-uh!

[A W Warn]

I fit into more than one of the categories in the poll, but I voted in the 1985-2004.

I have not owned an Airstream older than the 70's so I cannot compare them. But those older trailers were definitely built well.

I own my 5th and 6th Airstream now. A 1973 Excella was the first/oldest and the 2000 newest. The trailers I own now are probably my last.

It's my opinion that the build quality generally has improved over those years. Yes, there are some exceptions. (subfloor material has not improved, cabinets in the Safari are veneer over particle board crap, and filiform corrosion is a pain)

Each trailer had/has gadgets that were considered top of the line when they were made. That top of the line '73 had a gizmo mounted on the countertop that was a can opener, mixer, blender, and meat grinder all in one appliance. It had a 12v onboard generator that ran on propane. I thought it was wonderful at the time, but looking back we hardly used those things because it took to much time/work. The '78 had a electrical/water hose reel that recoiled when I pulled on it and then release pressure. That was really nice when it work, but it stayed broken a lot and eventually I could not get repair parts. The '87 had a thing between the axles that looked like a long piston covered by a rubber boot, that was supposed to make it ride better in some way (can't remember the function right now). It never worked.
I could go on and on, but the point I'm getting at is; as I have gotten older I appreciate simplicity and low maintenance. The fancy gadgets usually end up being problems that take away from the pleasure of camping/traveling.

[nickmeloy]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

... I believe that when Airstream stopped being a family owned business and when it was bought out by a large RV manufacturer, the quality gradually sank to the industry standard, while the hype remains high. ...

A very good friend of mine (now deceased) was with Airstream back in the day. He eventually left Airstream and started his own RV business for the very reasons that you mention.

My RV experience was in sail, motor-sail, and finally trawlers prior to moving onshore and purchasing an Airstream. My boating experience had taught me to be self sufficient in maintenance and upkeep.

We were the third owner of our 2006 30' Classic, and what I have found on the travel trailer is not that different from maintenance and upkeep requirements on the boats. An Airstream travel trailer's perceived quality is heavily dependent on a lot of hand labor and a work force of varying skill levels, so we should not be surprised by what we see.

My only real gripe is how difficult it is to access various parts and locations when it does become necessary for me to repair something.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by nickmeloy

A very good friend of mine (now deceased) was with Airstream back in the day. He eventually left Airstream and started his own RV business for the very reasons that you mention.

My RV experience was in sail, motor-sail, and finally trawlers prior to moving onshore and purchasing an Airstream. My boating experience had taught me to be self sufficient in maintenance and upkeep.

We were the third owner of our 2006 30' Classic, and what I have found on the travel trailer is not that different from maintenance and upkeep requirements on the boats. An Airstream travel trailer's perceived quality is heavily dependent on a lot of hand labor and a work force of varying skill levels, so we should not be surprised by what we see.

My only real gripe is how difficult it is to access various parts and locations when it does become necessary for me to repair something.

I'm guessing some of that may be inherent in the design, but taking the time to provide access hatches to important plumbing and electrical areas sure would make it a lot more serviceable.
I grew up around boats, and spent 5 years in the navy with both air and sea assignments. That experience makes landlubber designed travel trailers very annoying.
Trailers need to have something to sink into when things go wrong, then maybe they would be designed better.

Ken

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Ag&Au

Trailers need to have something to sink into when things go wrong, then maybe they would be designed better.

Such as the endless quagmire of mediocrity that is the competition?

[lsbrodsky]

We bought our 2012 lightly used and it was a Colonial trailer, which I think means the dealer fixed problems the PO never saw. The PO really never used it or fixed anything...in fact she was afraid of propane and never used those appliances.
We are enjoying our trips; I have improved some of the features and repairs have only been minor. I have also struggled with accessibility for any work I have done, even though I was used to working in the confines of a cruising sailboat. I agree that Airstream does not come close to the maintainability of even lower quality cruising sailboats.
If I had studied this forum more carefully before I bought, I might have decided to pursue something else. I got out of boating partly because I was spending more time maintaining than sailing. What I read here leads me to believe that this may come true in the future with our AS. Seriously, check and recaulk quarterly or semiannually? Most RV appliances are considerably cheaper and less robust than boat appliances and I accept that Airstream should be expected to anything about that. But I would have hoped that I had a reliable shell. I guess time will tell.