View Poll Results: What do you think of a Cyber Unit?
Giraffes are very tall, even at birth. 5 7.69%
George Patton was right. 7 10.77%
I like the idea of a cyber-unit 47 72.31%
Fire trucks are Red. Russians are Red. Fire trucks are always rushin’, so all Fire Trucks are Reds. Therefore, all Fire Trucks are Commies. 3 4.62%
What did he say? 3 4.62%
A Cyber Unit is stooooped idea, so stick with the program, Knuckle Head. 4 6.15%
Axels are the work of the devil. And so are tow vehicles. 4 6.15%
Cyber-unit, what’s that? 5 7.69%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2008, 12:11 PM   #15
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Hi Lynn,

I think the answer to your question is “yes, and”.



Your point is well taken, its understood the current documents state a unit must be tied to a geographical area – but, as Condoleezza Rice said recently “its not 1968 anymore!”.

I think the running dialog is rotating (in part) around how to bring the current organization into the present century. Not everyone will appreciate/understand/support a “Cyber-unit” that’s OK. They would not have to join.

I wonder if it is possible to amend the current bylaws (given leadership) to allow such a unit to exist. Honestly, from what I have read and heard – its looks doubtful.

One alternate suggestion – probably covered in the past – is why not simply set up a new intra-club? The net (Cyber) intra-club. It would accomplish most of the social, organizational, meeting needs folks here are talking about. Voting could be covered by joining one of the more progressive and less expensive units. From what I have read in the WBCCI Charter it is entirely possible.

Just a thought -- I could be wrong…
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digger bear View Post
Hi Lynn,
I think the answer to your question is “yes, and”.

Your point is well taken, its understood the current documents state a unit must be tied to a geographical area – but, as Condoleezza Rice said recently “its not 1968 anymore!”.
It's true that it's not 1968, but it's also true that the WBCCI presumes to be a camping club, which, of its very nature, assumes a certain geographic element. That view, in turn, assumes that folks want (to form) a unit rather than an intra-club.

Quote:
I think the running dialog is rotating (in part) around how to bring the current organization into the present century. Not everyone will appreciate/understand/support a “Cyber-unit” that’s OK. They would not have to join.

I wonder if it is possible to amend the current bylaws (given leadership) to allow such a unit to exist. Honestly, from what I have read and heard – its looks doubtful.
I agree! It's very doubtful that we'd be able to achieve such a change (at least in my lifetime).

Quote:
One alternate suggestion – probably covered in the past – is why not simply set up a new intra-club? The net (Cyber) intra-club. It would accomplish most of the social, organizational, meeting needs folks here are talking about. Voting could be covered by joining one of the more progressive and less expensive units. From what I have read in the WBCCI Charter it is entirely possible.
Again, I agree! If folks really just need a WBCCI-sponsored outlet for their non-camping interests -- they'd join some existing unit for purposes of camping or caravanning or whatever (including voting) -- then going for a new intra-unit might be the way to go.

As stated elsewhere, though, the MAL status should stay intact, for there are folks out there who do not want any other affiliation, unit or intra-unit. And that's ok, too, IMHO.


Lynn
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Old 08-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #17
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Hi Lynn,

I just ran inside to let my cyclo cool down for a few minutes so Ill try to respond to you quickly. Im polishing my rig (again) this weekend.

Now THAT’S a fools errand…

;-)

First I want to be sure you know I was saying I felt the club was out of touch with the times. I wasn’t inferring anything about you! We have never met and this is simply a discussion between strangers.

Besides, I am now qualifying for senior discounts at an alarming rate…

Here’s the deal – if I wanted to join a camping club, I might have.
The fact is, I probably would not have.
I don’t see an advantage to a camping club – I have enough family/friends to run around with to make my own ad hoc group. I am a member of WBCCI and passionately in love with my Safari.

I would suggest a couple of things: first is WBCCI was never simply a camping club. Wally saw first a marketing tool that promoted a lifestyle. This is important. Not a group of folks who hung around outdoors and drank beer on the weekends but an organization dedicated to a way of thinking and travel.

A lifestyle.

It resonates in his writings and club events/caravans/rallies.

Even if it only began as simply a camping club – that’s history and, while worth noting, is not really relevant to the discussion - times have changed and people needs have moved as well.

When I said its not 1968 – I was not referring to technology and the web. Peoples needs have changed. They are looking for a lifestyle and a community that is less geographically based. I have met some great people through this group. None are from my region. I want to go to events they are going to, not ones locally. I want to interact with people who have similar interests. None of those people are in my local unit.

Look at the huge list of forum categories in Airforums. Few forums are dedicated to actual camping. We talk about maintenance, preservation, cooking, flamingos and modern Zen philosophy under an aluminum roof among others. Lifestyles in this century. This the hole that has yet to be filled by any group. It is also the hole that WBCCI is falling through.

While an intra-club is not a final solution – institution of one might point to a club/unit that will see itself into modern times. The advantage of an intra club is: it does not presume geographic boundaries. That is one of the core principles of a “cyber intra-club”. No borders. If one prefers traditional limits, they simply don’t have to join. Sounds non threatening to me!

Again – just a thought. In any event, I think my cyclo is cooled off enough now to make my next f7 run…
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:43 PM   #18
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WBCCI Byloaws, etc.. etc.

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Originally Posted by eubank View Post

<SNIPPY>

I'll include below a couple of selections from the WBCCI By-Laws pertaining to new units. (I use the copy of the Blue Book available from the DenCo site, BLUE BOOK.)
Lynn,

Thanks for posting the location of the WBCCI Bylaws.

As I have stated in posts in other threads:

  • I am NOT a member of the WBCCI.
  • I have done lots of research on the WBCCI
Your posting of a location for the WBCCI Bylaws helps me continue my ongoing education about the organization. Thanks commin' at ya.

Having just downloaded a copy and given them my first brief perusal I have a one word response:

INCREDIBLE

I have had a fair amount of involvement with mutual benefit domestic non profit corporations over the years. I have dealt with lots of bylaws and state tax boards in relation to these groups and the legal requirements for establishing such an organization.

I have NEVER seen bylaws for them run more than 15 pages. Traditionally there is usually one more document filed at the time of the group being established - Articles of Incorporation. These two documents become the basis for the operation of the organization.

The WBCCI Bylaws are 74 pages.

And, there is an additional constitution; I wonder if this is Ohio's version of Articles of Incorporation.

In other posts in other threads I have steadfastly maintained that the WBCCI is doomed because of its STRUCTURE.

Now that I have started to examine the WBCCI Bylaws I am even more convinced that the structure of the WBCCI is the largest problem the organization faces.

Jim
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:35 PM   #19
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Cyber unit

Nice to see that 81.08% of the voters liked the idea and not one vote for a cyber unit is a stooped idea.
Guess no one from WBCCI IBT voted.Or maybe they voted for FIRE TRUCKS.
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:11 AM   #20
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There is a kind of convoluted logic in this. Everyone that isn't a member of a unit gets put in the MAL unit. As members of a unit, they would then have a vote. So, who wants to be the head MAL?
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:56 AM   #21
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I think that the Club would oppose a MAL Unit because they know that a number of members would leave traditional units to affiliate with the MAL unit. This is not the IBT's vision of what the Club should be. They would have to deal with a giant unit that generally did not see eye-to-eye with the IBT.

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Old 08-17-2008, 10:01 PM   #22
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Wow, I had no idea…..

Let me just say at the outset that Susan and I had to go out of town yesterday morning, so I haven’t been around an internet connection to keep up with things in this thread.

Bryan (Leipper), if you would permit me a little latitude for a moment. My intention here was take an informal, non-binding, completely non-scientific poll among the folks here on this forum. It was most definitely NOT intended to trash anybody’s beliefs or values. Hate is a very strong emotion, and I can say with a clean conscience that there are very few things, and even fewer people, that I “hate”. The questions in the poll were written to try and introduce a little humor into the conversation. Nothing more, nothing less. If I have offended you in any way, please accept my humble and sincere apologies.

Let me address traditions for a minute. At the risk of sounding completely self-serving, and posting something that I really don’t want to get into, Susan and I belong to three organizations that have traditions that are steadfast in their beliefs and many, many decades older than the WBCCI. Namely, the United States Army, the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. Traditions are a central part of the beliefs and core values of these groups. Traditions are maintained for several reasons. It gives the members of the organization a base to build from. It reminds them that they are carrying on because of all those that came before them. It also tells them to never forget the same people. Just a short list.

But it seems to me that any group has to change with the times. Let me tell you our WBCCI story. We are not members, but that is as much a function of not having a working Airstream yet (still under construction) as anything. We were able to attend the International last year in Perry on Saturday to visit the VAC open house. I have to say that the VAC is wonderful group of folks! Everybody welcomed us in and treated us like “family”. What more could you ask of any social organization that you are contemplating joining? And let’s face it; the WBCCI is more a social organization than a “camping” organization. We also had a chance to walk through the exhibition halls and view some of the work of the other units. I can say that we seem to relate more to the VAC folks than the others. That’s not a value judgment. We just identify with some groups better than others, that’s all. Not “better” or “worse”, just different.

Rules and regulations.

I am completely clueless about the day to day workings of the WBCCI. I have no idea what it takes to form a new unit. But, I have helped to incorporate other non-profits in the past. Somebody posted that the WBCCI has 75 PAGES of bylaws. I can tell you that is lot of rules.

So, in summation, to get back to the point…..I was simply asking who would and who wouldn’t. It may not be doable because of the structure of the organization itself. Based on the voting so far in this thread (again, completely non-scientific) roughly 80% of those responding to the question think there is a need for a “non-traditional” WBCCI unit. Those numbers point in a clear direction.

I know what some of you are thinking. “Dang, he almost articulated a reasonable point of view”. And you would be right.


Jim
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:22 PM   #23
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Eubank points out that the "Rules" require that one list a state (or a State), if the Rules are quoted correctly. Seems to me plausible that the Rule creators have provided the "correct" answer to this issue in their drafting - no telling whether this was intentional or inadvertent:

Under International Law principles, the USA is a State - and perhaps is a state, depending upon where you're from. So, why not the "USA CyberSpace Unit"?

Ryanh
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:00 AM   #24
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the poll is entertaining, and the results not a surprise.

we've covered the issues many times b4...

1. how the wb' defines mal status and how they intended this 'affiliate member ' classification would be used.

2. the reality of how those of us that ARE MALs TODAY would like the classification to be used.

#1 and #2 are in direct opposition and only #1 has power....

we who are #2 can raise a StInK (pun intended) and it does very little to help...

unit #000 is the placemarker used for mal classification, by the home office.

we are #000...and like tibet we need FREEDOM!

i've long favored a unit for us (3rd rock from the sun) is my favorite name...

although a unit simply called wbcci....

"wally's bastard children camping incognito " has a certain ring too...

for some background and views on both sides read these 2 threads...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...sap-39772.html

the first of these 2 explains exactly what a mal isn't (someone who drops out to become a mal)

see MOST of us that are mals don't wanna be tied to one local where we can't give it our all...

we are TRAVELERS in TRAILERS (TnT) and want a global unit that is geared toward our 'streamer lifestyle'...

this is just like the 100+ units that consider eating lunch at denny's monthly as a camping trip...

only different.

also the cyber/virtual unit idea has been floating here for a LONG time...

and this is the most complete thread on the topic.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...nit-22293.html

you will note in THAT THREAD, we had 10+ folks gathered to form a unit and a club insider to help...

and the effort went NO WHERE fast.

i have been a LOUD proponent for a cyber/virtual unit AND a mal unit with full membership status....

but as the main club continues to SINK under it's own leader ineptness...

i've become less interested in ANY new unit.

"a fish rots from the head down " is more than a cliche' it IS what's happening to the wb'...

so i'm less and less interested in remaining a member or forming a unit on a rotting fish.

cheers
2air'
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:28 AM   #25
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I'm really sorry I asked the question at this point. That pretty much makes up my mind about membership in this organization. Good luck to you all.

If the Mods want to close this thread in order to avoid any more bad feelings, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

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Old 08-18-2008, 08:13 AM   #26
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If you've had it with the WBCCI...

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I'm really sorry I asked the question at this point. That pretty much makes up my mind about membership in this organization. Good luck to you all.

If the Mods want to close this thread in order to avoid any more bad feelings, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

Jim
Then PM me and we can talk about creating the Airstream Club of our dreams....

Jim
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:19 AM   #27
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I don't know about bad feelings. But any organization that can't withstand vigorous debate is too weak to long survive.

I'm too new at this game to have a real opinion. But I do know that since WBCCI was created, times and the definition of "community" have changed. Just look at this website and set of forums. Ideas and help and chat and exchange of views occur from all over. People helping people. Best practices and recipes exchanged. Dialogue on a wide variety of topics. And because it's Internet based, it's not geographically bounded. Isn't that the issue?

Ryanh
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:26 AM   #28
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If there's disagreement, I think it might be that there are different reasons about for being a MAL currently.

-Some MAL folks don't want to be associated with a particular unit, a particular geography. For these folks, MAL is the best choice, but they should also consider starting an intra-club to serve their interests.

-Other MAL folks want to belong to a unit, but cannot locate an appropriate, non-moribund unit where they live. For these folks, the new unit approach a la FCU looks like the best approach.

Different solutions for different folks. Where's the beef?


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