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04-07-2016, 06:46 AM
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#141
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Rivet Master
1960 33' Custom
Athens
, Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,373
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I get the frustration. My only suggestion would be too see if you can get the shell to look how you want it, just hanging or sitting on blocks. Ditto check the floor on it's own. If that's possible it's just a challenge to marry it up to the floor buy adjusting the bows and the skin as it interfaces with the frame rails. If you can't get the shell to look good on it's own that implies that the windows front and rear were installed crooked or similar and would require some other fix. If the floor isn't flat that would require floor removal then heat to the rails but I'm certainly not a welder...
__________________
1960 Sovereign 33' Pacific Railroad Custom
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04-07-2016, 09:25 AM
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#142
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Rivet Master
1955 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Great Lake State
, .
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,480
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See my post #284, http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...-38289-21.html for my rear bolt down plate. By putting the belly pan on before the shell could have made the frame to ridged, your frame should have been very flexible without the belly pan.
Also I would contact Andy of Inland RV and have him take a look at your thread, I consider Andy a true expert on matters like this.
toastie
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04-07-2016, 10:22 AM
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#143
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top
I would also use the old frame as a template to build an entirely new frame as HiHo has described.
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Sorry to see it is sagging and crooked. My post above was a suggestion because of the problem you are now faced with. I'm not trying to rub it in your face, but I've been where you are now and wished I'd have listened to the advice I was given. Good luck.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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04-07-2016, 01:50 PM
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#144
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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Well, thanks for the input guys. I would say the shell has never been off….for sure. In hindsight yes…..new main frame rails would have alleviated any doubt as to the frames straightness. My women says to just embrace the old girl for all her flaws and move on. Ha! Maybe if it was original yes. My Indian vibrates like hell but I wouldn't want it any different because thats what they did back in 1930. Im thinking that Wally would not have let this rig leave the lot crooked….even though there isnt a straight rivet line on her.
Once again appreciate your help. I will take a look at the back plate and maybe give Andy a call. Cheers
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04-07-2016, 02:34 PM
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#145
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Believe me I really understand the frustration of Airstream restoration - I've done it twice now and didn't particularly enjoy it both times - way more fun to be IN the trailer rather UNDERNEATH it - Anywey the first thought I had was similar to toaste - the belly pan has made the frame rigid - I don't think I would give up on the frame if otherwise solid - the frame is very flexible without shell and belly pan. I'm wondering if you could "loosen" the belly pan - get it straight, drop the shell down leaving the belly "loose" and make it all straight and rivet it all together - one of the problems is the shell may "like" the bent frame and have a hard time settling down - that's what happened to me on the Flying Cloud - we think the trailer was dropped of the ship - frame is bent at the wheels and the tongue - we left it and the shell seemed happy - it all went back together and seems to be happy - hang in there - I know exactly how you feel
Ken J.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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04-07-2016, 02:38 PM
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#146
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Thinking more - before I did much of anything, I would figure out why/where the frame is sagging - its it really the frame, springs - smaller wheel ( ) hill side or what.
Ken J.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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04-07-2016, 06:41 PM
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#147
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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shell off restoration of '54 Cruiser
Get her back in the hanger and put it up on jack stands, 6 stands with the tires off the ground. Shim each stand until the floor is flat an level. Check in both directions, front to rear and side to side in multiple places since it will sag under its own weight and was probably twisted a bit from the original welding. Then you can tell what is wonky.
I level like this before I bolt down the ply and again after I flip it and start the belly pan. Even after all of that effort the frame/floor/belly pan will twist and sag without the shell. Then it's a matter of shoving stuff around as I reattach the shell. My 63' had 4" of frame droop when it was sitting on the tires and jack stand. The last one I did the RR corner was determined to twist high by 1/2" and I had the add weights to hold it flat during each step. It turned out really nice.
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04-07-2016, 06:50 PM
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#148
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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Im trying a last ditch maneuver. Before the front right side, looking from the rear was low. Im starting in the front and working my way back. I lowered the shell all the way off the chains, there was still an inch or so where the frame could be raised. I jacked the front up slowly and until the belly pan was sucked up all the way and the holes line up with the 3/4" c channel. before that I put in a tube of Vulcum. What the hell…just go for it. I started drilling and riveting. Just pop rivets. I also drilled out some hole in the front plate and clecod them along with a few pop rivets. The holes line up with the c channel going back to almost the wheel pants. then they are slightly too high along with aft of the wheel pants. My plan is to jack and drill my way aft…I tried that before with just a few holes and clecos and they all popped out. This time I will throw some pop rivets in every 10 holes or so just to hold it in place. The back of the trailer doesn't lean as bad as before. Don't ask me why , maybe the 24th time is a charm. It still leans however. Im thinking that I might have to shorten the rear right side u channel so that the shell is aloud to be pulled down. Worse case is I will call her Ilene and try not to stand behind her. wish me luck
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04-07-2016, 06:58 PM
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#149
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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I kind of tried that Hiho. I pulled the wheels and blocked it up so that the frame was level. I blocked it in 5 places. Thats when I discovered the 1" or so sag in the left rear that I thought I fixed. Maybe with the belly pan it is too rigid to flex like ken or toastie said.
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04-07-2016, 07:31 PM
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#150
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley29
I kind of tried that Hiho. I pulled the wheels and blocked it up so that the frame was level. I blocked it in 5 places. Thats when I discovered the 1" or so sag in the left rear that I thought I fixed. Maybe with the belly pan it is too rigid to flex like ken or toastie said.
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That's my guess. If you can't get the basic frame/floor/belly flat your are kinda behind the 8 ball to start.
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04-07-2016, 07:38 PM
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#151
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV
That's my guess. If you can't get the basic frame/floor/belly flat your are kinda behind the 8 ball to start.
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In this photo, the frame is perfectly flat. I had to add shims under the jack stands and weight to one corner but after adding the bellypan the assembly was much stiffer and flat.
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04-07-2016, 07:50 PM
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#152
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
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Here are a couple of other photos, the first is the frame and floor. You can see the sag over the length. The second is after the belly pan and how it helps hold everything flat. As an assembly it starts to gain some strength.
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04-07-2016, 09:43 PM
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#153
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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That was a mistake. I didn't think much of leveling or keeping the frame flat/straight when I did the belly pan…not like the floor which I made sure was flat. I just approached it like …..the belly pan is here to just protect the floor and insulation. Wasn't thinking in terms of support. makes sense thought
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04-07-2016, 09:46 PM
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#154
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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I will say that the shell even hanging on the chains slumps and droops in the old position it was in for …who knows how many years. It naturally wants to go back to that position. Not sure I will be able to get it right…hoping I can get close.
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04-09-2016, 09:01 AM
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#155
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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When you watch the old Airstream videos of guys putting them together or when you look at Airstream books from the 50's and 60's; Half the time the frames are elevated on cables and turned half upside down when their putting on the floors and belly pans. Looks like no care is given to having them perfectly level. Guess that is another excuse Im making for myself.
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04-09-2016, 09:31 AM
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#156
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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04-09-2016, 03:48 PM
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#157
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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No sh@#$#@t. If it was an airplane I probably wouldn't fly it but something Im going to pull behind me down the road. Yea…I'll do that.
Thanks
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04-09-2016, 03:49 PM
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#158
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3 Rivet Member
1954 26' Romany Cruiser
jefferson
, Oregon
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 193
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Im going to make this girl so shiny that know one will notice all the f@#$%%$#ups
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04-09-2016, 04:17 PM
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#159
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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Now you got it !!!!
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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04-26-2016, 11:55 AM
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#160
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2 Rivet Member
1954 25' Cruiser
Bern - Thun
, Berner Oberland
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 87
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My Cruiser 1954, new floorplan
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