Visit our Popular Forums

wkerfoot · 10-19-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy

...I'd either a) make sure you have load range D or E tires on your Jeep (stiffer sidewalls) or b) upgrade your tires/wheels to a low profile setup. Make sure your ST trailer tires are aired up (max psi on the sidewalls - mine take 65 psi - also make sure you have truck valve stems on the rims - passenger ones will blow out at this psi). With the firmer sidewalls or lower profile tires, sway will be reduced on the tow vehicle...
Marc

On this point I disagree. I determine the load that the tires are carrying and adjust the inflation to carry that load. My 1979 Safari, gross weight 5800 lbs, calls for 35 PSI in the tires even though the max is much greater. On my Dodge, I carry only 25 PSI in 12X16.5 tires, the max inflation will carry 2750 lbs or 1/2 of the truck weight. Overinflated tires will contribute to squirrellyness.

Bill

3Ms75Argosy · 10-20-2005, 08:51 AM

I won't debate this here, as there are many threads on tires and pressures out there, but one school of thought is that underinflation creates greater heat, flexing, and increases the likelihood of failure (see Ford Explorer tire issues). I agree that OVER inflation would cause a squirely behaving tire...my tires are rated for their max carring capacity at 65psi, that's not overinflation, just specs by the manufacter of the tire - for this particular tire. Goodyear has a pretty good FAQ section on their website about pressures. My BFG's on my van are also rated at 65 psi - I air down to 55 psi for a nicer ride when I don't tow the trailer (but I haven't lately because of gas prices). The van (255/70/16's) actually feels a bit sporty at this level. Much better than my old Astro van on P-metric lower profile tires (245/60/15's).

As I said, read and use what works for you.
Marc

85MH325 · 10-20-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wkerfoot

On this point I disagree. I determine the load that the tires are carrying and adjust the inflation to carry that load. My 1979 Safari, gross weight 5800 lbs, calls for 35 PSI in the tires even though the max is much greater. On my Dodge, I carry only 25 PSI in 12X16.5 tires, the max inflation will carry 2750 lbs or 1/2 of the truck weight. Overinflated tires will contribute to squirrellyness.

Bill

Bill, this is one of those discussions where everyone is right... depending on the setup they're using. While the weight rating on the tires is a good guide, and your tires may not be underinflated for the weight, they may still have enough sidewall flex that they cause the trailer to 'wiggle'. Car tires (P-metrics), even when aired up to max, if used in a towing application on a van rather than LT tires may cause the trailer to 'wiggle'. Poorly designed (for tow use) rear suspension in the tow vehicle may cause the trailer to wiggle. Towing the trailer with the tongue 2" high and not level will cause a trailer to wiggle. All of these factors together may be a really fun ride!

I know these things, because... even as a long-time veteran trailer towing Airstream owner a few years back, I towed my '61 Bambi behind my '98 Astro AWD on a trip from Iowa to Arizona. I didn't have the time or cash to "make it right" so I "towed with what I had". After repeatedly nearly crashing myself and family from severe trailer sway, I swore never to do that again.

Unfortunately that was in the days before resources like this were available... so I trial-and-errored the problem until I figured out on my own exactly what was causing the problems. After I replaced the Astro's cheap "B" range tall-flexi-sidewall tires with "C" range LT tires, the Bambi's tires with appropriate sized ST tires, both sets inflated to max psi, installed new and heavier shocks on the rear of the Astro, and figured out the proper drop on the draw bar, it towed like it was on rails.

Sway is seldom caused by any single issue such as overinflation; however side-wall flex will cause problems and sometimes serious problems. Generally sway is induced by either load-balancing issues, tongue weight issues, tire inflation/type issues, or hitch/tow rig engineering issues all acting together to contribute. A prime example of that is that my 34' trailer tends to wiggle behind my Excursion with 60 psi(appropriate for the weight they're carrying) in the "E" range tires on the rear. At 75 psi (80 psi max) it tracks like it's on rails. This is obviously not a trailer issue at all, but a tire sidewall stiffness issue on the Excursion. The trailer doesn't seem to care much what I inflate the tires on the trailer to as a tri-axle trailer is inherently stable; however I do keep them at 50 psi (their max) because the front and rear axles slide/scuff better and have less of a tendency to break the bead on tight turns at the expense of the center of the tread wearing a little faster. Since my tires usually die from UV exposure LONG before the tread wears out, I figure it's no big deal.

If you've read any of my other posts regarding my Excursion, you'll know that my problems were also caused by engineering design failures on the part of Ford. Once those issues were resolved through aftermarket solutions, my Excursion is now a superb tow vehicle, one of the best out there, IMHO.

BTW, the taillights FINALLY made it into the mail today! Sorry it took so long.

Roger

ankornuta · 10-21-2005, 04:59 PM

Thanks everyone on the towing/sway feedback. I know that getting new bearings and 6-ply sidewall trailer tires on the Cruiser will help a lot. I've also been thinking about getting larger rims w/ low profile truck tires on my Jeep. So, it sounds like if I run those at a pretty high pressure that will assist too. I'm going to try out that configuration along with my weight distribution hitch before I invest the big $$$s on a Hensley hitch. With any luck I won't need it! I was pricing the Hensley Arrow online and it costs nearly as much as I paid for the trailer!

I need to go into the dealership for an oil change and tire rotation tomorrow... so I think when I'm there I'm going to talk to them about the reas suspension on the Jeep, too. It has a rated towing capacity of 7200 pounds, but I'm not sure how stiff the rear end is.

Oh, and it looks like the trailer will be back home with me around the first of November, yay!

3Ms75Argosy · 10-21-2005, 07:05 PM

or overload springs on the rear... with a properly functioning weight distribution setup, you don't need these "helpers." The Excursion problem was due to it's rear end design - I believe it needed a stiffer rear roll bar (it was made soft for ride... search for his thread and you can see what he did). Airstreams like a softer ride from the tow vehicle (in verticle compliance - not lateral - the Excursions problem). Just remember you can't just air up any old tire, you have to stay within the rating on the sidewall. Heavier load rated tires take higher psi.

Last but not least, you also need sway control (it can be a friction sway control - ANYTHING) with the weight distribution setup. Briefly - the WD hitch puts weight off the rear axle of your Jeep onto the front, both the front AND rear should sag about the same (leaving your Jeep level, and the trailer level) at rest. Your dealer needs your TV to set this up correctly. Sway control keeps your trailer from swaying back and forth from crosswinds, trucks etc.

Are you going back for the trailer? If so, you can stop by the w/e of the 28th-30th for the Beverly Beach State Park rally on the OR coast, we'd love to see you and your trailer.
Marc

bdlwet · 10-21-2005, 10:12 PM

Welcome to the forum and good luck. It is awonderful A/S you bought and this site will help you lots.

I heartily recommend stiffer sidewalls on both trailer and Jeep. I run either 8 or 10 ply and drive my little 24" around 70-75 mph on a ball hitch with no weight distribution mechanisms. I get a little float above 80 mph and don't recommend doing any of that kind of driving until you check out your brakes and bearings. I also wonder about the GVW Rating on a double door. Mine is 3450 from aistream book and sometimes it pulls a little heavy. (feels heavy...I have some experience with this). I also recommend checking site for methods of estimating curvature in axle. Loads of people with lots of experience here can save headaches later. They will help you over hard jobs with humor and validity. Good luck.
Bill

66Overlander · 10-22-2005, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdlwet

I also wonder about the GVW Rating on a double door. Mine is 3450 from aistream book and sometimes it pulls a little heavy.

Just a small correction - your 3450 lbs. (or 3810 lbs. for '65 Tradewind according to the Airstream Web site here) is the dry weight of the trailer, minus options that may have been installed by the factory, and certainly minus options installed by owners and minus fluids (water, LP) and gear.

GVWR (or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) is that maximum your trailer should ever weigh when towed, according to the manufacturer. This number will be much larger than the dry weight, probably several hundred to a couple thousand pounds more depending upon age and size of the trailer. Unfortunately, I do not beleive Airstream published GVWR's for trailers back in the '60's (I know I could never find one for our '66 Overlander). If you can find a weight rating for the original axles, these would be a good start at determinaing an approximate GVWR. Typically GVWR's of newer Airstreams are slightly higher than the axle total, because it is assumed that some weight will be carried on the tongue.

If your axles have been replaced, then all bets are off on using their ratings to determine an approximate GVWR. The newer axles might have a higher rating that the original ones. If you load the trailer to these higher limits, you may find that the frame or other components are not up to the task of hauling the additional weight.

85MH325 · 10-22-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdlwet

I also recommend checking site for methods of estimating curvature in axle. Bill

Bill, you have Henschen axles under your trailer. Akornuta has straight, sprung trailer axles under his '58. They didn't begin using Henschens until 1961.

Airstream didn't begin publishing GVWR figures until the 1989 model year.

Roger

ankornuta · 10-24-2005, 03:15 PM

Not to open another can of worms here... but what do you think about replacing the old axles w/ new ones. And I just saw that Airstream has now started using Dexter axles http://www.dexteraxle.com Anyone know much about these compared to Henschen axles?

I kind of got the impression that it's a good idea to replace axles, no matter what. Not to mention I plan on increasing the gross weight of this trailer, so it would help out there, too.

wkerfoot · 10-24-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankornuta

Not to open another can of worms here... but what do you think about replacing the old axles w/ new ones. And I just saw that Airstream has now started using Dexter axles http://www.dexteraxle.com Anyone know much about these compared to Henschen axles?

I kind of got the impression that it's a good idea to replace axles, no matter what. Not to mention I plan on increasing the gross weight of this trailer, so it would help out there, too.

Ankornuta,

Don't you have spring axles on your Cruiser? They are easy to replace, but unless you have spring, brake compatability or lug pattern issues, it is probably not necessary. A conversion to torsion axles would involve quite a bit of work including adding reinforcements to the frame for the mounting of the torsion axles.

Bill

85MH325 · 10-24-2005, 05:01 PM

I suppose that replacing the axles might be a worthwhile endeavor if you find that the brake parts or bearing seals or something are difficult to find. Otherwise, I don't really see much point. Your springs are easily and inexpensively replaced, and the axles will last basically forever. I'd probably just leave them until you have a reason to worry about them.

Yes, otherwise, as Bill said, they can be replaced with axles from a number of manufacturers that build torsion axles provided you do the proper fitment for them. Dexter, AL-KO, and Henschen are the three that I'm familiar with, and they are all quality axles. There are others also, but I don't have any personal experience with anything other than the three I mentioned. A search for "rubber torsion axles" on Google will provide you hours of entertaining reading.

Roger

ankornuta · 10-24-2005, 05:32 PM

wkerfoot and 85MH325, thanks again for the great advice! Once I get my trailer back from Oregon (it's supposed to be here on 11/02!!) I'll double-check and see exactly what kind of axles I have on it. The mechanic who has it in Eugene right now is doing a thorough inspection of the running gear also, so hopefully he'll be able to see any tell-tale trouble signs.

I do plan on reinforcing the frame anyhow, in order to add a few modern amenities, so perhaps that would be a good time to have reinforcement added for the potential future switch-over to torsion axles.

85MH325 · 10-24-2005, 06:03 PM

There's not much point in worrying about it until you get the trailer and then do your homework. Each axle company has a unique mounting system for it's axles, so if you decide to replace the factory installed solid axle/leaf spring setup, you'll need to figure out whose axles you want to use, send them the measurements they require, and then modify your frame as required to accept the mounts once you have the axles in hand. There is no 'one-size-fits-all" solution. It's going to be a total custom install.

Roger

flyfshr · 10-24-2005, 08:29 PM

ankornuta-
I had my axle replaced here in town at Auto Safety House. They took off my old one and had one built to match it exactly. Well, not quite exactly because they replaced the hydraulic type for the electric brakes. I didn't want to mess with hydraulic brakes as there was a connection on the tongue of the trailer for connecting to the tow vehicle's hydraulic system so the two vehicles worked off the same hydraulic system. Not my cup odf tea.

Brad
FF

ankornuta · 10-27-2005, 03:34 PM

Cool... it's always nice to know of local places!

ankornuta · 11-04-2005, 01:26 PM

Exciting news... the people shipping my trailer down from Eugene to Phoenix are picking it up today from the mechanic and will be starting their trip here on Monday (which happens to be my birthday

)

So... it looks like I'll have it home by next weekend at the very latest. Finally! Then the real fun begins...

ankornuta · 11-10-2005, 05:00 PM

Okay, it was a little late. But it's here now and I finally get to pick it up, hooray!

till · 11-10-2005, 07:26 PM

Yea!!!! I can not wait to see some photos. I love two door Airstreams.

ankornuta · 11-12-2005, 07:08 PM

So, the trailer is home now. I'm trying to figure out a few things.

Tile Floor
I lifted the crappy indoor/outdoor carpet out and found tile underneath. It looks relatively good, but it'll probably have to go as it's kind of dried out and lifting on the edges. Is there any way to save this stuff?

Water Pump
Also, my water tank has the air pump nipple, but I did find a water pump attached to it on the inside. Was that an option in 1958? It's hard to tell the age of it, it looks old... but original?

Battery Charger
There's a battery charger attached to the wall above the sleeper couch. It's kind of a neat idea for charging the battery while plugged into shore power. I guess one of the POs did this. I like it.

Stove
A lot of people talk about "Princess" stoves in 1958 Airstreams, but mine says "Dixie". Is that just a model name, or is this not the original stove... or is that another brand that was used as well?

The floor is in pretty good shape (no sag or rot - but covered in sand! ), but I found out the toilet's not original, that's going to have to be replaced. Anyone know where I can get a toilet for a 1958 Airstream?

Oh, and I see that the belly pan is falling off. I was planning on taking that off anyhow to clean up the frame. Oh well.

Lots of fun ahead for me! I've decided to restore the whole thing back to 100% original condition.

85MH325 · 11-12-2005, 09:16 PM

That Sureflo pump is not original. If it had a pump, it would have been an air pump to pressurize the tank. Later Airstreams had PAR, belt-driven piston pumps. I think that "Dixie" was one of the "Princess" models.... but don't quote me on that one. If the tiles are curling, they'll need to come out.

Good luck!

Roger