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06-02-2007, 08:43 AM
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#81
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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The front
Here is a picture of the front end from the inside. This is how I braced it.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-02-2007, 10:29 AM
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#82
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
I found that this model does not sit on just the C-channels and then bolted to the floor. There are extrusions that slide onto the the floor plywood and then slip inside the skin, they are then riveted to the shell.
Anyone seen this before?
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I've got to think back a couple years. My '74 24' Argo had extrusion like this on the parallel sides and ended ... at the corner ribs? I'll have to browse my pics. Then there was formed c-channel above the floor only at the ends. I believe there was a bit of your channel aft of the roadside wheelwell but it didn't cross the floor edge of the battery compartment just in front of the roadside rear corner rib.
I have to do quite a paradigm shift looking at your pics and seeing windows on both sides -- should be easier for a 25' FB owner, eh? Looks like the project is advancing well!
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06-02-2007, 10:50 AM
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#83
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Rivet Master
1975 Argosy 26
1963 24' Tradewind
Seattle
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,341
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Wow, that would be probably the best way, as it seems like it would keep the edges from rotting from exposure to water, AS LONG as the wood was sealed in there. If not, water would be trapped, and, well, do worse damage I'm sure. Looks better than the typical exposed edges with the wrap made to dump the water on them.
I bet they stopped using this type of extrusion for one reason.... cost. I'm sure that wasn't a cheap way to do it.
You'll have to make sure the wood thickness is the same as what was in there before though.
Thanks for the pics!
Marc
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06-02-2007, 12:18 PM
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#84
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
I've got to think back a couple years. My '74 24' Argo had extrusion like this on the parallel sides and ended ... at the corner ribs? I'll have to browse my pics. Then there was formed c-channel above the floor only at the ends. I believe there was a bit of your channel aft of the roadside wheelwell but it didn't cross the floor edge of the battery compartment just in front of the roadside rear corner rib.
I have to do quite a paradigm shift looking at your pics and seeing windows on both sides -- should be easier for a 25' FB owner, eh? Looks like the project is advancing well!
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You're exactly right Bob.
Looks good for holding but as Marc said "watch out for water in the channel". I just measured it and the thickest plywood I could use is 17/32". I was hoping to go a little thicker to get the floor stiffer. The 1/2" plywood they used to build the trailer is really flabby now. I'll have to rethink this problem. Maybe extra braces along the walk paths in the trailer. I will be putting the tanks under the floor so I can't go too wild with bracing.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-02-2007, 12:30 PM
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#85
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Rivet Master
1975 Argosy 26
1963 24' Tradewind
Seattle
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,341
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sandwich style?
Gary, cost may be an issue, but would the signboard stufff that boatdoc used on this Argy work? I believe it is metal sandwiching wood?
Marc
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06-02-2007, 01:06 PM
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#86
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
I just measured it and the thickest plywood I could use is 17/32". I was hoping to go a little thicker to get the floor stiffer.
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Hi Gary -- When I replied earlier I ran downstairs to take a look at the stamp on my plywood stock. I've only replaced the front section of floor though I also have to do under the bathroom. I did have to replace a floor section under my battery but haven't had to deal with inserting floor in this type of channel. Trying to go stiffer than the 1/2" ply I settled on 19/32" CDX underlayment (more complete inner veneers than other building grade plywoods, though not perfect!). Marine ply is supposed to have the most complete veneers but I couldn't get my hands on any.
I haven't done the following but I've been thinking. (Danger!) The bottom veneer in any panel will be vital to maintaining the stiffness against deflection under load; the top veneer is in compression only. If you want floor stock that's more than 1/2", here is a straightforward solution that's better than attacking plywood with a belt sander to make it fit. And it doesn't need to be fitted over every frame member because the underside stays flat!
Tack a temporary fence parallel to the floor edge so that a router could hog out the extra few 32nds of an inch. Start from the outside edge, moving progressively toward the fence for the amount that has to go into the channel. Your front and back C-channel can't sit at a different level, so rip a thin stringer that be used as a fence to follow that curve to let you inlay the C-channel into this slight reduction. Try it on a piece of scrap first to fit into the channel as you set your router bit depth. This slight extra floor height might need some thinking through how it will affect the door entry and putting the same partitions back in. I'd seal the edges plenty good with Rot Doctor, though that's a whole different topic. Plenty to think through alright!
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06-02-2007, 01:31 PM
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#87
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,280
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Notice on the old ply at the curved ends. On my '74 there wasn't a screw hole through every hole in the C-channel -- the empty holes had a corresponding ramping of the floor top edge with a rat tail file as if they intended these to drain water in the C-channel outward and discharge along the inside of the banana wrap.
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06-02-2007, 04:41 PM
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#88
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
Notice on the old ply at the curved ends. On my '74 there wasn't a screw hole through every hole in the C-channel -- the empty holes had a corresponding ramping of the floor top edge with a rat tail file as if they intended these to drain water in the C-channel outward and discharge along the inside of the banana wrap.
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That makes sense, any water caught in the C-channel would drain out. I wondered what the of the extra holes in the channels were for. I'll file the ply, then do the edge treatment. I think your previous post will work, the only thing I can figure would be different would be the C-channel would ride up on the uncut portion of the plywood. This would cause a slight shift in the holes for the extrusion, which I think would be a good thing. Fresh holes for the pop rivits.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-02-2007, 04:44 PM
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#89
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
Gary, cost may be an issue, but would the signboard stufff that boatdoc used on this Argy work? I believe it is metal sandwiching wood?
Marc
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I looked into that stuff and I think it is beyond my Peter Principle and price range. Good thought though, keep em coming.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-02-2007, 04:51 PM
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#90
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Polyethylene vs. ABS Tanks
I need some new tanks for the project, fresh,grey and black. I was wondering if ABS tanks have improved in the recent past or are they still prone to cracking. ABS is lots cheaper than polyethylene, but not if you have to repair and replace them.
I'm looking for input on this subject. I'll be ordering them in the next few weeks and I need to hear from you all on this subject.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-03-2007, 06:48 PM
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#91
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Rivet Master
1966 17' Caravel
Currently Looking...
Las Cruces
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 577
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I bought polyethylene for the black water replacement I needed. Frankly, I wanted (and got) strength. I have no wish to try ABS for the tanks.
__________________
1966 Airstream Caravel
2006 Toyota Tacoma
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06-05-2007, 09:21 PM
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#92
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Rivet Master
1951 21' Flying Cloud
1960 24' Tradewind
West Coast
, BC
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
I need some new tanks for the project, fresh,grey and black. I was wondering if ABS tanks have improved in the recent past or are they still prone to cracking. ABS is lots cheaper than polyethylene, but not if you have to repair and replace them.
I'm looking for input on this subject. I'll be ordering them in the next few weeks and I need to hear from you all on this subject.
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If the tanks are exposed at all I'd avoid ABS. While picking up my gray ABS tank (an inside under counter tank) there were three tanks in the shipment to the parts store. Mine was the only one that did not need repair before the RV parts guy could sell them. Scary.
Barry
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06-24-2007, 05:01 PM
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#93
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,930
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Garys been busy! The shell and frame are seperated. The floor leaves something to be desired....
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06-24-2007, 05:12 PM
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#94
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1968 28' Ambassador
Butte
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet
Garys been busy! The shell and frame are seperated. The floor leaves something to be desired....
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Someone once told me that they weren't doing a shell off. hmmm.....wonder who that was.......
Lookin' good ! Looks like they went with the cheap stuff when they put that floor in at the factory. Lots of knots there. (read voids)
__________________
AIR # 7276, WBCCI # 7276
Project 2k5
Life is a journey, not a destination
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06-24-2007, 05:15 PM
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#95
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,930
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All the wood and mouse infested insulation is taken out and the rust kill is applied. No frame cracks. But... also no frame support across the front and back. This explains the spongy feel in the floor in those areas. We will add a couple of chunks of c channel in these areas.
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06-24-2007, 05:18 PM
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#96
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C Johnson
Someone once told me that they weren't doing a shell off. hmmm.....wonder who that was.......
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well um.... that person is now practicing hard to be flexible....
There was not one square inch of insulation that wasn't full of mouse trails. we never would have gotten the smell out.
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06-24-2007, 05:24 PM
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#97
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1968 28' Ambassador
Butte
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,201
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Quote:
well um.... that person is now practicing hard to be flexible....
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LOL
Quote:
There was not one square inch of insulation that wasn't full of mouse trails. we never would have gotten the smell out.[/
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I hear ya. It is the reason I had to do it to mine.
__________________
AIR # 7276, WBCCI # 7276
Project 2k5
Life is a journey, not a destination
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06-24-2007, 05:40 PM
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#98
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Rivet Master
1975 Argosy 26
1963 24' Tradewind
Seattle
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,341
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looks like a yard sale on that plywood... how many cordless drills and jigsaws did it take? LOL! How did the shell come off, was it supported from the outside and the floor driven out?
I helped move a 64 Safari and 70's 24ft Argosy today. What a difference in weight. Maybe the lack of c-channel is how they saved some weight... and money? I loved looking at that 60's trailer in my rear view mirror...... must resist!
All that insulation is really gross. Makes me cringe about mine. Yuk!
Marc
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06-24-2007, 06:06 PM
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#99
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
looks like a yard sale on that plywood... how many cordless drills and jigsaws did it take? LOL! How did the shell come off, was it supported from the outside and the floor driven out?
I helped move a 64 Safari and 70's 24ft Argosy today. What a difference in weight. Maybe the lack of c-channel is how they saved some weight... and money? I loved looking at that 60's trailer in my rear view mirror...... must resist!
All that insulation is really gross. Makes me cringe about mine. Yuk!
Marc
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I placed the inside supports across the trailer to keep the shape. Then used them and a floor jack to raise the ends one at a time. I then placed short 2x4's under the C-Channel and screwed them to the bottom of the channel. Had to do this because there is skin that entends about
1 1/4" below the c-channel, I did'nt want to bugger it up. I then Jacked it up further and placed 2 12' 2x4's across the shell at each end on saw horses. Then screwed the 2x4's to the saw horses and screwed the blocks attached to the c-channel to the support 2x4's. All one connected mass, then tied it all to tie points. I hope it won't take flight in our "Termination Winds". Once everything was secure I picked up the tounge and pulled it out from under the shell. My steel muscles bulging , was'nt difficult at all. Two cordless drills are a good thing to have because there about 300 + rivets that have to be drilled to get the shell off. About 50 hours of work and counting. The insulation body count was 14 dead mice and 1 dead bird, I am so glad that part of the work is done.
I'm hoping to have the shell back on in two weeks or less. I don't want to take any chances with the wind.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-24-2007, 06:41 PM
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#100
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
I'm hoping to have the shell back on in two weeks or less. I don't want to take any chances with the wind.
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Gary, IIRC, the black tank partly extends through the floor in the rear of the trailer, it would be a good idea to make sure where it goes before adding the C channel back there. The old grey tank went somewhere around that area, too. Are y'all going to move the tanks to a more central location?
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Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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