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Old 06-02-2006, 12:17 AM   #1
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Looking into an Argosy

Greetings All!

New guy here! I'm in the middle of looking into an Argosy 22 for sale up the street from me selling for 6500$. I've done some business with the seller in the past and he's proven to be a decent guy. He says that its been used regularly and maintained well, and that the biggest problem with the camper is that the AC is shot. I've managed to cut a deal with him to put 3000$ down and regular monthly payments.

I'm going to be checking it out and really going through everything in a few days, so my questions and concerns are; Is this a decent price, and is there any good information out there I can arm myself with before I head over there and kick the tires : )?

I'm a bit on the nervous side with all of this. I've always loved camping but never owned a real camper before. I made a deal with my parents that If I bought a camper I could park it in the yard while I go to college, so I am on something of a time table and need something that'll be able to handle being continuously lived in for long periods of time. The camper looks beautiful from the outside, but I honestly don't know much about what I'm getting into, so any comments and help would be a thousand times appreciated!!!
-R
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:17 AM   #2
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Since we don't know:
a)Year
b)Condition

it is tough to give you an idea of whether it is worth the price. Here's what you should look at:

1)Axle condition. Go to InlandRV.com or search here for determining if they(it) are(is) good still or not.
2)Work ALL appliances and systems: Stove, Fridge, Hot water heater, water pump. If he tells you you can't cause he doesn't have gas, water, electricity to the trailer, consider them non working.
3)See that it runs from shore power
4)use the electric DC lights by: A) running without shore power, then b)take off the battery ground wire and run with shore power. This will tell you the converter is at least working the lights.
5)Look for leak damage. Examine walls for stains, floor for rot...If it has a wood floor.
6)Pressurize the water systems and look for leaks.
7)examine the curtains, cushions and carpet for wear and dry rot. This will get you. Pull up the cushions and look at their undersides.

I think 6500 is a little high. You can find 20 footers for 1000-3000 easy. If it is really pristine shape, and I mean all of the paint is good and it shines, the windows are in fine shape, the awning is perfect, etc..., maybe $5000.

New AC will run you ~$450. Each appliace that is bad, fridge - 600, water pump - 75, converter - 130, etc ... will add up.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:04 AM   #3
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I disaagree about price being too high. Small trailers are in high demand. It is not uncommon to pay 5 or 6 K for a small trailer. That doesn't mean that you don't occasionaly come across cheaper ones - they are just increasingly rare....
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:19 AM   #4
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I have to agree with Janet. Used small Airstreams are increasingly rare, and with the new prices spiraling out of control, increasingly expensive. I bought my '61 Bambi for $1100 in 1998. It needed a little work, but was overall in pretty good shape. There are two of them on eBay right now for $15k or better. '03 and '04 Bambis are selling for $28-$31k. A new Bambi will set you back $45k or better.

I've probably bought my last Airstream. Last weekend I bought a like-new '04 Bigfoot 17' fiberglass trailer with a full-size refrigerator/freezer, three burner stove and oven, a full-size wet bath, and the full four-seasons package including heated and insulated tanks and dual-pane thermo windows for $15k. My '04 Bigfoot 17' weighs 500-1,000 lbs less than the current comparable 16' Bambi, and isn't susceptible to hail damage. The new '06 Bigfoot 25' rear queen model is selling for less than $35k and they are as of high quality build and materials as Airstream is using. A 25' Airstream is nearly $60k now? Because of the price of the new ones, and demand for used, our 1994 34' continues to be worth what we paid for it three years ago. Airstream's got a great gee-whiz factor, but I'm not willing to pay twice what other quality coaches are worth for it.

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Old 06-02-2006, 09:22 AM   #5
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Looking into an Argosy

Greetings Ryan!

Welcome to the Forums!

I agree with John that it would help to know a bit more about the coach, but there are a number of things that can influence its value and John mentions most of them. There are two additional items that can have an impact as well.

There were two distinct varieties of Argosy 22' coaches offered. In the main series there were two models offered (depending upon year -- 1972-1977) -- one with the typical front entry door (located ahead of the axles); and the second a rear door model that places the entry door behind the axles -- the rear door model has a unique floorplan that can be quite appealing. Then in 1977, the Argosy Minuet 6.7 Metre was introduced (it was typically registered as an Argosy 22') -- the floorplan was similar to that of the standardd Argosy 22', but it was 8" narrower than the standard series coaches and a bit lighter (some of these coaches, but not all, had the aluminum composite floors).

The price seems a little high, but the demand for the smaller (under 25') coaches has been strong and with fuel prices where they are there may be additional pressure on the prices of these smaller, lighter coaches. Some things that I would suggest considering in addition to what John mentioned would include:
  • Does the coach have an awning?
    • What brand is the awning if present?
      • Condition of the awning hardware will be particularly important if it is not a ZipDee as other manufactureres have abandoned the Airstream market making replacement arms and components unique to the Airstream curved body very difficult (if not impossible) to obtain.
      • Condition of the awning fabric is also important, but even the awning manufacturers who have abandoned the hardware segment will still provide replacement fabric for an existing awning.
  • Does the coach have a front window rock guard?
    • When these coaches were produced, it wasn't felt that a rock guard was a necessity so many were not so equipped. Today, it is quite important to protect the deep wrap wing windows as non-tinted replacements that will match the originals are no longer available (the new replacements that are available from Airstream are solar gray tinted and costly). A new rock guard is available from Airstream, but expect one to cost around $600 for the parts -- a single replacement wing window can cost at least $500.
  • Appliances, as John mentioned can be quite costly to replace and even if the coach is from the last year of the first series of Argosy production (1979), most of the appliances are approaching their design life expectancies -- between my two coaches, I have had to replace most major appliances -- I am not a do-it-yourselfer, and the following are some of the ballpark costs that I have experienced for dealer replacements:
    • New Dometic 3-way RV refrigerator $1,100.
    • New Suburban Furnace $575.
    • New Atwood 6-gallon water heater $575.
    • New Coleman Air Conditioner $700.
    • New Power Converter $225.
    • Rebuild Kit for PAR water pump w/installation $100 (I am convinced that the original PAR water pump is far superior to the current pumps so I had mine rebuilt in both coaches).
    • New LP Gas regulator $195.
    • New OPD Valves with recertification and LP refill $90 (30 pound tanks), and $75 (20 pound tanks) for pair.
  • Condition of Tambour if coach is so equipped.
    • During the first series run of the Argosy coaches, tambours were introduced as a material for cabinet doors. These "roll-type" cabinet doors can be quite attractive, but when the backing material fails the slats become detached making repair or replacement necessary -- also, some of the plastic laminates develop warpage that necessitates replacement. Tambour materials are readily available so replacement is not difficult, but enough material to replace the tambours in a 22' coach can approach $400 depending upon the new material of choice (a variety of laminates as well as real wood tambours are available from either one of at least two primary vendors). Some of the hardware utilized (particularly in overhead lockers) was unique to Airsteam/Argosy and can be difficult to replace.
  • Condition of side windows if coach happens to be a Minuet.
    • The side windows on a Minuet are acrylic, and can become cloudy to opaque if they haven't been properly cared for. It is possible to buy restoration chemicals/supplies from Aircraft Spruce that will assist in their cleaning/restoration, but seriously scratche or clouded windows may require replacement which can be difficult if not a bit costly depending upon the particular window involved and whether new acrylic is pusued or if tempered glass is the chosen replacement.
Good luck with your investigation! These Argosy coaches can be a joy to own and tow. It would be difficult for me to say which coach provides more enjoyment -- Argosy Minuet or Airstream Overlander.

Kevin
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:41 AM   #6
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I completely agree with Roger when it comes to the Bigfoot trailers especially in the 17 foot size. They are of very high quality and have a reputation for durability.
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
Greetings All!

New guy here! I'm in the middle of looking into an Argosy 22 for sale up the street from me selling for 6500$. I've done some business with the seller in the past and he's proven to be a decent guy. He says that its been used regularly and maintained well, and that the biggest problem with the camper is that the AC is shot. I've managed to cut a deal with him to put 3000$ down and regular monthly payments.

I'm going to be checking it out and really going through everything in a few days, so my questions and concerns are; Is this a decent price, and is there any good information out there I can arm myself with before I head over there and kick the tires : )?

I'm a bit on the nervous side with all of this. I've always loved camping but never owned a real camper before. I made a deal with my parents that If I bought a camper I could park it in the yard while I go to college, so I am on something of a time table and need something that'll be able to handle being continuously lived in for long periods of time. The camper looks beautiful from the outside, but I honestly don't know much about what I'm getting into, so any comments and help would be a thousand times appreciated!!!
-R
Hi Ryan,

This is the size Argosy I've been looking for - wish I found it before you.
If you decide to purchase it look into joining the WBCCI New England Unit, you'll find we are a fun loving group of Airstream/Argosy owners who enjoy camping and traveling to new places together. Our next rally is being held at Scusset Beach, June 22 - 25. Stop by and meet the group, there will be 35 rigs there!
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Old 06-04-2006, 09:32 AM   #8
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>>I've probably bought my last Airstream... Because of the price of the new ones, and demand for used, our 1994 34' continues to be worth what we paid for it three years ago. Airstream's got a great gee-whiz factor, but I'm not willing to pay twice what other quality coaches are worth for it.<<

Be it gee-whiz factor, construction method or what have you the fact that Airstreams maintain a high resale is one reason that makes them worth more. If you keep a trailer forever then what you pay up front is essentially gone, but if you ever want to sell then the cost of the trailer is what you paid less what you can sell it for. If you can use a new Airstream for three years and sell it for what you paid then the trailer was essentially free (OK, minus the value of interest the money could have earned).

We just bought an Argosy 24 for $4,000 that's in good condition. It came with ALL the original owners manuals; includeing the "Dear Argosy Owner, CONGRATULATIONS" letter. The 1978 price schedule lists an Argosy 20 at $6,525. Essentially you'd be paying the price of the trailer when brand new and unless it's in excellent condition I think that's a little high. I'd start with that price and start deducting for everything that can't be demonstrated to be in working order, it adds up fast! How much for a @%$& door latch??
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Old 06-04-2006, 10:34 AM   #9
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Everybody has pretty much hit on the basics, my concern would be the payment plan you stated that you are in college and I worry because on our vintage trailer there are always things popping up to fix and it does add up no matter how hard you check it out there will be something that has to be done. Or should I say you want to do. I would try to pay him all at once and be sure you have a little left to do the things you need to do.
I guess that's the mama in me, but just the short time I have been here on the forums there have been many folks that have bought and then didn't realize the up keep of these great vintage icons.
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Old 06-04-2006, 03:34 PM   #10
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Hi Ryan,

We bought a 1975 / 22 Argosy last November for 5K. Rear door, dual axle.
All systems worked well. We painted the exterior, got the Zip-Dee awning,
got new curtains, resurfaced the contertop, changed the bathroom sink.
Overall still under 10K total investment. Would not trade it for a new one.
It's awesome. Went to a RV show last month, and any 16 to 20 ft. white box
trailer cost between 15K to 20K. Belive me the Airstream/Argosy quality and
workmanship leaves them all in the dust.
Make sure it's in good shape & go for it dude!!
JB
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:23 AM   #11
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What is the difference between the Argosy and the Silver airstream besides the color?
I am interested in buying one or the other and found an argosy that is in good shape and affordable, but fear the white color!
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:37 AM   #12
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Looking into an Argosy

Greetings cdanz!

Welcome to the Forums!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdanz
What is the difference between the Argosy and the Silver airstream besides the color?
I am interested in buying one or the other and found an argosy that is in good shape and affordable, but fear the white color!
There aren't a tremendous number of differences between the Airstream and the first generation Argosy (1972-1979) othern than the fact that the Argosy is painted and had fewer luxury features as standard equipment. In fact, some of those differences can make the Argosy quite appealing depending upon your intended use. The following are among the differences that you will find:
  • The exterior front and rear Endcaps (domes) are single-piece, strech-formed galvanized steel rathern than the multiple piece aluminum utilized in the Airstream (this is one of the reasons that few tackle the process of polishing an Argosy).
  • The Argosy was equipped with deep-wrap front wing windows that wouldn't appear on the Airstream coaches for several years.
  • The Argosy is far less likely to have a front window rock guard than the Airstream, but it is a critical accessory today as the non-tinted wing windows are no longer available new, but can be replaced by the solar gray tinted that are currently utilized on Airstreams.
  • If the Argosy happens to be one of the 28' or 30' coaches with the rear bedroom, it also likely has the deep-wrap wing windows in the bedroom as well, something that Airstreams wouldn't offer until a few years later.
  • While not terribly significant, interior fabrics and upholstery were different from what was typically offered in Airstreams, but much of this related to the idea that these coaches were designed to appeal to a younger buyer who was looking for a mid-priced, quality RV.
  • Dinettes -- this can be a plus or a minus depending upon personal preference -- the Argosy is somewhat more likely to have a dinette than the front lounge layout more typical of Airstreams.
Other than the above, there are relatively few significant differences between the Argosy and Airstream coaches of the period.

What may be more important are the similarities, as these make the Argosy easy to maintain despite what some would consider its "orphaned" status:
  • The chassis is essentially the same thing utilized for a comparably sized Airstream including Henschen Dura-Torque axles and either Dexter or Kelsey Hayes electric brakes.
  • The flooring material is typically 3/4" plywood mirroring the Airstream -- certain Minuets (1977-1979) being the exception in that they carried an experimental aluminum composite flooring material.
  • The body has the same monque construction as the Airstream with pre-formed aluminum bows to which the interior and exterior skins are attached with rivets.
  • The Argosy coach utilizes the same name-brand appliances as similar Airstreams and many of its contemporaries in the market.
    • Magic Chef ranges -- usually with an oven below the cooktop.
    • Dometic Refrigerators -- unfortunately, these were only the 2-way rather than the 3-way that became available in competing makes about midway through the first generation of Argosy production.
    • Suburban Furnaces -- and even though this is an appliance that is often in need of replacement, modern equivalents are readily available.
    • Thetford RV toilets -- even if the original needs replacement it is possible to source a similar new Thetford with some measurement.
    • Univolt Power Converters -- while archaic in terms of today's technology it isn't terribly difficult to install a modern replacement -- and the same situation would be faced with a similar era Airstream as both line utilized the Univolt.
    • PAR (Peters and Russell) water pumps -- Airstream and Argosy were among the relatively few RVsutilizing these water pumps, but they are of exceptional quality and parts continue to be available such that it is possible to rebuild the original pump if it ceases to operate -- the rebuild is far less costly than replacing with a new pump of similar quality (IMHO).
    • Worthington Aluminum LP Tanks -- while not all Argosy coaches came with these, most were equipped with these rather than the more typical steel tanks -- this means that it makes economic sense to refit the tanks with OPD valves and recertify -- these tanks are much lighter to handle during the refilling process and with care can last nearly indefinitely.
    • The window/screen units (other than the deep-wrap wing windows) were similar if not identical to those utilized in the Airstream.
    • Air conditioners (when so equipped) were Armstrong Bay Breeze units that were similar if not identical to those utilized in similar sized Airstream -- when operational, these units are typically immently repairable provided you can find a heating and cooling technician who is willing to work on the unit -- the original manufacturer is no longer in the RV business, but repair parts can typically be cross-referenced by someone active in the field of A/C repair.
    • Water faucets and valves were of name-brand, quality manufacture, but may have been of a less-deluxe model line -- still quite servicable, however.
    • Tires/Wheels/wheel covers were of the similar if not the same manufacture as those carried on the Airstream -- in fact the the only difference between the wheel cover used on Argosy and Airstream during much of the first generation Argosy production was that the center was decorated on the Airstream model and plain on the Argosy model. The tires and steel wheels were identical to those found on similar Airstreams.
    • Holding tanks -- both waste and fresh were of comparable manufacture and size as those found on similar Airstreams.
If the coach that you are considering happens to be a Minuet, there are several additional differences. These differences do not impact quality or serviceability, but can make these coaches a more unique ownership experience:
  • The first and most obvious difference is that they were promoted utilizing Metric sizing.
    • The smallest was the single-axle Minuet 6.0 Metre (titled as 20').
    • The middle-sized coach was the single-axle Minuet 6.7 Metre (titled as 22').
    • The largest Minuet was the tandem-axle Minuet 6.7 Metre (titled as 24').
      • These coaches shared the distinction of being narrower than the standard line Argosy and Airstream.
        • Minuets were 7' wide.
        • Standard line Airstream and Argosy coaches were 7' 8" wide.
      • Most (but not all) 6.0 Metre Minuets, and some (but far from most 6.7 Metre coaches) had the aluminum composite floors which eliminate worries about floor rot that are present with coaches having plywood floors.
      • The side windows (other than the deep-wrap wing windows) were of "space-age" acrylic rather than glass (one of the weight-saving processes).
      • Air conditioning was optional, and at least on the 6.0 Metre Minuet, the wiring/structural prep package appears to have been an option so if the coach isn't equipped with air conditioning it would pay to check to see if it has the prep package if air conditioning is an important consideration.
      • All interior cabinetry was constructed utilizing vinyl-clad aluminum including doors -- other than the tambours which were of a plastic laminate.
You are located near one of the Vintage friendly Airstream dealers (Ace Fogdall RV in Cedar Falls, Iowa) -- they are quite helpful in sourcing parts and are quite accommodating when it comes to making repairs on our Vintage coaches. They have been instrumental in keeping both my Airstream and Argosy ready for the road!

Owning both an Airstream and an Argosy, I would be hard-pressed to choose a favorite. Each coach has its own personality.

Good luck with your investigation and decision!

Kevin
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Old 06-11-2006, 03:06 PM   #13
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Smile

Kevin,
Thanks for your reply and information. Althought the Argosy we saw had great appeal, we decided to purchase our parents 76 International (I believe) The only thing is it has set for 15 years, so they are checking out all the systems and need a replacement door, someone decided to try and break in and bent it up. I believe they took it to an auto repair guy to look at. The price at $3500 I believe is right.
I am eager to get it all set for the road. Although, they are headed out to Arizona to pick up their 1989 34' classic and won't return for a few weeks, so I have to dream of the one we are getting for a few weeks.

This forum is awesome!

Cheryl D. Future Airstream junkie.
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:12 AM   #14
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For the record I purchased a 1972 Argosy 22' in need of new copper plumbing 8 years ago.
Everything worked and still does thankfully but it needed a paint job and still does..

I am starting to do some renovations now to change the floor plan and I will replace and upgrade as I see the need and have it painted..

However back to the point.

We paid $3500 for it 8 years ago. I would pay more now knowing more about the trailer and having seen the difference in quality compared to some of the new designs that I have looked at.

Pulls easy and just the right size.

My wife calls it her 'I Love Lucy' trailer in reference to a Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz episode that featured them on a trip in a little round looking trailer.
She loves making new curtains and re-covering the cushions.

Great investment and I would espect it to be sellable for around $5 or 6K as it sits right now.
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