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NY2CA · 05-08-2014, 11:02 AM

Hi All, well as my title states Major Leak: I filled my fresh water tank; turned the pump on and open kitchen sink faucet and the next thing I hear is water streaming out of the back of my Argosy! Being new to RVs I did not see this special water feature of water raining out of the wall and bumper when I purchased her? Did I miss something or inadvertently cause this major leak by not following some step? I need advice and how to fix this as I can not see how to access the pipes in the wall behind the shower and toilet? Do I buy tools to remove the exterior skin or try to go in through the bathroom wall which is plastic? Kind of worried about the task ahead

Vicky

Jammer · 05-08-2014, 11:24 AM

Typically leaks occur at fixtures. Check the toilet valve and sink faucet and be sure the leak isn't originating there. Also check the water heater if it is in the same area. There are also may be low-point drain valves below the coach that could have been left open.

Photos would help. I don't know how the plumbing is laid out in a 1976. Often there are access panels, sometimes not.

NY2CA · 05-08-2014, 11:45 AM

Thanks Jammer, I looked at the toilet valve because it is in view next to the toilet or maybe that is for the sprayer? The sink valves in the vanity looked ok the water heater is in the roadside wall mid-trailer. I can take some pics of the bathroom and post; I can maybe make a video of the leaking if that would help but I am inclined not to wet the trailer again. Thanks again! Vicky

damonbeals · 05-08-2014, 12:35 PM

Did you winterize the trailer? If not then something froze during the winter and a pipe or fixture has burst. As you know the general area of the leak, turn on the water for a few seconds, and then feel all the pipes for water, that should lead you to the leak, or leaks. I bought a Argosy that had not been winterized, and it had two pipes that burst, and the shower fixture. The pipes where under the beds so I didn't see them when I inspected it.

Damon
#4827

Bex · 05-08-2014, 09:08 PM

I agree with Damon, sounds like a freeze. Might be a good time to replace the copper with Pex if it has not already been done

Bex

DryFly · 05-08-2014, 09:36 PM

So a couple of months ago I decided to fill my water tank and test my pump before heading out on a trip to CA. When i turned on the switch for the pump, I heard water flowing but had no faucets open. I switched off the pump and started crawling around expecting a lot of water somewhere in the trailer, likely hidden where it would do the most damage. I found nothing. Turned on the pump switch again and damn, there was water flowing somewhere. After a bit more exploration, I moved outside and found I had left the valve open on City water supply when I drained the system last winter. I was effectively back-flushing my system.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is, well, the simplest.

DryFly · 05-08-2014, 09:48 PM

NY2CA, I don't mean to minimize your plight -only trying to point you to a different possible solution. I hope it's not an internal leak from a burst pipe. If it is, I doubt you'll need to remove skin, you should be able to follow the plumbing lines and replace with PEX. These things were plumbed after the shell was placed on the frame, so you should be able to undo things without pulling too much apart.

NevadaGeo · 05-08-2014, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DryFly

So a couple of months ago I decided to fill my water tank and test my pump before heading out on a trip to CA. When i turned on the switch for the pump, I heard water flowing but had no faucets open. I switched off the pump and started crawling around expecting a lot of water somewhere in the trailer, likely hidden where it would do the most damage. I found nothing. Turned on the pump switch again and damn, there was water flowing somewhere. After a bit more exploration, I moved outside and found I had left the valve open on City water supply when I drained the system last winter. I was effectively back-flushing my system.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is, well, the simplest.

It could be simply a drain valve open, unless you've checked that out.

NY2CA · 05-09-2014, 12:12 PM

Hi All: Here is a pic of where the water was raining out of. I think that you guys are right in saying that it may have had a frozen pipe? I did not winterize cause the PO that sold me the trailer in Feb. said he has never had any problems like that? I can't see any valves other then the ones in the vanity under the sink. The piping that runs from the fresh water tank in the front of the trailer is copper and I had thought about going Pex from what I had be reading here on the forums. The pipes from the front are in the cabinets and sort of run parallel to the floor to the back of the trailer in the bathroom where they disappear? I looked at the city water inlet when the water was pouring out of the back and only a little came out when I uncapped it. In my panic state when the water was running out the back I uncapped the blank tank valve thinking that some catastrophic thing was going on....nothing happened with that thank goodness! I don't know if there is a city water shut off valve, I don't even know where to look as there seems not to be to many spots for one? Vicky

Bex · 05-09-2014, 02:26 PM

There might be a drain pipe under there. Or running through the bumper storage with a tap on it. Have you had a look for one?
Turn on the faucets in the bathroom, including the shower and then turn on the pump.
Is there any water pressure at the faucets? How about the shower?
If you turn off the shower and leave the taps running, does it increase in pressure?
I am just wondering if it can be determined by this, if the leak is shower or basin side?
Anyone else want to chime in on my thoughts?
I am more of the opinion its perhaps a drain valve open now.

NY2CA · 05-09-2014, 03:56 PM

Hi Bex, I ran outside to test your theory? Looked for drain valves but I still don't see any? I turned pump on again and the water came out from shower side bumper and belly pan. I turned on the faucet in bathroom sink water came out of it...closed it and turned on shower faucet; it too had water? I'm not sure what type of pressure it is suppose to have since I have never used them before? Here is a pic of pipes behind inverter/converter in cabinet under sink? This seems dangerous with water and electric in the same area...are most trailers like this or is it just mine? Thanks Vicky

Bill M. · 05-09-2014, 06:44 PM

Actually what I see there ia a water pressure regulator and the main cord in for the trailer. The converter should be at the front of the trailer near the batteries, Yes, it is common to route the main power cord near the pipes and regulator. I have not closely examined a rear bath model. My guess is that you have a split copper pipe in the wall. Copper is very susceptible to freeze damage. Maybe hook it up to a air compressor at about 50 lbs and listen for the hissing sound? You can buy a coupler at Camping World that screws on to the hose fitting for the water and that you can blow air through with a compressor. You can connect the air hose to that fitting with screw fittings or a quick disconnect allowing air compress to be connected to the system. One person can work that way. You need the fitting anyway to winterize next year. That way you can look for a as long as it takes and not flood the wall again. It would be good if you or someone could isolate the leaky line, plug it off, and then replace it with PEX without destroying the outside of the trailer or the bath.

NY2CA · 05-10-2014, 07:12 PM

Thanks Bill M, I certainly will order the air compressor fitting to look for the leak; your suggestion of it is a twofold boon as a leak finder and a devise that I will need to winterize the trailer with; so that I hopefully will not have to encounter this problem again in the future!

My gut feeling though is that the leak is behind the shower wall at the faucet which I think is going to make me have to take the shower apart or out?

I think that maybe the lesser of two evils; shower dismantle or remove exterior skin to get at pipes. I had seen online that I could purchase a new shower at Airstream Supply, pricey but the wall looks to be one unit? The shower that I have now is original and has a weird aluminum flashing at the seam? The PO's may have been going for a retro look I guess but may make functionality problematic if water gets in there. Also on closer inspection she looks to have had some type of incident that had been fixed long ago? Tree falling on her or backing into one? Don't know just old blemishes. I like the idea of vintage and staying with the original shower "pink" but it looks like replacement parts are hard to come by! If anyone has any thoughts on my task ahead I'm all ears!

Vicky

Jammer · 05-10-2014, 09:27 PM

I don't know the specifics of your trailer's layout. But in general terms, rather than fixing an inaccessible pipe, it often makes more sense to abandon it in place and run a replacement pipe in a location that is easier to reach.

Bex · 05-11-2014, 07:05 AM

Jammer has the solution, just need to find the leak.
I think you could pull the fitting apart at the shower.
Although I have not had to do it, I doubt pulling the shower/tub out is much of a problem, just got to be careful as it will be brittle I think.
When I replaced the copper with pex in ours there was no pipe running between the skins (outer/inner). The hardest part was behind the panel that was below the sink. Ours is a center bath though. That was a pain but doable. I would not be taking off the skin.
I have the complete workshop manual for the trailers and will see what I can find for you but I really dont think you need to pull down any aluminium panels.
In fact, you ought to be able to access the shower/faucet from the rear of the shower. Whats behind it? Must be the bed or a cabinet maybe?

Bex · 05-11-2014, 07:40 AM

One more thing to throw into the mix (sorry, but it needs to be addressed) and that is the ease with which the water is leaving the trailer. If it can get out, then it can also get in and you need to caulk that when the leak is fixed.
Also need to check for "rear end separation" for which there are many threads.

NY2CA · 05-11-2014, 03:59 PM

Hi Bex and Jammer, I have been crawling all around the trailer...I would like to do what you guys have suggested. I now think that the pipes can not be accessed through the back of the trailer and that they sit in the space behind the toilet and shower wall. They exit the cabinet and seem to go into the plastic wall/molding behind the toilet? So I think that the water sprayed from the leak down the inside skin/wall on to the grey water tank which I think is under the shower/floor into the belly pan, ran into the bumper and out the seam of exterior skin at the bumper. There are two large steel structure beams that the waste tanks sit between under the trailer? There is also sheet metal/belly pan that covers the tanks from the road. As for rear-end separation I must have looked like a crazy jumping up and down on the bumper when I was purchasing her; trying to see if it had any give or sag. LOL I weight about 135 lbs so I don't know if I could make the backend fall off, it looks to be straight? Do you think that if I cut the pipes that enter into that plastic wall behind the toilet will I be able to pull them out if unhooked from the shower faucet? Thanks, Vicky

Bill M. · 05-11-2014, 05:04 PM

I would not think a 76 would have a gray water tank?

Air-Texas · 05-11-2014, 05:52 PM

I had a 1977 Argosy that had the same leak. Your pipes run under the sink, and behind the plastic tub/shower, around to the wheel well under the twin bed, then into the kitchen.

Mine had a small door behind the curb side wheel well that opened, and you could see the pipes under the twin bed.

You might be able to get new PEX pipes into the same place that the old pipes are by threading them through, or by cutting the old pipes at both ends, and taping wire to one end, that you could then use to pull the new pipes into place.

NY2CA · 05-11-2014, 08:13 PM

Hi Bill M. and Tex-Air, This trailer has a grey water tank...or at lest it has a pull valve for it right next to the city water inlet. Actually I could not open it when I was freaking out thinking that the water was going in there? It is stuck; so that will be the next item to deal with after the leaking pipes.

All the water pipes on this trailer are on the roadside and run through the cabinets; over, under or behind the furnace in kitchen and the inverter converter in the bathroom? The hot water heater is also it the kitchen cabinet next to the furnace? Here is the floorplan model with a mock up of the pipes? I'm not the best at drawing with a finger pad lol! I will try to unscrew the shower faucet first sometime during the week and pick up red/blue pex if Home Depot has it. If I can thread the pex through the shower I maybe in business only up to the bath sink; in a previous post I posted a pic of the pipes in the corner under the sink that is a jumble with the pressure regulator and maybe city water inlet. not sure if I''m ready for that yet? Thanks, Vicky