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09-26-2015, 07:47 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Electrical Question
New owner to an older trailer! Last night I plugged in our "new" argosy and everything fired up, lights, humming converter, etc. I left it on to see if the fridge would cool on electric. I went back out about an hour or two later and everything was off. No breakers tripped. I unplugged the whole trailer to avoid any issues until morning. Any guidance on where to look for trouble spots? I was trying to read about the original converters and my first thought was that being the problem. There is no battery currently in the trailer. Does the converter have any kind of internal trip?
Thanks in advance for advice, as I have seen how helpful everyone is on this board!
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09-26-2015, 07:50 AM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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If you are plugged into the house, you may have thrown a breaker there. How many amps? was the outlet?
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09-26-2015, 07:53 AM
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#3
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Connection at the house is good. That was my instant thought but it is all god on that end. It is definitely somewhere in the trailer.
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09-26-2015, 07:58 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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When you say everything was off. There are 2 electrical systems in your trailer, 120 volt AC and 12 volt DC. What was off they we can go from there?
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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09-26-2015, 08:11 AM
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#5
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Just went out and replugged everything in. 120 outlets are working. 12 volt system is not working so lights, etc. are out. The converter that was humming nicely last night is now barely audibly humming. Is it dead?
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09-26-2015, 08:29 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Was there a good battery in the trailer before you started? Check the output side of the converter with a voltmeter. Sounds like the output fuses on the converter may have blown and the battery was dead to begin with.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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09-26-2015, 09:28 AM
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#7
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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No battery at all in the trailer yet. With no battery, it was all woking at first.
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09-26-2015, 11:39 AM
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#8
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Checked the output fuses, all good. Checked the output voltage and I'm only getting about 1 or so volts and like I said the converter is humming at a too quiet level now. Anyone have other thoughts, is the converter likely dead? (As a side note, the fridge is cool in great on electric!)
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09-26-2015, 12:42 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1991 34' Excella
Princeton
, New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,070
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Put a battery across the converter. There may be a circuit in the converter that shuts it off it it does not see a load.
__________________
WBCCI 12156 AIR 3144 WACHUNG TAC NJ6
2004 Excursion 4x4
1991 34 ft. Excella +220,000 miles, new laminated flooring, new upholstery, new 3200 lbs axles
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09-26-2015, 01:53 PM
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#10
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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Put a battery in and of course lights and 12v outlets etc work but don't think the converter is coin anything. Still getting a negligible hum rather than the original louder hum. I guess the outputs from the converter should be 12v?
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09-26-2015, 02:06 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island
, Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,667
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I think there are fuses in line with the battery, the converter output ,and the load center input. Did you find/check those?
Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
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09-26-2015, 02:58 PM
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#12
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1 Rivet Member
1975 Argosy 24
Swoope
, Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
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All fuses are in good working order. Just went out and checked voltage at a lot of points. All outgoing lines from the converter now read 12+- volts. Could this be a false reading due to the battery being hooked up or is the converter wired to only work when it picks up on a battery in line? Strange because last night I had no battery in at all and all 12 v lines were working and the converter was humming what I thought to be normally loud. Now it is humming pretty discretely (as in with a light drizzle I have to put my ear down to it to make sure it is humming). If I pull the fuse in line with the battery all 12v shuts down immediately. And the battery is reading 12.5 v or so which would seem to indicate some charging is happening especially as I am pretty sure it was not fully charged prior to plunking it in there. Any thoughts?? I also checked the ground that goes to the rear bumper and it is solidly grounded.
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09-26-2015, 03:07 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1966 17' Caravel
Currently Looking...
Las Cruces
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 577
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I am going to hazard a guess that the Univolt is a goner. They don't like having no battery to feed. The way the converter is wired usually has a 120V input to the converter and the 12V output is tied to the battery and the 12V input from the tow vehicle. Similarly, the ground is shared with the battery and the ground from the tow vehicle. A large fuse is usually placed in the positive feed to the 12V terminal/fuse bus. If the fuse to the 12V feed is blown, the battery won't feed the system so 12V still won't work. It's pretty simple (and a good idea) to replace the converter with a modern unit. The battery will love you for it.
__________________
1966 Airstream Caravel
2006 Toyota Tacoma
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09-26-2015, 03:29 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1966 22' Safari
Hilltop Lakes
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,764
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Suggest you get a modern, multi-stage converter to replace the one you have. The good ones recognize when the battery is charged and back off the current accordingly. The old ones just keep on charging and boil the battery dry.
Besides, the old Univolts produce "dirty" DC power that modern electronics don't like. A new converter will solve that problem also.
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10-03-2015, 08:15 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1972 Argosy 20
Snoqualmie
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 503
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Get rid of the Univolt, replace it with a modern multistage converter - Intellipower, Boondocker are 2 favored here on the forum - and install a battery. You may also need to replace the fuse panel at the same time. I didn't replace the fuse panel when I installed my new Intellipower, and recently paid the price for that oversite. Life will be good and no hum. There's a LOT of copper in the winding of the Univolt so be sure to recyle.
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10-03-2015, 08:59 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
1969 25' Tradewind
Shasta Lake
, California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,037
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Junk that Battery Boiler and save a bunch of weight and dirty DC .
I went with an Intela Power with smart pendent and a Gel Cell Battery .
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10-03-2015, 09:25 PM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Granbury
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 412
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The converter is not designed to carry the load you placed on it. You should never ever run without a charged battery. I suspect you fried the converter.
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10-03-2015, 11:13 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Vintage Kin Owner
Naples
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetmaker
The converter is not designed to carry the load you placed on it. You should never ever run without a charged battery. I suspect you fried the converter.
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Sorry, but your statement is not accurate.
Modern switch mode converters like those from Progressive Dynamics are designed to be fully operational WITHOUT A BATTERY. Their primary purpose is to provide 12VDC (nominal) power for the operation of the 12VDC loads in the trailer. Battery charging is a secondary function. No battery is necessary as a 'filter' like the older ferro-resonant converters AKA the dreaded Univolt!!!
The only legal reason a battery is required in the trailer is to activate the trailer brakes in the event of a catastrophic trailer separation from the tow vehicle that activates the trailer break-away switch.
Practically speaking, you need a battery for boondocking or operating almost everything in the trailer that needs 12VDC control voltage. If you intend to maintain your trailer as a permanent or semi-permanent installation, no battery is necessary while parked for the long term. If you put it back on the road, you surely need one then.
__________________
lewster
Solar Tech Energy Systems, Inc.
Victron Solar Components and Inverters, Zamp Solar Panels, LiFeBlue and Battle Born Lithium Batteries, Lifeline AGM Batteries
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10-04-2015, 01:03 AM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,632
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Lewster nailed most of the answer as he usually does nail it.
He just forgot to tell you that your univolt is dead. Putting the battery on is providing all your 12v now until it drains down and dies . If univolt was only putting out 1v before when you attach the battery the battery voltage is what you're now reading. Univolt will provide power without a battery in the loop, at least if it's working!
Don't leave the battery connected to long without something to charge it, you don't want to fully discharge it as this damages the battery.
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10-04-2015, 01:09 AM
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#20
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Rivet Master
1974 31' Sovereign
1979 23' Safari
Wayland
, New York
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,632
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Since I'm on my phone and can't see year or model trailer, are your fuses in the univolt or do you have a separate 12v fuse panel?
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