Owner of Andersen Hitches vandalizes in Arches NP

[WALL-E]

Originally Posted by pmclemore

Some folks say that modern inscriptions are just the same type of thing as the ones left by the ancients. However, what makes the old ones rare and valuable is that they are just hints of a civilization long gone.

In our case, we have left vast evidence of our presence all over the place. No rarity of our marks at all.

Pat

That's absolutely true, Pat: It's estimated that scores of similar arches were destroyed long ago by hoards of prehistoric hominids caravanning about in RVs.

[mojo]

Well there are instances of carved inscriptions and wheel grease art created by the first RV'ers at Inscription Rock, Capitol Reef, Snow Canyon and other spots on the Oregon and Santa Fe trails. Of course these RV's were covered wagons.

[McDave]

Who knows what the motivations were of the ancients who left the rock inscriptions? Probably not to send a message to us, but nothing can be ruled out. Easier to discern are the motivations of those who seek to destroy them: vanity (Napoleon or somebody shooting the nose off the Sphinx), religion (destruction of ancient artifacts by ISIS extremists), economics (theft and looting of ancient sites), or just because someone didn’t have anything more entertaining to do at the time (wonder who that could be?). In any event, as others have said, we are leaving plenty of messages to the future without creating more rock inscriptions.

[featherbedder]

Register cliff in Guernsey Wyoming that is on Oregon trail that has deep wagon ruts & names and states carved into rock other inscriptions also. Guernsey also was a main station for Pony express. In 1960 when I worked there was a small memorial on street corner. I don't no if any other thing to denote Pony Express since. The worlds foremost authority on Oregon Trail is Paul Henderson of Alliance Neb. that I worked on his crew for CBQ RR. in 1960. Paul Wrote several books and lectured at colleges all over the US. also was authority of Pony Express.

[PKI]

While the art of past cultures is facinating, the norms of our culture are to save and preserve the beauty of nature for others to experience in the future.

The defacement of public lands is a childish and selfish act that steals from the present and the future.

Pass the word. Pat

[Dan and Liz]

Originally Posted by featherbedder

Register cliff in Guernsey Wyoming that is on Oregon trail that has deep wagon ruts & names and states carved into rock other inscriptions also. Guernsey also was a main station for Pony express. In 1960 when I worked there was a small memorial on street corner. I don't no if any other thing to denote Pony Express since. The worlds foremost authority on Oregon Trail is Paul Henderson of Alliance Neb. that I worked on his crew for CBQ RR. in 1960. Paul Wrote several books and lectured at colleges all over the US. also was authority of Pony Express.

The Natural Fort north of Fort Collins was like that — until our government life forms blasted I25 through the middle of it.

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by PKI

While the art of past cultures is facinating, the norms of our culture are to save and preserve the beauty of nature for others to experience in the future.

The defacement of public lands is a childish and selfish act that steals from the present and the future.

Pass the word. Pat

Well said.

[Martee]

Notice the major differences between a 11,000 year old native Indian inscription and a 2018 National Park Inscription. The ancient inscription reveals drawings of local animals honored for difficulty of hunting or as the dominate tribal food source. Compare that to the 2018 National Park inscription which only reveals the personal name of the inscriber.

[Troutboy]

I can’t help to think that the ancients marked the stones as it was their way to prove they were there or make their mark, express themselves. It may also have been selfish motives. But times are different and cultural norms change. Back then, it was acceptable and there were no rules or other means by which to express themselves. So it is now past history or reminders of culture and the way it was. Cultural norms evolve as technology and times change. Today, we have so many ways to make our mark, or prove we were there, our mobile phones, social media, you name it.

The cultural norm has changed, there are rules and we now recognize that the pure number of those that could make a mark could overwhelm and and damage/destroy what we all love. Those who defile like this person did should deal with the consequences.

[Boxite]

There is ONE THING that I can appreciate about Ryan Andersen's defacement: It will be a FOREVER REMINDER OF WHAT AN ASSININE and SELFISH PERSON HE AND HIS PROGENY IS!

[Gene]

We have been exploring rock art and ancient Indian ruins near Bluff, Utah, in the past week. I have checked with various websites that show how to reach these places and note that items such as potsherds, corn cobs and metates that were there a few years ago are now gone. While many people have looted these sites for more than a century, even with the little that is left, they can't stop themselves. Recently some young people were caught who had defaced some rocks in Colorado NM (near Grand Junction) and other public lands. They just don't seem to get it until they are arrested.

Back in the 1990's and even before, we explored Canyonlands and Arches NP's and even then rangers would not help us find rock art because they knew some people defaced it or tried to break off the slabs of sandstone or other rocks the art was on. We had a early version of a Trails Illustrated Canyonlands map that showed the location of the rock art and found it, but at the request of the Canyonlands superintendent, Trails Illustrated removed the locations from the newer maps. Seeing pictographs like the All American Man and the Harvest Scene were high points of our hiking and are still memorable. I am writing this on the eve of our 30th anniversary—on our honeymoon we backpacked down into Canyonlands' Maze District where The Harvest Scene is located. I remember sitting and leaning against a tree eating some exotic foods we had brought to celebrate and gazing at The Harvest Scene for a long, long time. Many of you have seen photos of it—the ghost figures (no feet, so they appear to float), some with antennae on their heads. They date back before the Anasazi to the Fremont Culture (they have different names for these cultures now). Still well preserved after well over a thousand years. Since it is hard to get there, they are fairly safe from vandalism.

But in recent years the government has had to put fences around a lot of sites to prevent problems, removing a little of the natural feel of them. The internet has made is relatively easy to find ancient sites and thus to vandalize them. While camped down in the Maze, we saw only a few people over 3 days. I'm sure more are there now. Going to the Maze requires 4wd and good legs, so it remains difficult, but not close to impossible. Getting to ruins and art at Bears Ears NM near Bluff can be done with any vehicles and the ability to hike 2 or 3 miles—lots more people are viewing this and some are tempted. There are hundreds, maybe thousands in southeast Utah and adjacent states, some of which no one will tell you about to protect them.

The Andersens are no different than a lot of other people except most people are not so dumb and/or arrogant to so openly destroy something. Because they have some fame and were so dumb, the Andersens will play a price and the sales of their products will suffer too. Most people who just take stuff and write their names never get caught. That there are so many of them, it says something about our culture. People have long desired to make themselves known in their time and after they are gone. Vandalism is the lazy way to do it.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Gene

. . .
The Andersens are no different than a lot of other people except most people are not so dumb and/or arrogant to so openly destroy something. Because they have some fame and were so dumb, the Andersens will play a price and the sales of their products will suffer too. Most people who just take stuff and write their names never get caught. That there are so many of them, it says something about our culture. People have long desired to make themselves known in their time and after they are gone. Vandalism is the lazy way to do it. [emphasis added]

Well said, thanks!

The notion of Entropy comes to mind . . . the general trend of the universe toward death and disorder.

Sad to be witnessing this devolution!



Peter

PS -- A new article FYI -- no new information about charges being filed.

https://rvtravel.com/anderson843/

See link in Post #363 to follow future legal action from the Utah U. S. Attorney's office.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Martee

. . .
While in the National Parks, my kids say they will be keeping attentive to any potential type of graffiti involving the Andersen name.

Keeping Martee's suggestion prominent here, as the summer season kicks into gear, that we all should stay alert for folks who deface our public lands.

"If you see something, say something!"

Happy Trails,

Peter

[Gene]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Keeping Martee's suggestion prominent here, as the summer season kicks into gear, that we all should stay alert for folks who deface our public lands.

"If you see something, say something!"

Happy Trails,

Peter

Yes. I'd almost want to find the Andersen name, but where we are going is probably too much work for that guy.

One of the ruins (Fishmouth Cave) we may get to in thinnest few days has an inscription made by an 1892 expedition that made numerous discoveries in the Comb Ridge canyons and other nearby areas. It was a little known and poorly funded expedition, but did take artifacts and did their own graffiti. And there is rock art near the BLM campground a few miles from Bluff that includes Navajo and early settler inscriptions.

The difference between inscriptions in the past few centuries and the rock art of the 13th century and earlier is the Anasazi were decorating their homes.

Another type of graffiti is the type done by artists like Banksy and a few others that are really creative, though done on property that is not his. Most is more like tagging which is the least creative thing you can do.

Gene

[Airtandem]

question ? when Native Americans and others of a time period wrote on walls, rocks and etc. in that given time period; did people of that area consider it graffiti ??
mj

[Airtandem]

I am NOT condoning what he did, just a question.
mj

[OTRA15]

. . . doubt if their language or world view even included the notion of graffiti.

Most personal energy way back then was about SURVIVAL from hour to hour. Any extra time drawing on rock was more like early “art” if a label is needed.

Graffiti may be a new “First World” concept about which we have the luxury to banter!

[McDave]

The population has more than doubled in my lifetime alone. This has brought increased restrictions in order to live in more crowded quarters: walking on boardwalks rather than on sensitive meadows, not chopping down trees for firewood or to make a temporary lean-to, more control of littering, etc. Many of these were things we should have already been doing anyway, but like leaving a mark on a rock, really didn't matter that much if there were only a few people doing it.

[AlinCal]

There was lot's of nature to go around back then, today it is a precious resource that needs protection from morons like ANDERSON.

[sheriff1]

Originally Posted by AlinCal

There was lot's of nature to go around back then, today it is a precious resource that needs protection from morons like ANDERSON.

Andersen