Another accident...

[Boxite]

"Food for thought, anyone?", you asked...

Well... I can tell you if the fat-wallet in the Beemer cut in front of you and hit the brakes... IF he survives the rear-ending in which he's likely to become involved... He will also find HE IS THE ONE BEING CHARGED WITH THE CAUSE OF ACCIDENT! Courts have found that to be an exception to the rear-end accident scenario.

I suggest you help him lighten his wallet.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Boxite

"Food for thought, anyone?", you asked...

Well... I can tell you if the fat-wallet in the Beemer cut in front of you and hit the brakes... IF he survives the rear-ending in which he's likely to become involved... He will also find HE IS THE ONE BEING CHARGED WITH THE CAUSE OF ACCIDENT! Courts have found that to be an exception to the rear-end accident scenario.

I suggest you help him lighten his wallet.

That's not the case in every state. Some still believe the person doing the rear-ending is at fault, no matter what. Hopefully it will change.

[cabinetmaker]

Prayers lifted for this I'm sure sweet couple...hoping they heal back and can look ahead to the future with optimism. The vehicle and trailer can be replaced...so best wishes for a complete and full recovery and maybe another shot at your dreams of travels together.

I know I have again learned never to take anything for granted...the worst can happen at anytime. Day by day and try to do everything right and be safe as possible. Blessings!

[Sneakinup]

This is where dash cams are helpful in understanding what really happened... If you survive.🤔

[Foiled Again]

sneakinup -you are so right about dash cams! They can also be a great way to get a driver with sloppy habits to Improve dramatically. ...which may just mean that Junior doesn't drive until he is eighteen ...or occasionally a social drinker gets stark proof that she is actually a sloppy drunk. People eventually forget that the camerais there. Then... well let's watch what Actually Happened.

EVEN drivers with decades of experience often don't know some of the most basic stuff - like turningon headlights at early dusk is notdone so YOU can see better, but so that everyone else can see you better. Samefor turn signals. You ANNOUNCE your intentions so others can easily avoid you.

One of my best defences is to park during rush hour and choose the roads less traveled.

Paula

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

One more thing that I wanted to post but ran out of time.

An unloaded plain jane cargo Mercedes Sprinter van with one driver will stop from 40 mph in 66.5 feet. A loaded Mercedes Sprinter van with a driver and passenger, towing 4 tons of trailer at 60+ mph will stop in ???????

If a driver or number of drivers cut into line in front of the Sprinter thinking that that lane wasn't slowing down, and then it did. These poor souls didn't have a chance.

Hitch up the trailer, load it and your TV as you would normally. Find a deserted place and set out a flag. Drive at the flag at 60 mph, hitting the brakes as hard you dare once you reach the flag and then measure and do the math; subtract 90.5' for the Vette, leaving you with a 6" buffer and that's the distance you need to keep behind these kinds of cars. Prepare to be shocked.

Cheers
Tony

We don't know the circumstances of the accident, but the scenario described is daily fare as a truck driver. The solution is distance and a lower speed than surrounding traffic. Patience.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

This should be a stickie somewhere and required reading - at least annually - for all forum members.

Outstanding, Slowmover!

Thx. I do it for a living at present. Have on and off over twenty years.

Should have added another:

On a long day do any driving in the dark before daybreak. An early start. Confine ones hours of driving to, say, 0400 to 1600. I'm thinking of those long get-two-states-away days.

In the past twenty years we've seen even rural IH fill with cars and stay that way till past 2300. Have no idea who are these zombies, but the road doesn't clear of them and the last commercial traffic until 0200.

A travel set speed (cruise control on 62-mph) during periods of light traffic means a higher average rate of speed than that "slow" speed suggests. Once traffic builds, traversing 100-mile wide metro areas becomes slow. More likelihood of accidents. Etc. A 62-mph set speed can bring a higher average than 69 in the afternoon.

Driving past dark intensifies risk. Old man eyesight (past forty), slowed reactions from fatigue, and lessened interest in the act of driving mitigate against driving into the darkness (cue overture from Der fliegende Hollander).

IOW, don't leave Friday night after work. Get up early Saturday instead. Set camp and take a nap. Tell the dog to have a snack ready for everyone when you awake.

[MrUKToad]

Not to comment on this particular crash, but generally speaking, being in the left lane at speed on a busy highway is not where you want to be when you're hauling a few thousand pounds of aluminum behind you.

Stay right, keep your speed down and keep as much space between you and the surrounding vehicles as you can.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Interesting read from an article somewhere on Airforums. Look at the distances on page 3.



http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...mentid=22096&d...



Cheers

Tony

Thx. Had lost that. Note that hitch lash could be improved.

See MR TRUCK tests of TUSON antilock disc brakes on his and their sites. Note also that trailer drums fully rebuilt beforehand. And were still ruined.

[khollister]

Originally Posted by slowmover

We don't know the circumstances of the accident, but the scenario described is daily fare as a truck driver. The solution is distance and a lower speed than surrounding traffic. Patience.

I made the decision last year to start driving no faster the 65 MPH while towing unless I needed to get around something quickly to clear the left lane. I came from years of towing at 70-75 MPH, and made this decision for a number of reasons, but the biggest upside is that interstate travel is much less stressful due to all/most of the traffic passing me by as I plod along in the right hand lane, and the congestion is way in front of me and usually moving at least as fast as I am.

Assuming equipment in good order, proper set up and reasonable driving skills, the speed difference between 65 and 75 per se isn't the issue - it is the breathing room caused by having most of the traffic getting past you quickly and the rolling traffic jams happening way in front of you. The naturally occurring distance in front of you and the visibility of problems is the big win here. Even my wife, who has followed me in our Prius the last trip (good luck parking a truck in downtown Charleston), commented how much more relaxing it is and she may start driving that way even solo.

[gator.bigfoot]

Just watched a video on rules in Germany for the Autobahn and they have rules on the distance between vehicles. The rule of thumb is "half the tacho" which in kilometers and meters works out well. For example 100 km/h would have a distance of 50 meters between vehicles. In MPH it would roughly be 150 ft at 60 mph. They also have white markers along the highway that are exactly 50 meters apart just so you can judge your distance. And those rules are for people that are not towing.

Not sure if there is an equivalent for judging distance here in NA. We were always taught to keep certain car lengths or so many seconds.

In any case I'm certain that very few people in NA keeps any of those rules while driving. In Germany you will get a ticket for not keeping enough distance since many bridges have distance cameras on them. Perhaps if we all drove the way we were supposed to it would make for safer highways.


here is a link to the video:
http://www.focus.de/auto/videos/we-c...d_4855927.html

[jcanavera]

Limiting speed (60 mph) and leaving plenty of room in front of me is my credo when towing. Heavy traffic is especially concerning but I'll hang to the right or center lane and avoid that fast passing lane. In the course of a day's travel it doesn't make it worthwhile to drive at the higher speeds.

My only experience with a panic stop was actually a low speed situation. I had just left a gas stop and was driving on an access road heading back to the interstate. The road had been wet down by a light shower and I was traveling about 40 mph. I approached a traffic light that was already red and was gently slowing when I felt the anti-lock brakes on the van engage. At that point I was in trouble and felt that I would not be able to avoid hitting the car stopped at the light. At that point I pushed the brake pedal hard, not that this would help van brakes since anti-lock was already pulsing the brakes, but I wanted to maximize the trailer brakes. I have a Jordan brake controller which doesn't use inertial control but instead measures the amount of brake pedal travel and from that applies proportional power to the trailer brakes. It's an amazing system but unfortunately is out of production. Thankfully as best I can tell the controller provided enough voltage to maximize the trailer brakes, even though the trailer tires may have been locked also (I really don't know) and we slid to a stop with 2 feet to spare. Scared the heck out of me and I gained a whole level of respect for wet roads when towing. The Airstream stayed in line during the entire slide to a stop. It was all in slow motion like driving on ice.

In recollecting this event it all just came back and I swear I'm almost shaking again from that experience. The only equivalent is dodging the carcasses of two TT truck tires that came apart in front of me while on an Interstate. Thankfully I was doing 55 and had some good distance from the truck. At the time I was towing with an Oldsmobile Cutlass and a 21' Hi-Lo trailer. I turned so fast and sharply to miss the carcasses that the Hi-Lo violently swayed from one side to the other, but came back straight after the first oscillation. I pulled off the road shaking. I went back to the hitch and saw every thing was alright. I opened the door on the trailer and found that the contents of the cabinets were laying on the floor with the cabinet doors all popped open.

Jack

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Just watched a video on rules in Germany for the Autobahn and they have rules on the distance between vehicles. The rule of thumb is "half the tacho" which in kilometers and meters works out well. For example 100 km/h would have a distance of 50 meters between vehicles. In MPH it would roughly be 150 ft at 60 mph. They also have white markers along the highway that are exactly 50 meters apart just so you can judge your distance. And those rules are for people that are not towing.

50m between vehicles at 100 km/h is very close to the same distance that results from the 2 second rule that I was taught in driver's ed 40 years ago.

[RamblinManGa]

Hi from AZ. . . I do NOT do right lane ! All those folks barging in when coming on expressway are too annoying, i try to stay in center lane when possible. . . just sayin'. . . regards, Craig

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by RamblinManGa

Hi from AZ. . . I do NOT do right lane ! All those folks barging in when coming on expressway are too annoying, i try to stay in center lane when possible. . . just sayin'. . . regards, Craig

It depends. If you are on a metro freeway and the left lane is closed to big trucks then the center lane is the big truck "fast" lane (because there are always really slow commercial vehicles out and about), so now you've unnecessarily caused traffic to back up.

Being good at driving means being able to adapt.

I, too, prefer not to have to mix with entering traffic. They illegally tailgate each other onto the road where traffic present has ROW.

But that can be the best solution. I'd rather have idiots in front of me than some of today's overworked and underpaid big truck drivers jammed up behind me.

Unless you'd someday like to be in the feature video on the evening news? Eyewitless News, and tragic traffic. If it bleeds, it leads.

One might travel easily all day at 62-mph in a 70 rural stretch. But traffic collapses in on itself in metro areas. At construction zones. Where two roads merge, which is my guess for the thread. Etc. Might only be doing 48 for quite a few miles. Have to slow well in advance to do it well.

Adaptation to conditions and maintaining space cushion is how million milers do it.

[jimmini]

Back on my soap box.
When I drive back and forth from Atwater CA to Mesa AZ not towing I go CA-99,I-5 I-210,I-10 thru LA on Sat not during the week days.667 miles and 10/11 hrs driving time
When towing I go CA-99,CA-58,I-40,US-95,I-10 it is about 20 miles longer but a lot safer when you can not tow over 55 MPH in CA and no LA traffic.688 miles and 13/14 hrs driving time.
AND BUY your gas in AZ it is .50 to .70 cents a gallon cheaper in AZ.
BE BRAVE,BUT NEVER TAKE CHANCES WHILE YOUR DRIVING.IT'S A LONG ROAD THAT HAS NO BENDS.

[cwf]

Happens to everyone.. even professionals it seems...

Looks like he hurried to pass, entered exit too fast and may have had a gust of wind to top off the process.. the video seems to show wind moving the grass... or was traffic generated. But he was darn too fast. If he had slowed to allow other truck to merge (he was going to slow anyway to exit.. lots of guessing... except for the damage.
https://youtu.be/4N1894r7TTA

[Boxite]

Yep. He had a "I'm more important than anyone else out here" attitude.

The exit sign clearly shows a 20 mph exit speed limit and he's doing 40 or greater.

[slowmover]

The truck that rolled had right of way into the combination exit/entry lane. First truck failed to yield. There's no ROW on entering a roadway. A number of mistakes. Bad habits.

Moving over (left) by one truck to accommodate an entering truck is only a courtesy. Never a requirement. Big trucks are rockets today compared to 1970s diesels. An almost outdated habit. I've seen it used dangerously to move away from vehicle on shoulder. Another courtesy, but one which can have ugly consequences. (Always have more than ten feet from parked vehicle to roadway).

That bad habit may have meant that he no longer had exit lane to slow adequately prior to ramp curve. Turn signal was on. Truck entering roadway failed to yield. Stopped if necessary.

Driver who rolled should have bypassed exit. Too fast, and failure to anticipate an idiot truck driver or others out of his line of sight (who can't keep trailer inside stripes on ramp; also too fast for condition and skill level. Over a little is one thing, but that far means he's a steering wheel holder). It's why this entry/exit is segregated from main road.

Transitions are always a problem. This illustration, or in wind direction & velocity. Dry to wet pavement. Great sight lines to lousy ones. Evening into night. Mid-day into rush hour.

Here's one I've been looking at lately: in stop & go on an expressway, is it the second or third full stop where 99% of car drivers switch bulk of attention over to the phone? I'm figuring third full stop at present. Distance moved between stops not germane.

It's also where bitching, lying and cutting up on the CB becomes funniest. Stress relief. In a strange city it's always good to ask whether this is the norm for this time of day in this direction. One can usually find out at what mile marker it will dissipate. Apps like Waze only partially useful once one learns what to ask.

.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The truck that rolled had right of way into the combination exit/entry lane. First truck failed to yield. There's no ROW on entering a roadway. A number of mistakes. Bad habits. ....

I believe you are incorrect in that assessment, Slowmover.
The truck that rolled only had ROW to enter the left-lane, which the right-hand truck allowed. He had no right to cross a parallel lane to make the cloverleaf.
The truck that rolled should have slowed to pass behind the right-hand truck if he intended to make the clover-leaf. In actuality, he changed-lanes with insufficient spacing and also signaled insufficiently (req'd 150' or two vehicle lengths in most states). He did not.

He may have also been fighting a shifting cargo in that turn, which brings into consideration other errors made by that driver.