Another accident...

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

The items "on the roof" look like support braces the fire department put in place to stabilize the Sprinter so it wouldn't roll any more while they extracted the driver and passenger.

Yes, I saw those support braces running up and down on a diagonal. At their top ends, however, they seem to stop at a longitudinal structure that could be part of an awning or a roof rack. Maybe nothing, but in a few of ALL the pictures on the Internet, it does seem like something extra is on the roof.

To put it another way, the roof does does not look exactly clean, and the FD braces are lodged against something.

No point in further speculation.

Prayers for the Meadows' recovery.

[jimmini]

In aircraft when you have a emergency rule #1 someone has to fly the aircraft while others take care of the emergency check list or you have a crash.
When driving and towing a Airstream the drive has to do it all. On roads with more than 2 lanes I NEVER get in lane #1 the fast lane,I try and use 2 nd from right where I do not have to deal with traffic that is entering or exiting to or from ramps.It will also give me a lane on my right and left to try to escape to if I fail to drive defensively. The best defense is always keeping your distance, do not speeding and DO NOT over load you rig. Since I use ST tires I cruse on open roads at 60 MPH.
In CA towing speed limit is 55 MPH and truck 3 axles and over is 55 MPH so all CA car drivers drive in left lane all the time even when they get to AZ where speed limit may be 75 MPH.In AZ on 4 lane road 2 each way the left lane is for passing only. AZ has even put up signs saying that but many do not read or heed.
All states have second-rate men and women who are always in favor of rash and extreme measures,but California is absolutely overrun by them.

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by PKI

Towing is dangerous. Be careful out there folks. Pat

Towing is dangerous... if the driver ignores their own limitations, ignores the limitations of their equipment, ignores their environment and/or fails to give driving their full attention.

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by overlander63

"Dodge Sprinter", looks like SRW, so possibly a 5,000 pound tow capacity, and what looks like a fairly large, tandem-axle Airstream.

We used to own a 2009 Freightliner badged Sprinter SOB Class B. Yes, tow capacity was theoretically 5,000 lbs, with a hitch weight of 5,000. I don't recall the GCWR, but if you added a 25' Airstream to it, you'd have to be at the max or darn close.

I'm very sorry for these folks in this accident and hope they recover soon.

[lsbrodsky]

Actually, I am surprised that we do not see more accidents when I see all the towables flying down the road, some even swaying as they pass me.
I drive 55-60 because that is where I am most comfortable, there is no hurry, and gas mileage is optimal. I find hauling an Airstream stressful. I am always looking as far as I can see, scanning, expecting someone to pull in front of me, brake too quickly, or force me to brake. These kinds of things happen every time I am out. It takes much more effort than driving my car on the same roads at a higher speed.
I had some local friends roll their Airstream last year because they did not know what could happen and could not correct when it did. It's scary out there, everyone be careful!
Larry

[jokila]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

Towing is dangerous... if the driver ignores their own limitations, ignores the limitations of their equipment, ignores their environment and/or fails to give driving their full attention.

Many people do not know what they don't know. Simply put, they don't know if they are exceeding their limitations. The margin for error is little when you lose control of your vehicle with a trailer following behind.

jimmini's points about which lane to drive in is huge to me.

I do some of that even when i don't have a trailer. For example, when I see slow drivers driving in the right most lane that usually involves people entering and exiting the freeway I think to myself of all of the chances that are being taken for each event. Why do that? It's adding lots of risk.

There is no training for how to handle losing control of the rig for most people. Prevention through anticipation of a situation is the answer. Anticipate stops. Anticipate what will happen if someone darts in front of you.

Remember those defensive driving videos? They actually mean a lot more when pulling a trailer. Sometimes situations are unavoidable though and in those cases you can't be in a hurry. You have to make yourself seen better. Lights on. Anticipate the idiot drivers, leave yourself an out of the lane if necessary.

How many of you actually are engaged at all times like that? I think driver limitation can be complacency because it's a long haul and boredom sets in. What's your copassenger doing? Reading, sleeping? No one helping you to be engaged? It happens.

[Airtandem]

I was taught (drivers ed) maintain 1 car length for every 10 mph from the vehicle ahead of you and double that when towing. The "idiots" think I am leaving that space for them. I just had several incidents where someone passed me only to cut me off to exit the highway.
mj

[Foiled Again]

As a single woman I can REALLY appreciate how much help a good co-pilot could be. I updated the truck's GPS recently but still got bad directions due to ongoing construction and signage that was missing or confusing.

Recently I saw a 70's Airstream being towed southbound out of Atlanta at over 80 MPH. There is a line between confidence and stupid.... IMHO that driver went aboit 20 MPH past that line.

[slowmover]

Anytime you're surrounded by other vehicles on a rural IH you've screwed up. It's really that simple.

Loss of control accidents are the norm. Inadequate TT brakes and poor vehicle dynamics only make things worse.

200' or more from the guy in front of you. And he's moving faster. 700' and all is well.

If intrusion into this space occurs, cancel the cruise control until that 200' is back. And growing.

Under 100' and you'd better be hard on those brakes. Trailer drum brakes fade out pretty quickly.

If you run 62-mph or slower, virtually no problems occur outside of occasional braking space intrusion. It's easy travel.

Run with headlights on.

Test braking distances. What maneuvers you can do and at what speeds. Etc.

Tailgaters are a fact of life. Stupidity level on IH is worse every year. I have an especial love of those who cut in on me far too soon from the left lane because someone faster is behind them. There is no ROW in the left lane.

A combined vehicle with what most around here consider adequate hitch lash-up and running faster than 63 means lane changes plus increased brake and acceleration events. Not good by any measure.

There's no point in running with 63-65/mph truck traffic. And especially not higher with idiot four wheelers running at or around upper limit.

Average travel speed won't increase much with a higher set speed. Mainly an increase in risk over a reduction of time spent traveling.

On a 300-mile day there is no significant time "saved". Measure it for yourself. It ain't rocket science: engine run time versus miles from start to finish.

Plan all stops in advance of the trip. Confirm that GPS isn't going to take you off the biggest road too soon, etc.

[xrvr]

Great post, especially for newbys.

[boondockdad]

Taking all necessary precautions to minimize risks is never a bad idea.

But, fact is towing a travel trailer at highway speeds is inherently risky, and accidents happen.

Sorry as heck for all involved. Prayers for recovery.

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Anytime you're surrounded by other vehicles on a rural IH you've screwed up. It's really that simple.

Loss of control accidents are the norm. Inadequate TT brakes and poor vehicle dynamics only make things worse.

200' or more from the guy in front of you. And he's moving faster. 700' and all is well.

If intrusion into this space occurs, cancel the cruise control until that 200' is back. And growing.

Under 100' and you'd better be hard on those brakes. Trailer drum brakes fade out pretty quickly.

If you run 62-mph or slower, virtually no problems occur outside of occasional braking space intrusion. It's easy travel.

Run with headlights on.

Test braking distances. What maneuvers you can do and at what speeds. Etc.

Tailgaters are a fact of life. Stupidity level on IH is worse every year. I have an especial love of those who cut in on me far too soon from the left lane because someone faster is behind them. There is no ROW in the left lane.

A combined vehicle with what most around here consider adequate hitch lash-up and running faster than 63 means lane changes plus increased brake and acceleration events. Not good by any measure.

There's no point in running with 63-65/mph truck traffic. And especially not higher with idiot four wheelers running at or around upper limit.

Average travel speed won't increase much with a higher set speed. Mainly an increase in risk over a reduction of time spent traveling.

On a 300-mile day there is no significant time "saved". Measure it for yourself. It ain't rocket science: engine run time versus miles from start to finish.

Plan all stops in advance of the trip. Confirm that GPS isn't going to take you off the biggest road too soon, etc.

Thanks for this list.

You just can't get too many opportunities to consider making the road a little safer for you and your loved ones, as well as everyone else on the road.

[GCinSC2]

Space cushioning, following distances always critical and sometimes challenging to maintain. Now add the what distance am I really following at, 300 ft 150 ft or what?

Years ago I did teach motorcycle safety classes and the book required using time between vehicles not estimating distances. When the vehicle ahead passes a fixed object you start one Mississippi two etc.

I checked and looks like still recommended for cars, now just add an extra second while towing. Maybe make it a 3 second space cushion.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&...k1.dgn5sykK2SU

[OTRA15]

With drivers getting more distracted by the year, it seems, the old rule of one car length of separation for every 10 MPH is not enough, especially while towing a trailer. Plus, you have to leave enough extra room for all the cars which are following too closely, both ahead of and behind you.

Unfortunately, if you add up all the needed separations [plural], you end up with such a large space that aggressive drivers will use that space to dart in and out of traffic, in order to shift lanes to "get ahead" of things.

A constant struggle! Which is why "slow and steady" in the right lane is often the best path through the maze IMO. Or the middle lane if there are three lanes available on a major Interstate.

[slowmover]

Those numbers in my last post were what I use from radar in big truck.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Anytime you're surrounded by other vehicles on a rural IH you've screwed up. It's really that simple.

Loss of control accidents are the norm. Inadequate TT brakes and poor vehicle dynamics only make things worse.

200' or more from the guy in front of you. And he's moving faster. 700' and all is well.

If intrusion into this space occurs, cancel the cruise control until that 200' is back. And growing.

Under 100' and you'd better be hard on those brakes. Trailer drum brakes fade out pretty quickly.

If you run 62-mph or slower, virtually no problems occur outside of occasional braking space intrusion. It's easy travel.

Run with headlights on.

Test braking distances. What maneuvers you can do and at what speeds. Etc.

Tailgaters are a fact of life. Stupidity level on IH is worse every year. I have an especial love of those who cut in on me far too soon from the left lane because someone faster is behind them. There is no ROW in the left lane.

A combined vehicle with what most around here consider adequate hitch lash-up and running faster than 63 means lane changes plus increased brake and acceleration events. Not good by any measure.

There's no point in running with 63-65/mph truck traffic. And especially not higher with idiot four wheelers running at or around upper limit.

Average travel speed won't increase much with a higher set speed. Mainly an increase in risk over a reduction of time spent traveling.

On a 300-mile day there is no significant time "saved". Measure it for yourself. It ain't rocket science: engine run time versus miles from start to finish.

Plan all stops in advance of the trip. Confirm that GPS isn't going to take you off the biggest road too soon, etc.

This should be a stickie somewhere and required reading - at least annually - for all forum members.

Outstanding, Slowmover!

[jimmini]

NEVER trust your GPS as your primary nav. Look at a map before you start Know where your going and use GPS for back up. Look at what happened last week at the Grand Canyon to a girl that followed her GPS down a road that was not there till she ran out of gas. She was lucky she was found 5 days later.
Someone said they had drivers ed.YEP it WAS good BUT most folks did not remember much after that,they come down a on ramps at 30 MPH and try to get in with drivers doing 65 MPH. HAY push on the gas, go down the ramp so you are doing 65 when you get to the traffic.When you get off DO NOT slow on the freeway slow when you get on off ramp, HAY Supped drivers use your turn single.
Back in 1950's truck driver use to be pro drivers now their no better than the other dumb bunnies drivers on the road.
I also hate the stupid people that pass on the right,I guess they missed that class in driver ed.
Remember the road has more BAD driver than good ones.The bad one's do not give a damn about any one but them self,so keep your eye and MINE on the road, stay off your phone and stay alive.
LOL: Only in dumb California where the Government has no respect for the law would they think of make a law to put a lane on their roads for drunk drivers and the drunks would have to stay in that lane.

[Isuzusweet]

Just one more thing to slowmover's list....and a possible explaination for the accident.

If the vehicle in front of you, or cutting in front of you is a Porsche, Mercedes, Volvo, Bentley, Audi, some VW's or any other Uber sedan, SUV or sportscar, get on the brakes NOW! These cars are equipped with the biggest rotors, multi piston callipers, pre tensioning of brake pads and the biggest stickiest tires.

If they hit the brakes and you haven't.....it's too late. Notice I wrote "hit the brakes", if they throw the anchor out, you haven't got a chance. A Corvette 60-0 is 90 feet!

http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-be...nces-recorded/

Now look at this graph

Speed Perception/Reaction Distance
40 mph 59 feet
50 mph 73 feet
60 mph 88 feet
70 mph 103 feet

In the time that you perceive and react to the Corvette throwing out the anchor, the Corvette is at a dead stop in front of you two feet later; which means you have the original distance between you and the Vette, plus two feet in order to come to a complete stop.

The same would hold true for bikes, but bikers know full well that hammering the brakes in front of 6+ tons is going to end up worse for them. Dead men can't sue.

Food for thought anyone?

Cheers
Tony

[Isuzusweet]

One more thing that I wanted to post but ran out of time.

An unloaded plain jane cargo Mercedes Sprinter van with one driver will stop from 40 mph in 66.5 feet. A loaded Mercedes Sprinter van with a driver and passenger, towing 4 tons of trailer at 60+ mph will stop in ???????

If a driver or number of drivers cut into line in front of the Sprinter thinking that that lane wasn't slowing down, and then it did. These poor souls didn't have a chance.

Hitch up the trailer, load it and your TV as you would normally. Find a deserted place and set out a flag. Drive at the flag at 60 mph, hitting the brakes as hard you dare once you reach the flag and then measure and do the math; subtract 90.5' for the Vette, leaving you with a 6" buffer and that's the distance you need to keep behind these kinds of cars. Prepare to be shocked.

Cheers
Tony

[Isuzusweet]

Interesting read from an article somewhere on Airforums. Look at the distances on page 3.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...mentid=22096&d...

Cheers
Tony