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Old 04-02-2017, 10:03 AM   #57
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Happens to everyone.. even professionals it seems...

Looks like he hurried to pass, entered exit too fast and may have had a gust of wind to top off the process.. the video seems to show wind moving the grass... or was traffic generated. But he was darn too fast. If he had slowed to allow other truck to merge (he was going to slow anyway to exit.. lots of guessing... except for the damage.
https://youtu.be/4N1894r7TTA
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:29 AM   #58
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Yep. He had a "I'm more important than anyone else out here" attitude.

The exit sign clearly shows a 20 mph exit speed limit and he's doing 40 or greater.
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Old 04-02-2017, 02:26 PM   #59
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The truck that rolled had right of way into the combination exit/entry lane. First truck failed to yield. There's no ROW on entering a roadway. A number of mistakes. Bad habits.

Moving over (left) by one truck to accommodate an entering truck is only a courtesy. Never a requirement. Big trucks are rockets today compared to 1970s diesels. An almost outdated habit. I've seen it used dangerously to move away from vehicle on shoulder. Another courtesy, but one which can have ugly consequences. (Always have more than ten feet from parked vehicle to roadway).

That bad habit may have meant that he no longer had exit lane to slow adequately prior to ramp curve. Turn signal was on. Truck entering roadway failed to yield. Stopped if necessary.

Driver who rolled should have bypassed exit. Too fast, and failure to anticipate an idiot truck driver or others out of his line of sight (who can't keep trailer inside stripes on ramp; also too fast for condition and skill level. Over a little is one thing, but that far means he's a steering wheel holder). It's why this entry/exit is segregated from main road.

Transitions are always a problem. This illustration, or in wind direction & velocity. Dry to wet pavement. Great sight lines to lousy ones. Evening into night. Mid-day into rush hour.

Here's one I've been looking at lately: in stop & go on an expressway, is it the second or third full stop where 99% of car drivers switch bulk of attention over to the phone? I'm figuring third full stop at present. Distance moved between stops not germane.

It's also where bitching, lying and cutting up on the CB becomes funniest. Stress relief. In a strange city it's always good to ask whether this is the norm for this time of day in this direction. One can usually find out at what mile marker it will dissipate. Apps like Waze only partially useful once one learns what to ask.

.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:15 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
The truck that rolled had right of way into the combination exit/entry lane. First truck failed to yield. There's no ROW on entering a roadway. A number of mistakes. Bad habits. ....
I believe you are incorrect in that assessment, Slowmover.
The truck that rolled only had ROW to enter the left-lane, which the right-hand truck allowed. He had no right to cross a parallel lane to make the cloverleaf.
The truck that rolled should have slowed to pass behind the right-hand truck if he intended to make the clover-leaf. In actuality, he changed-lanes with insufficient spacing and also signaled insufficiently (req'd 150' or two vehicle lengths in most states). He did not.

He may have also been fighting a shifting cargo in that turn, which brings into consideration other errors made by that driver.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:00 PM   #61
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sneakinup -you are so right about dash cams! They can also be a great way to get a driver with sloppy habits to Improve dramatically. ...which may just mean that Junior doesn't drive until he is eighteen ...or occasionally a social drinker gets stark proof that she is actually a sloppy drunk. People eventually forget that the camerais there. Then... well let's watch what Actually Happened.

EVEN drivers with decades of experience often don't know some of the most basic stuff - like turningon headlights at early dusk is notdone so YOU can see better, but so that everyone else can see you better. Samefor turn signals. You ANNOUNCE your intentions so others can easily avoid you.

One of my best defences is to park during rush hour and choose the roads less traveled.

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I don't agree with saying under 18 could be bad as almost all farm kids start driving some form of powered vehicle long before into high school, some people will never be safe driver at any age. I rec. driv. Lic. at 15 yrs. old and was well qualified. I learned on mud roads up to running boards plus farm equip. also both sons started driving very young then both pro. racers at speeds up to 150 mph some times faster. Oldest at 16 youngest 15 yrs. old neither could not obtain driv. lic. as not old enough.
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:37 PM   #62
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I don't agree with saying under 18 could be bad as almost all farm kids start driving some form of powered vehicle long before into high school, some people will never be safe driver at any age. I rec. driv. Lic. at 15 yrs. old and was well qualified. I learned on mud roads up to running boards plus farm equip. also both sons started driving very young then both pro. racers at speeds up to 150 mph some times faster. Oldest at 16 youngest 15 yrs. old neither could not obtain driv. lic. as not old enough.
They don't make kids like they used to. What we went through growing up would be child abuse nowadays.
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Old 04-03-2017, 04:02 PM   #63
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I believe you are incorrect in that assessment, Slowmover.
The truck that rolled only had ROW to enter the left-lane, which the right-hand truck allowed. He had no right to cross a parallel lane to make the cloverleaf.
The truck that rolled should have slowed to pass behind the right-hand truck if he intended to make the clover-leaf. In actuality, he changed-lanes with insufficient spacing and also signaled insufficiently (req'd 150' or two vehicle lengths in most states). He did not.

He may have also been fighting a shifting cargo in that turn, which brings into consideration other errors made by that driver.
Not going to take this too far. The way I saw it was:

Truck A traveling cloverleaf from HIGHWAY X doesn't have ROW.

It's an entrance ramp. Truck B had signal on (so far as I could tell).

These two lanes segregated from main traffic flow to have entering and exiting traffic in isolation from main road, but it's still Highway Y. Thus an entrance ramp. The ramp is obligated to slow, to stop, to yield. Traffic on cloverleaf is isolated. Safely. Stopped if need be. Traffic on Highway Y is at great risk if vehicles start piling up.

Other problems bigger (speed and bad judgment), but failure to yield is contributory. I would disagree that this is a protected entrance without a stated or implied yield. (I really didn't like the way he was driving. Didn't give a damn).

Agreed Truck B screwed up. But slamming the brakes to get behind miscreant would have been a bad move. He was going too fast even if no other traffic present. YET if he could have entered lane without interference, he could have burned enough speed to have made it onto ramp. Bad driving in every scenario. But I doubt he'd have rolled. (If that is to be definition of "success").

Both these guys give truck drivers bad names.

One only gets to (relatively) "go fast" when there is plenty of space ahead and beside one (as well as little overtaking traffic from behind). There's just no point otherwise.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:41 PM   #64
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Slowmover, I appreciate your viewpoint but let's pretend the right-hand truck was not even present!

The left hand truck was travelling too fast for taking that right-turn. He was not slowing-for-the lane-change and enter-the-turn.

He rolled due to his speed...the right hand truck did not interfere with him in any way, as he made the poor decision to maintain his speed entering the curve. He kept that high-speed in an example of poor decision-making in an effort to be ahead of the right-hand truck. Had he instead slowed to the POSTED 20 mph turn-lane, he would have passed behind the right-hand truck and no accident would have occurred.

Kudo's to the right hand driver for stopping and running to assist.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:14 PM   #65
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good reason to have a dash cam hooked up and recording. Would be interesting to see a dash cam of this accident.

I drove cross country OTR 18 wheeler as a 25 yr old and you learn real quick to allow distance, look up the road not 2-3 cars but 10-20 or as far as i can see.. Nice thing about, at the time, a cab over tractor is you are a foot or so higher than the current tractors so seeing what is down the road as a breeze.

My current TV is a 2003 ford f-250 SD which is some what taller than most cars so getting a good view is not too hard.

When i see brake lights any where in front i got off gas and get foot over brake pedal ready to "thow out the anchor" if needed and have hand on trailer brake ready to clamp it down as well..

I try to stay out of major road areas from 3 pm on till 7 or so due to traffice.



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That's not the case in every state. Some still believe the person doing the rear-ending is at fault, no matter what. Hopefully it will change.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:55 PM   #66
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They don't make kids like they used to. What we went through growing up would be child abuse nowadays.
"Adults" have been making this complaint about the younger generation since time immemorial. At least the complaint makes for a good sketch:
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:49 PM   #67
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Yorkshire men!!?? Hahahah they had it sooooo good! Probably thought leaks were n an Airstream were unimportant!!! Wow... decent comedy.. it is a breath of old, fresh air!

Glad the discussion took off around our individual responsibilities...

When we choose to drive, we should realize we are the PIC.. pilot in command. We have full responsibility to control our hardware and our responses to the fluid environment of the road. The trucker experience and our own thoughts speak a great deal.

Perhaps in light of the above we can take a deep breath... lose the lumps, not the lessons.

Of course all "accidents" have elements of disaster... and our own failings contribute to results.

We all make thousands of decisions every moment.. especially when in stressful situations,,. But we may become "wheel holders"... freeze up...because we run out of acceptable actions.

So, opening our thoughts to the possibilities.. good and bad...

Practice. When flying, riding Motorcycles.. or Airstreaming, practice. Remember, keep flying until everything stops for about 30 seconds... to do that you must have the "muscle memory"... and know how to fly to begin with!!

Slowmover is a longtime professional driver. Others have lots of "survival" stories.. as said before, every moment you live, you are learning. Honest evaluation of our own "survival" history is worthy of reflection.

The OP and the theme is drawing our focus to open up to all the possible decisions...which we must call up and execute timely and properly. To do that.. practice. Observe.. react.

There are "RV drivers education".. good for everyone...
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