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Alumaholic · 10-24-2019, 07:15 PM

I hope your neighbor has erected a shrine devoted to DBJ and revised his Will.
I was astounded when I discovered the 1/2" plywood floor in my '76 Sovereign. This unbelievable discovery killed my plans for a dinette. (Who knew that the gaucho was a structural component in the '76 Airstream?)
And Post #16 provoked this flood of suppressed memories of what I found when I removed the rear pan on my '76 Safari 23'. Same exact rusting rear cross-member!

steinVT · 10-24-2019, 07:37 PM

Hi David,
Glad I found your new thread. Always enjoy following along with your work. - Mark

wcronin4 · 10-25-2019, 06:01 AM

David

I had to extend floor support members into the lvg area when my frame was made. I couldn’t believe AS used 1/2 ply.

Some folks on the forum replace the 1/2 with 3/4 and use a router to rabbit the edges to 1/2 to fit into the c channel. I was afraid to do that because the additional 1/2 of floor height would create problems with the fit of interior parts.

I think the “light” design of the late 70s trailers and super light frames left much to be desired, in my humble opinion.

Bill

dbj216 · 10-25-2019, 07:09 PM

I'm very happy you Airstream Forums friends found my project thread. I'm going to need all the support I can get.

Alumaholic: We Airstream owners enjoy helping each other out. My friend is giving this old man something to do this winter. I need that. You are right that these lightweight 70s trailers are a "river of tears" with rust and other problems. But they are vintage Airstreams and can be made better. I'll guarantee you your 2019 Flying Cloud is much better built.

Wcronin4: I can see now why Airstream thought 1/2" ply would be "goot enuf". The extra frame supports generally leave the plywood bridging maybe 2'x2', except in the rear bath and in the front room. It is way too much work to revert back to 3/4" plywood. My wife's 86 Limited is OSB, that is even a worse subfloor material in my view.

SteinVT: I can never match your restoration of your Safari. But I'm glad you are following along this winter. Your advice is most welcome.

David

dbj216 · 10-25-2019, 07:27 PM

I always wonder why we call the frame outside body supports "outriggers". Without them, the body would fall down around the frame. So they are body supports seems to me. But when in Rome...

We removed the body wraps all around the trailer to expose the rusty outriggers. We have identified 8 of them that need replaced. We don't want our Sovereign's body to ride low like a teenagers pants.

I cut 4 of the 8 rusty riggers off today. I don't understand why the outriggers got so rusty. Maybe the fiberglass insulation around them holds lots of moisture? By the way, the 5th outrigger in the photo was a freebee. It was just hanging in the body wrap, not attached to anything. Airstream error?

We'll get replacements on order. We'll contract a mobile welder to come to my place and make all the frame repairs we will need. We will get this Sovereign's rear end together again, not separated and saggy like it is now, again like a teenager's pants.

This Sovereign has better wheel well construction than my 75 Overlander. They actually fit the upside down "F" channel around the square subfloor cutout to help insulate it from road splash. And there is a piece of aluminum both forward and aft in the wheel well that is flashing to help seal the joint of outrigger to subfloor.

And I noticed the tight rivet spacing pattern of body to upside down "F" channel all round the trailer. This is riveted really tight, and it was well sealed with Vulkem by the Airstream assemblers.

David

dbj216 · 10-26-2019, 07:05 PM

I see my usual sources are "out of stock" on outriggers.

Can you folks recommend an outrigger source for me? Appreciate it.

David

Aerowood · 10-26-2019, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbj216

I see my usual sources are "out of stock" on outriggers.

Can you folks recommend an outrigger source for me? Appreciate it.

David

I have three that I don’t need. PM me for details

Eric 26 Argo · 10-27-2019, 04:35 PM

David did you try Out of Doors Mart?

dbj216 · 10-27-2019, 07:11 PM

Hi Eric: Yes I did, online. The web page show outriggers out of stock. Same with Inland RV. There is a vendor called SkyHi RV that carries them, but I've never used them and know nothing about them. Their price is quite a bit higher also. I suspect our local Airstream dealer would be the highest price of all.

David

dbj216 · 10-27-2019, 07:28 PM

I finished cutting off the rusty riggers. I moved to the rear of the trailer where there is serious trouble.

The 1/2" plywood rotted out between the C channel and the rear cross member. The tie down bolts were rusty loose. There are a lot of subfloor penetrations back there like my 75. Dump valves, shower P trap, low point drains, shore power cord, copper ground wire come to mind. We will configure the plumbing to avoid as may as possible.

The 76 rear cross member is completely different from my 75. I think I like it better. I'll post a photo when I get it cut out of there.

David

wcronin4 · 10-28-2019, 06:44 AM

David.
I’ve ordered things from SkyHiRV with success. Higher prices but they had something I needed when others were out of stock.

Bill

Luckylady · 10-28-2019, 04:53 PM

Good luck!! Can’t wait to see pics as you go through this renovation.

dbj216 · 10-28-2019, 07:53 PM

I continue to make this old Sovereign lighter in weight. I "rough cut" the rear crossmember down. I had to do this to gain access to the rusty frame to c channel bolts. My cutoff wheel wouldn't fit in there.

The rear cross member is a big piece with a lip on top that the infamous aluminum strip and subfloor rests on. The body hold down plate and C channel rests on top of the subfloor. I have more work to do to get the body hold down plate out of there.

I was pleased to see the infamous aluminum strip was corroded all to heck. An eye for an eye. Justice.

The 76 long trailer models have quite a bit larger waste water tanks. The tank compartment is larger. There is a 7 1/2 longitudinal steel floor support from the crossmember under the wardrobe to the rear crossmember, welded both ends. These steel components make up the tank compartment walls. Frame rails, rear crossmember, and center floor support. It is a better design than my 75.

We will have to figure out how to best re-fabricate all this to make a solid rear body attachment.

David

Alumaholic · 10-29-2019, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbj216

... We will have to figure out how to best re-fabricate all this to make a solid rear body attachment.
David

Nothing a little POR won't "fix"

Cvliv · 10-29-2019, 12:24 PM

Absolutely! A shrine made of cookies! David is my hero. I am really enjoying doing this project together. I am learning so much. I could not begin to do this without him.

Alumaholic · 10-29-2019, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cvliv

Absolutely! A shrine made of cookies! David is my hero. I am really enjoying doing this project together. I am learning so much. I could not begin to do this without him.

I may have to make another pilgrimage to Conifer to visit that shrine.

dbj216 · 10-29-2019, 06:06 PM

Cort and Alumaholic:

You know there are so many Forums members who have removed the body, built new frames, do all their own cabinet work, and end up with a beautiful trailer. I enjoy reading their project threads. Me, I'm just an old retired guy trying to stay busy.

I got the rear end of the frame all cut apart. Now what?

The rear body mounting plate was rust beyond repair. Like my 75 Overlander, the rear C channel was also fractured at the frame rails. Here is a photo of the "stack of parts" at the rear of the trailer. On the bottom is the big crossmember, then the aluminum strip, then the 1/2" plywood, on top of the wood is the body mounting plate, and finally the C channel. We will fabricate new pieces and weld them to the frame rails and other frame parts.

The body mounting plate measured about 38" long. The distances between the rear end cap "formers" that the rear cargo door and large rear window is 48". The body mounting plate had about 10 rivets in it holding the body exterior skin to the body plate. Not enough in my view. We plan on making this part longer and getting the body plate under those "formers" to better support the rear body.

We have quite a bit of rear end floor rot to repair too.

David

AlmnmSloop · 10-30-2019, 07:03 AM

Hello,

I'm relatively new to the Forum. Love what you're doing with the 76 restore and will definitely keep track (music to my ears - resonates in my soul!) We recently purchased a 1976 Excella 500 and, like you, wanted a winter project to bless our daughter when she graduates from college this spring. I'm in the middle of ripping everything out and trying to decide how far I'm willing to go. We own/restored a 1966 Land Yacht a few years ago and we love these things....Airstreams are very addictive! We take it everywhere (I'm blessed with a wife that loves to camp). keep the posts coming!

blessings,
Rick

dbj216 · 10-30-2019, 07:37 PM

Welcome Rick: Glad you found our thread and glad to hear you are on a similar project this winter. Sounds like you have experience renovating these vintage Airstreams.

Maybe your Excella 500 (top of the line trailer in 76) has many of the same problems the Sovereign has. I think your trailer has better cabinetry and more amenities. Maybe you have a photo or two of the thing, especially the interior. I'd be interested to see the difference.

David

dbj216 · 10-31-2019, 06:17 PM

Does anyone know why Airstream designed a left side outrigger and a right side outrigger. The two parts are mirror images of each other. I understand the flange at the top of the outrigger would always face forward. I understand why you need it at the wheel well front and back. But I don't understand why you need a left and a right down the sides of the trailer.

David