New Trimetric RV Battery monitor

[68 Overlander]

We have teamed with Bogart Engineering to provide a better RV battery monitor. Trimetric RV
Smaller design with the same great features as the original Trimetric but now includes second battery bank voltage monitor, built-in lightning protection and 500 Amp shunt. Dimensions: 4-1/4" X 3"

[2airishuman]

looks interesting randy...

can u explain how/if it might be a bonus using this monitor with a group of solar panels and battery bank?

also what's the current best suggestion on chargers to go with this?

~330 w solar and 4x12v grp27 lifeline agms...

thanks in advance

2air'

[bryanl]

I'd like to see more SmartGauge battery monitor type smarts in something like this so that it would figure the setpoints, monitor battery degradation over time, and provide input about potential charging, equalization or desulfation, or storage maintenance problems. A USB port with an example FOSS would be nice, too ...

for the rabits on solar - If mostly off grid I'd suggest one of those desulfation doobobs like the Battery Minder - I think that one will run off battery if no AC is supplied (looks like Randy has a good selection and price on these). If on grid then I'd suggest the WFCO or PD+CW that has the periodic shake up charge. There has been some discussion about this psuedo equalize charge and AGM batteries but even AGM's need a top charge to inhibit sulfation.

How come I can't find a solar charger that does maintenance mode? The best I have seen is a manual 'equalize charge' switch. Probably as rare as a true load sharing RV inverter - closest I have seen there is at Victron (see Honda white paper ) for an interesting application. One of these days, I guess.

[Wayne&Sam]

Originally Posted by Leipper

Probably as rare as a true load sharing RV inverter - closest I have seen there is at Victron (see Honda white paper ) for an interesting application. One of these days, I guess.

Very interesting. Too bad they are for the European market and run on 230v.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

looks interesting randy...

can u explain how/if it might be a bonus using this monitor with a group of solar panels and battery bank?

also what's the current best suggestion on chargers to go with this?

~330 w solar and 4x12v grp27 lifeline agms...

thanks in advance

2air'

The whole concept of most battery monitors come from solar applications. They have migrated deep into the RV and Marine industry because of the popularity of off grid living. In a nutshell, I don't see how one would want solar without a way to monitor what its doing. Granted some solar controllers have their own monitoring equipment but many do not. Regardless, the info they provide is valuable for all deep cycle battery applications.
The charger is really irrelevant as it doesn't know or care what the source is but with AGMs like you have, the Xantrex XADC is by far the most popular. The charging algorithm is near perfect.
Actually, that converter has passed the WFCO and Inteli-power for even flooded batteries but all do a good job. People like the power factor correction and efficiency of the Xantrex and its hard to blame them.

[bryanl]

Xantrex XADC ... that converter has passed the WFCO and Inteli-power for even flooded batteries but all do a good job.

Does the XADC provide a storage mode like the others? From what I can tell, it doesn't.

Getting a battery charged and keeping it healthy when not in use are two entirely different functions and confusing the two is no a good plan for long battery health.

If you are indeed full time and working the battery all the time it doesn't matter (much) but if you tend to store the rig for more than a month then a device that will maintain top charge and provide some desulfation technique can be worthwhile.

[68 Overlander]

Hi Bryan,
Yes it does float at 13.5 volts. Its even adjustable if your savvy enough to adjust the pots. The others are 13.2 which is still in the ball park. Better than no float like the Parallax that maintains 13.8 with no drop (or bulk for that matter unless you get the T option and that is a 13 hour battery boiler at 14.2 volts) For the life of me don't understand their thinking but they sell a lot of converters to OEM so what do I know. The exception is the Parallax Paramode with Temperature compensation. That does a beautiful job in all seasons and is only available aftermarket. OEMs wont buy it because most new RVers don't care or understand about it and it costs a little more. My opinion of course.
Something I try and explain to people is the float voltage varies (or should) with battery type, manufacture and especially temperature.
For instance, 13.2 is common. That is fine in the summer months however that is a undercharged battery when the temperature is less than about 40 degrees. I'm not looking at my chart but its somewhere around there. Well, the question always comes up about when do we store our RVs (batteries). For me and most people its in the winter and that is why Xantrex chose 13.5 to keep fully charged. If you store batteries in the summer, 13.2 would probably be better but thats when most are using their RVs and like you said its moot.
Good question and there is no perfect solution for every situation.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

...with AGMs like you have, the Xantrex XADC is by far the most popular. The charging algorithm is near perfect...

ok, good info.

now what size? 60 or 80?

and regarding installation of the xantrex, in a typical 05 classic (30amp) what else do i need?

wiring size changes ? breakers ? fuse panel ? anything?

is this just the charger or is the converter part of the package?

i'm sure lots of us don't know the 2 items are separate but packed together, right?

will the trimetric monitor go into the current location, where the sun-explorer now rests?

same wiring? or will extra wires need to be run from under the sofa to the monitor in the galley?

once i get the add-on panels ordered this stuff will be next.

cheers
2air'

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

ok, good info.

now what size? 60 or 80?

and regarding installation of the xantrex, in a typical 05 classic (30amp) what else do i need?

wiring size changes ? breakers ? fuse panel ? anything?

is this just the charger or is the converter part of the package?

i'm sure lots of us don't know the 2 items are separate but packed together, right?

will the trimetric monitor go into the current location, where the sun-explorer now rests?

same wiring? or will extra wires need to be run from under the sofa to the monitor in the galley?

once i get the add-on panels ordered this stuff will be next.

cheers
2air'

With 4 group 27s, I'd be looking at the 80 however if you don't boondock, the 60 would do it fine too. If you go with the 80, you should upgrade the wiring to 4 AWG to the battery for best performance and of course safety.
I think you have a Parallax 7355 power center in a 05, correct me if I'm wrong and if that is the case, you should have 6 AWG and you are fine with the XADC 60.
Here is a link from a forum member that made the swap on a newer Airstream. I know there are others here that have too.
Parallax to Xantrex Upgrade

[bryanl]

Yes it does float at 13.5 volts

Float alone just doesn't cut it for battery storage if you want longest battery life. It doesn't mix the electrolyte and has a significant risk of either over or under charging the battery, or parts of it.

That is why I think the controllers that do a periodic bump to bulk charge voltage for a few minutes do so well in keeping batteries healthy. It's not enough to boil off electrolyte but it does work against electrolyte stratification and it does assure a full charge for the entire battery.

That gets into use patterns, battery exercise, and how someone on solar or using a genset can keep track of how close they are getting to a properly charged battery. That is where having a device such as at the top of this thread can be a lot of fun.

[68 Overlander]

I don't disagree except the periodic bump of the WFCO and PD is sort of a yawn at the issue of desulfation or equalization. It is what it is but a better alternative is like you mentioned or a desulfator. Stratification and sulfation are eliminated. I've recovered several batteries with them that were left for dead and run them on all of my Lifelines and flooded alike. They just work and you are right, the issue needs addressed if you get serious about battery maintenance.

[ostream]

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

now what size? 60 or 80?

The recommended maximum battery bank size for the XADC-60 is 220aH; XADC-80 is 400aH. (Xantrex Technology Inc. - Recreational Vehicles - Xantrex TRUECHARGE RV - Specifications)

Your configuration (4 Lifeline GPL-27T's) nets out to 400aH

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

and regarding installation of the xantrex, in a typical 05 classic (30amp) what else do i need?

wiring size changes ? breakers ? fuse panel ? anything?

Xantrex recommends upgrading the charger to battery cabling to 4 AWG for the XADC-80

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

is this just the charger or is the converter part of the package?

i'm sure lots of us don't know the 2 items are separate but packed together, right?

You can order and replace converter/charger or you can also replace the electrical panel in addition to the converter/charger.

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

will the trimetric monitor go into the current location, where the sun-explorer now rests?

same wiring? or will extra wires need to be run from under the sofa to the monitor in the galley?

You'll also need the cable from the meter to the included shunt - Meter to Shunt Cable

[4slice]

Randy,
I am planning my system at present: 4 x 6v(225 a/h) golf batteries in a custom alum box behind the lp tanks, new converter, monitor, and eventually solar panels.
1) What is the difference between the Xantrex XADC and the Truecharge 2, and what is your recommendation?
2) Does the XADC have a battery temperature option?
3) What is the optimal amperage converter to use for this battery arrangement?
4) I assume that the Trimetric monitor is only concerned with the batteries, and does not worry about whether the converter or solar panels are doing the charging?

I appreciate your advice,
Gary H.
"4slice" 77 31'

[68 Overlander]

Gary,
with 450 AH, I would consider an 80 amp unit since it sounds like you plan a lot of boondocking and want to maximize your charging capability however even a 60 amp unit would do a good job.
The XADC is a DC power supply/charger that is designed for continual use where the Truecharge 2 is a battery charger (although some use it as a converter/charger) with all the bells and whistles like temperature compensation, worldwide power input capability, selectable battery types and an equalization function. All neat stuff but a steeper price.
The charge profile in the XADC is great for both flooded and AGM and it’s a very capable charger but it does lack temp comp and the equalization function. (Don't confuse equalization with Iota and Progressive Dynamics desulfation mode as they are different)
The Trimetric does not care where the charge source comes from but it does have the capability to monitor all sources as long as they are installed on the correct side of the shunt.
Hope this helps.

[4slice]

Randy,

Aside from price, are there any downsides to using the Truecharge 2 as a converter?

And how important are the temp compensation and equalization functions in the long run--important enough to pay the extra?

Your advice is really helping in specifying my design!

Gary