Got 3-stage charging yet?

[JimmyJames]

Cool, thanks Randy. Happy Thanksgiving !

[wheel interested]

But I don't think you can charge an AGM too fast, the thing to watch for is not to charge too high. Damage would occur if repeatedly under or overcharged, but not the charging rate if kept within specs. That is one of the reasons we chose it. They are designed not to out gas under normal conditions like the flooded cells do.

"...most manufacturer's of "maintenance free" batteries are mechanically assembled with automated equipment and sealed at atmospheric pressure. They leak acid when inverted, dry out from gassing, and are susceptible to vibration and impact damage. In comparison to Gel-Cell batteries, "LIFELINE" batteries offer all of their advantages, nearly twice the expected life cycles, and are not affected by fast charging, the leading cause of Gel Cell failure."

"Fastest recharge. (no current limitations with voltage regulated recharging.)"
"Lowest discharge rates (Less that 3 percent per month unattended)"

"For flooded wet batteries, internal resistance can be as high as 26%, which is the charging current lost to gassing, or breaking up of water. Gel acid batteries are better at only approximately 16% internal resistance and require only roughly 116% of rated capacity to be fully charged. Lifeline Advanced AGM has the lowest internal resistance of any battery manufactured only 2 percent. This allows Lifelines to be charged much faster if needed and also to deliver higher power when required."

"Why Choose an AGM Marine Battery?
Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries include lead plates packed between silica-glass mats, which hold electrolytes in suspension. They have no input current limitations allowing them to recharge more quickly than Flooded batteries, which typically accept about 35% of their ampere-hour rating, and Gelcells, that accept about 50%. At higher current loads AGMs also maintain usable system voltages for other high current, short duration loads as opposed to their counterparts, which become more inefficient during high current loads. AGMs also boast a longer lifespan than their counterparts, a deep-cycle flooded battery allows for 350 cycles at a 50 percent discharge level and Gelcells allow for 750 cycles whereas an AGM offers up to 1000 cycles at a 50 percent discharge level."

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvcomps.php

Originally Posted by overlander63

Carol, the slower a battery is charged, the better it is for the battery. The faster it is charged, the more heat is generated, with more chance of it running low on fluid because it is outgassing.
I have found that the battery in our coach will fully charge overnight when the charger is set on the "low" or 10 amp setting, maybe charging your AGM's at a slower rate will halt the failures you have experienced.

[JimmyJames]

Wow ! I want Carol to escort me to the battery store when I buy my AGM's.

Thanks Carol that was impressive.

I will be looking into the glass mats.

[wrepete]

Randy, I'm really interested in this information and discussion! We have been experiencing problems similar to Carol's, with failing batteries. Over recent years we have ended up boondocking for longer and longer periods. The past three summers we've camped without hookups for 6-8 weeks at a time, and recharging with a Honda EU2000i. Our '96 Classic Excella has very simplistic monitering for the battery system [often almost depleted before I remember to crank up the generator] so after a year of use, the regular marine deep cycle batteries begin to lose their capacity to hold a full charge.

So, will two Lifeline 12v 27 AGMs, coupled to a WFCO 3 stage charger, be the best way to go? Which charger model should we have? Would a better monitering system be required? If I need to switch to a better system, I'd like to do it right if I can.

Thanks to all for the info, Bud

[68 Overlander]

Bud,
That setup you described would be ideal in my opinion. For a pair of group 27s, I would recommend a 55-65 amp converter/charger. AGMs have very low internal resistance and will allow more charging amps. If you go larger then what you currently have, you need to be sure the wire from the converter to the battery bank can handle the additional current. There are several charts out there based on amps and length of wire run but 6 ga is adequate in most situations.

[FrenchBern]

Thanks a bunch "68 Overlander" and "Wheels interested" for this valuable source of information. Now where is a good place to get AGM batteries?

[jetliner]

I just bought an 06' CCD International and I am very happy!
I was rather suprised though at the under powered converter/batt setup.
I think the problem is that most of us have what's called a "continous duty" need for what is really a "light duty" setup in most Airstreams.(actually in all motorhomes/trailers) In my towing rig I have what would be considered adequate in a "continuous duty" setup,(found in most yachts/cruisers for Living aboard a boat) 10-deep cycle 6v batteries,cross-tyed in series parallel, using 4OUGHT(0000) wire throughout. A 150 amp XANTREX 3-stage battery charger and converter (inside a Trace Engineering Pure sine wave, 2500 watt sw2512 inverter). And most importantly:a 200 amp, at idle, dual foot, custom, WRANGLER alternator, controlled by a Balmer 3 stage digital regulator. Not to mention an entire mobile Seimens Solar grid on the roof!
Even with aaaaalllll this, you still got to watch it. Power is not easy(or cheap)
When my 2yr warranty expires, I plan to go and upgrade the whole system.
My advice: look at the boat world, esp for full timers. Anything RV is gonna be light duty. Just my 2 cents --Good Luck To All!

[TomW]

...with excellent support from Randy on Christmas day!

After reading the owner's manual, the WFCO unit appeared to be missing a part. After sending Randy a PM, I resigned myself to having to wait a few days for a response. Within an hour or so he replied that everything was okay, and to go ahead, and start using 3-stage charging now.

So far so good; But I'm gonna miss that hummmmmmmmmm.

Tom
p.s. POP QUIZ! Which of the units pictured below is my new Christmas present?

[till]

Ummmm I think it may be the one on the right.

More items for the list.........

[nvestysly]

My wife and I have a '92, 29' Excella with standard appliances (fridge, small TV, microwave, etc.) Our trailer is stored for long periods of time and I've resorted to disconnecting shore power so the batteries don't go dry. Problem is... then I have to remember to connect the shore power a day or so before we plan to leave on a trip. Plus, I hate the humming noise coming from the Magnetek 50 amp converter. I'm ready to swap out the Magnetek unit, replace it with something (WFCO or Inteli-Power I suppose), and purchase new batteries. I want this swap to be simple. I don't plan to do anything except pull out the old Magnetek and put in the new unit. No other upgrades, no added filtering. Which is better - WFCO or Inteli-Power (with Charge Wizard) for my application?

Thanks for your comments

[TomW]

It appears to me that the WFCO unit is the latest improvement in RV power management. Additionally, Randy appears to be a good guy, and would not recommend a unit he did not feel was a better choice in carefree RVing.

The Charge Wizard requires pushing a button to initiate it's wizardry. The WFCO unit does not, and accomplishes the same same goal without operator intervention.

I personally do not see a functional benefit gained by the choice of the Intellipower (with Charge Wizard) over the WFCO unit. And, before someone flames me (since I have already posted glowingly about my Christmas present (which came from people who do not know Randy)), I have no affiliation with Randy's operation nor do I receive a "cut" for any business I send his way.

With that said, my new WFCO unit is plugged in as we speak, and my DVM is being trotted out there every couple of days to check on things. This weekend I plan to inspect the battery's water level.

I expect to find nothing wrong. But if I do, I will PM Randy, and if I do not like his answer, this thread will get a new post.

Don't hold your breath though - The WFCO unit appears to be doing exactly what was advertised.

Tom

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by TomW

. . . The Charge Wizard requires pushing a button to initiate it's wizardry. The WFCO unit does not, and accomplishes the same same goal without operator intervention.
Tom

The Intellipower Charge Wizard doesn't require pushing a button, it starts and runs in automatic mode. The button can be used to manually control the charge mode if desired.

The advantage I find in the Intellipower Charge Wizard is that it has an indicator light and can be manually switched between modes. Also the Charge Wizard can be mounted in a visible, eye level location outside of the battery storage compartment.

[uwe]

My Intelli-Power with charge wizard stays quiet after it stops charging.
I went to work inside the trailer today, and had 100W in lights, plus 2 fantastic fans on medium speed. After about 2 hours, I was wondering why I had not heard the fan come on, like it usually does after a short while.
I grabbed the charge wizard, which was dark, and pushed the button. A green light came on, I heard a click, and I cold see the lights get brighter, and the fans ran faster.
So, are you supposed to have to push the button or not? Randy?
My trailer has been plugged in for a few weeks now, and the system has 2 Interstate standard deep cycle batteries, both new and both the same.

[wrepete]

After some research on my own [which revealed my lack of real expertise], then some reflection on my boondocking experience over several years [and the consumption of several batteries], I chose to go with the WFCO charger to go with the two AGM's. . . and finally added the Tri-Metric battery monitor. Now I will have a constant readout of useful information on the status of my 12v system, telling me the prime time to recharge with the generator, and can see when the batteries are at full charge and can shut the generator off. . . . . and protect the life of the batteries and the generator. Thanks to Randy's good ear and expression of possibilities, I expect to be an even happier AS camper.

[68 Overlander]

Tom, Bud, Don and you all make valid points but let me stay humble and remind you that I only recommend what I feel personally and do not have OEM stats to back my feelings... I go with my testing results and I have spent countless hours trying to decide. I do have experience with all units we carry and stand behind them 100 percent, yes even Parallax but they don't offer a float mode so that's a downer to many people. I've tested them all and conclude they all work pretty much as advertised but I've been let down by every manufacture and had to "eat" converters from every brand. I do feel WFCO has an edge lately but that's strictly based on the number of calls we receive from customers. Out of the thousands of units we've shipped, less then 1/2 of of one percent has came back under warranty. Of those that do, if it's been less then 30 days, we send a replacement immediately. That's just my policy and will continue that as long as I can. If it's longer then 30 days, we still will help coordinate warranty if possible. You can't go wrong with WFCO or Inteli-Power but if you still have the old "univolt" you are slowly shortening the life of your battery bank...again that is my opinion and experience only.
Randy

[GoldFever]

I've got two 75W solar panels on our 92 25 foot Excella Airstream connected to a low-end solar commander unit. The converter/charger is the Magnetek 900 series. We also have a Honda generator, EU3000, which gets used in the summer for air conditioning.
Mostly, we boondock and the solar panels give us plenty of energy.
At home I have been plugging into house power but have noticed that one of my Trojan group 27 deep cycle batteries (about 4 years old) loses fluid faster than the other and has been leaking around terminals, etc.
Can I use this WFCO unit with solar panels and how would I connect both a solar commander unit and a battery minder unit into a system?
I am also planning to change to two deep cycle 6 volt golf cart type batteries soon.
Any thoughts on this would be helpful. Thanks

[SafeHarbor]

Hi, Gary,

How about snapping some detail shots of your solar panels and upping them to your gallery? I'd like to see how/where they were installed.

Thanks,

Lamar

[TomW]

I've got ... [a bunch of cool stuff & questions.]..Any thoughts on this would be helpful. Thanks

I personally have been impressed with Randy's (the member who started this thread) knowledge. While public discussion is great, you may want to consider dropping him a personal message for a take on your particular situation.

He does stuff like that for a living.

Tom

[68 Overlander]

Gary,
I think you have a problem with one of your batteries and no converter/charger will fix that if in fact one is losing water faster and leaking.
New 3-stage switch converters can extend the life dramatically, but can’t repair bad cells or whatever caused the leak…most likely over charging from the 900 series Magnetek but obviously I can’t confirm that. I do feel that a constant 13.8 volts from the Magnetek is too high, especially in the summer months and will eventually boil/gas the water from the battery if you don’t pay close attention to it.
As for connecting solar, BatteryMINDer, etc… the battery bank doesn’t care where the voltage or amperage comes from and it doesn’t matter how you connect it, as long as it’s regulated and you know what is charging your new batteries, and at what rate. Yes the WFCO is compatible, as are others but more what is more important is to control the voltage and let the internal resistance of the battery bank take care of the amperage.
Sorry for the big font, I had word opened and typed there and pasted.
Randy

[wrepete]

Thank you Randy for all your help and good advice. The weather warmed up into the high 30's so I exchanged my old batteries for the new Lifeline AGM's, took out my old charger and replaced it with a 55 amp WFCO charger/inverter, and got the TriMetric 2020 Monitor installed today. Everything appears to be working as it should, and now I need to get better acquainted with the TriMetric programming so I can get all the info from the Monitor that I can use. I really appreciate all the expertise you provide, and you are a good man to do business with. This is a great setup!