Mazda Towing Vehicle on the Edge for a 19 Bambi?

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by lhermen

HI folks, well here is a detailed answer from Phil (Andy's colleague) from the Can-Am RV Centre in Ontario....

For what its worth Phil was one of the pro's there that was involved in our current set up. I had a chance to observe and talk with him during the receiver platform build up and installation.

Watching and listening to these guys really is a wake up call to just how much specialized knowledge there is re this subject.

Thinking I learned more about professional set ups and towing in the few hours I spent there than I had towing a trailer for many years.

IMHO the design and HD construction of their receiver/platform hardware puts a stock GM factory receiver at the level of a mechano set.

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

Thinking I learned more about professional set ups and towing in the few hours I spent there than I had towing a trailer for many years.

I'm sure they have accumulated a lot of knowledge of what works and what doesn't based on all the rigs they have set up for customers over the years. Far more than any of us could have from privately towing our own rigs. I would certainly be inclined to trust them. Though many people on this forum seem to be skeptical of their abilities to set up a safe towing rig, it seems like the actual CanAm customers are pretty happy with their results.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

IMHO the design and HD construction of their receiver/platform hardware puts a stock GM factory receiver at the level of a mechano set.

No disagreement there, though it doesn't really do their design justice as the GM OEM receiver is (or was--not sure on the new models) a certified POS.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

. I've seen the cars and mini-vans with the hitch that has to go around the exhaust

Yup, I have seen them too. They don't impress me much either.

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

Yup, I have seen them too. They don't impress me much either.

Seems like it would make a lot more sense to re-route the lightweight, non-critical component...

[subfan1]

We thought about down sizing our Tahoe awhile back but I started thinking when I am towing going east on the I 10 freeway towards Palm Springs and there is almost always a tail wind and 18 wheelers passing us, I would not want something light as a tow vehicle! I thought about a GMC Acadia but when I read about the hitch needed to be modified and re-enforcing areas of the Acadia that was recommended to be re-enforced I said nope I like my Tahoe.
As was mentioned before to each their own.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

Seems like it would make a lot more sense to re-route the lightweight, non-critical component...

When we went to Can Am to get our hardware designed and installed the first thing I asked Andy was how do you build a receiver assembly with the large muffler/tailpipes in the way. He just smiled and said there were many options without disturbing the original equipment.

In our case they just avoided the obstacle ( muffler/tailpipes) and designed the assemble in the available free space. Works great.

We just assume the custom receiver looks like and are installed like a conventional one but it is not always the case...

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, this is all great and dandy. Andy seems to be a very talented person, but neither he or you can change the factory rating on a vehicle. Mazda says 3,500 lbs, and that is what it is, no matter how you modify it. You can tow anything you want, with any vehicle you want, but when you're involved in a fatal accident, the tab is on you. If you live to tell about it, everything you own and then some will be gone instantly. I'm not a gambler or big risk taker, are you? Just because I CAN pull a 747 with my Lincoln, doesn't mean that I should.

YOU CAN, BUT YOU MAY NOT!

[flmgrip]

U know, all you guys pushing it to the limit... Yes it all works great 99% of the time... But the 1% matters if you care about others and your family...

I drive a rig what many consider overkill, a 25ft ccd towed by a 2500 silverado... Let me tell you not once did I think 'wow my rig is too big', not when I had 50miles/hr wind when a big rig past me on a bridge, not when I had to stop on a dime when a guy cut in front of me, not when I drove some mountain road...

U go ahead and pull whatever airstream with your mini... Most likley you'll be fine, but the one time it will make a difference - it will be too late.

That simple

the added benefit of my 'oversized' TV is that I can take my family, toys, 80gal of diesel and full tanks and not think about total payload...

But yo each their own, I just hope you don't kill anyone in the process...

[sempi2]

Originally Posted by flmgrip

U know, all you guys pushing it to the limit... Yes it all works great 99% of the time... But the 1% matters if you care about others and your family...

I drive a rig what many consider overkill, a 25ft ccd towed by a 2500 silverado... Let me tell you not once did I think 'wow my rig is too big', not when I had 50miles/hr wind when a big rig past me on a bridge, not when I had to stop on a dime when a guy cut in front of me, not when I drove some mountain road...

U go ahead and pull whatever airstream with your mini... Most likley you'll be fine, but the one time it will make a difference - it will be too late.

That simple

the added benefit of my 'oversized' TV is that I can take my family, toys, 80gal of diesel and full tanks and not think about total payload...

But yo each their own, I just hope you don't kill anyone in the process...

Amen, we are also overkill. We tow our 22' Safari with a 2009 toyota tundra and a Hensley. We feel safe and if it is overkill so be it.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by lhermen

...My question is not can if the Mazda pull it, but how much out of the safety margin would I be?...

how MUCH out of the safety margin?

define safety.

define acceptable risk

define "OUT"...

the fact that you need to LEAVE THE COUNTRY in order to get the tweak done should answer ALL of these questions.

suggesting folks go to canada for vehicle mods to TOW is stupid.

it's beyond stupid.

it's the sort of totally dumnass idea that continues to get PLAY simply because of how STUPID it is...

folks WANT others to go get these tweaks.

it's like goading a total novice into trying something, JUST TO find out what happens.

(go ahead and LICK that frozen light pole, go ahead, nothing bad will happen...)

dedicated ? sure they are...

experienced? sure they are...

do their customers love the tweaks? you betcha!

but whozzz ASSets are on the line when bad stuff happens ? not theirs, thats 4 certain.

call your ins agent and see IF they'll sell ya towing/rv insurance OR renew the mazda plan...

then call ANY liability trial lawyer and ask for an option.

the question really becomes how MUCH of your family wealth/future do you wanna RISK for this.

and if you are dirt poor, GO FOR IT!
_________

in fact IF ya wanna try it, just BOLT on a receiver, don't DO any other mods...

the process of MODIFICATION actually SUPPORTS the notion that YOU KNOW BETTER than to do this...

so just bolt on a receiver and go for it, at least THEN it looks like you were CLUELESS, not conniving.
_________

this is just MORE of the same crap from this thread (see posts 22-40)

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...-up-62528.html
_________

and the risk isn't just what happens when towing...

it's what happens IF the mazda gets REAR ENDED or catches FIRE or has some other failure...

or is SOLD to some unsuspecting new buyer in a year or 2, withOUT disclosure of the unibody ALTERATIONS and heat/exhaust issues...

((the Y/mufflers/exhaust is VERY tight to the rear end, i've been UNDER this vehicle))

don't forget the wear/tear/maintenance issues and the SPEED restriction (canam wants folks to tow at 55 mph)

"stability of the platform"??? get REAL will ya.

it's a HIGH CENTER minivan/suv combo thing.

is it MORE stable than suvs from 15 years ago? sure...

but by TODAY's standards it's still top heavy, tippy and so on.
____________

it's disgusting to see a total novice MISlead by lower48 folks who will NEVER own or tow with one of these things...

and the canadian stuff, continues to be dangerous, no MATTER HOW DEDICATED they are to the process...

and ESPECIALLY when they cross the border coming south, with ANY of these perverted rigs...
__________

i saw a 27-28 footer being towed by a hyundai santa fe...

actually the rig was PARKED in a florida state park and as i walked by, there was NO QUESTION about the tags...

ontario canada.

this suv has a <2000 lb tow rating and the 28 footer was 6000-7000 lbs.

and the owner was MORE than happy to explain WHO set him up...

"i gotta get the gauges and idiot lights checked when we get home" he said...

" the temps are a bit high, but i'm sure it's just a mistaken reading" he continued.

i asked the park ranger IF he saw them and he said...

"we ALMOST didn't let them IN THE PARK with that screwy and dangerous combo"...

"we get a LOT of those nutty mapleleaf combos LIMPING into the park every winter..."
________

i met another eastern canadian towing an older 34 with a new caddy cts/sts? a few years ago in salem oregon.

he had CROSSED continent with his rig.

"how long did it take?" i asked...

"about 40 DAYS" was his reply.

"we like towing with caddies, and going 45-50 mph and only towing 3 hours/day suits us JUST FINE"...
____________

so again to ANSWER the op PRIMARY question...

Originally Posted by lhermen

...My question is not can if the Mazda pull it, but how much out of the safety margin would I be?...

about as FAR OUT as ANY brainless/halfwitted/cost INeffective HACKjob might be...

(and don't forget yer passport)





cheers
2air'

[Road Ruler]

Gotta luv it. More, typical, predictable, drama queen, rantings,

These types of discussions have occured time and time again. Massive amounts of information already documented, talked about, debated, and explained. The pros and cons of all aspects concerned can be found using the search button. No need to waste time repeating/duplicating the info.

[mutcth]

Something bothers me here:

- Consensus here is that it's totally fine if you need to road trip to find the trailer of your dreams.
- It's OK if you spend $2000+ on a hitch system.
- It's fine to spend hours reading the forums to research how to properly and safely set up your trailer, tow vehicle, and hitch system.

But if you suggest that someone drives to one of the most experienced and knowledgable shops in North America to get the crucial connection between your tow vehicle and trailer properly set-up and optimized, that idea is dismissed as being one of the top five most stupid ideas written on this forum.

It's fine to suggest that if someone can afford an Airstream, they can afford a "proper" tow vehicle - but suggest that they spend a few hundred dollars at CanAm and that idea is "crap."

Honestly, even if I was towing with a vehicle that was well within its limits, I would make the trip. Why not take advantage of such a wealth of experience - even for "proper" tow vehicles - especially for a tow vehicle and trailer combo that someone would own for years.

No doubt, there are lots of people that live too far for this to be practical. But the OP in this thread lived in Michigan. It says a lot to me that Rich Luhr went to CanAm to get his GL Bluetec (a vehicle that is towing within its towing capacity) set-up tweaked.

Tom

[C Johnson]

Originally Posted by lhermen

Considering a purchase of an 04 Bambi 19 with a weight of 3680, to be pulled by my Mazda cx-9 awd v-6 with an upgraded Curt hitch that claims a 4000 capability. Vehicle weighs 4550 and has a large 3.7L DOHC 24 valve engine with 273 hp. My question is not can if the Mazda pull it, but how much out of the safety margin would I be? Tough one.

thanks for your thoughts

Larry in Southwest Michigan

Well you are already 180 lbs south of the towing cap. and that's before you put any gear/people/water/fuel etc in it. ( I assumed the 3680 is dry weight )

The total payload cap. is 1429 and your tongue weight comes right off the top of that.

I didn't see a GCWR listed. The math tells me it 9525 #
GVWR 6025 + Towing cap. 3500

Does your CX 9 have the factory tow package ? Just curious. If it doesn't that drops the towing cap. to 2k. From what I've read it seems most folks are towing popup trailers with their CX 9 's

One other thing I noticed in most of these "should I tow with this" threads is no one mentions wind resistance. The farther away the trailer is from the back of the vehicle the more wind-age you have. I say this because different receivers/hitches will be either longer or shorter. Ideally you would want the trailer as close to the back of the car as possible.

My Aerostar van owners manual states that the more wind-age you have the towing cap. goes down. It actually has two towing caps. listed according to the amount of square footage of the front of the trailer that is exposed to the wind. Yes, even Airstreams have wind resistance.

I can tow my Caravel with my Aerostar. Small v-6, far smaller than the CX. It gives me plenty of time to see the sights. With no gear/water and just me in the car, it does great. It doesn't do as well as I thought it would with all my stuff in it. Oh well, I still have nice F250 to get me there.





Get a vintage Airstream :-) You could tow my Caravel all day long with a CX-9. No problem.

One last note, the more you ask of any tow vehicle is directly proportionate to its lifespan and maybe yours if you overdo it too much.

One thing is for sure, these posts always make for a lively debate and a multitude of opinions.

Cheers, CJ

[Stefrobrts]

Nice post, Chris. I didn't know you towed with anything other than that big black beast of yours

The Edge has a good brochure of towing information.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/p...vEDGEsep09.pdf

Also the point about the tow package is a good one. On the Edge at least it includes an upgraded radiator and cooling fans. Looking at the Curt hitch, I'd say I'd go with that even if I wasn't trying to extend it's towing capacity, that looks like a beefy hitch. But then I would only need it to pull around #2800 fully loaded. Our vintage trailers do offer more Tow vehicle options than the new Bambi's because of their light weight.

[C Johnson]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

Nice post, Chris. I didn't know you towed with anything other than that big black beast of yours

The Edge has a good brochure of towing information.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/p...vEDGEsep09.pdf

Also the point about the tow package is a good one. On the Edge at least it includes an upgraded radiator and cooling fans. Looking at the Curt hitch, I'd say I'd go with that even if I wasn't trying to extend it's towing capacity, that looks like a beefy hitch. But then I would only need it to pull around #2800 fully loaded. Our vintage trailers do offer more Tow vehicle options than the new Bambi's because of their light weight.

Yea, My F 250 is over kill for the Caravel unless I am doing something cross country. My boat however pushes it to the top end of its GCWR.

On the CX tow package they program the computer different. I believe it changes the shift points on the transmission. Isn't the Edge similar in design to the CX ?

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by C Johnson

On the CX tow package they program the computer different. I believe it changes the shift points on the transmission. Isn't the Edge similar in design to the CX ?

I think they're pretty much the same. Ford/Mazda have had a lot of shared vehicles for years now.

[Stefrobrts]

Ok, I'm less sure about the Mazda CX-9/Ford Edge relationship. I read the CX-9 is 14 inches longer to make room for the third row seats, but looking up wheelbase says 113 for the CX-9, 111 for the Edge - pretty close. Shared engine, different transmissions, stuff like that. They do look similar on the outside. Same 3500# limit which would be fine for a small vintage AS. Edge is built in the US, CX-9 is built in Japan. So now I'm not sure how closely related they are.