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Old 02-26-2004, 07:39 PM   #1
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11k AC/Bambi/Honda/???

Greetings.

While investigating the use of the Honda 2000 generator, I was trying to figure out if it is REALLY necessary to have two of these running paralel, if you are careful to run only the AC and put the fridg on LP. I would like to have just one generater. The Yamaha 3000 weighs in at 150#. Ouch.

I came accross a poster wo installed something that replaced a capacitor in the Duo-Therm so that the starting of the compressor wouldn't tax the Honda so much. It was like an electrical upgrade that cost 40 bucks.

Of coarse I now can not find that post but was curious if anyone else has done this modification, and would it be something that I could have AS do as they are building my TT.

Can anyone elaborate on this?

Jonathan
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Old 02-26-2004, 07:50 PM   #2
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Here ya go ...

Dometic Quick Start Kit
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:13 PM   #3
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Jon,

Check out
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/gen/ef2800i.html

at 64 lbs

RATED AC OUTPUT 2500 watts w/a max of 2800 watts

This may handle your AC, as the Dou-Therm specs for the 11K BTU needs a min 2.5KW.
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Old 02-26-2004, 09:22 PM   #4
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Porky and John.

Thanks so much for your replies.

Porky: If you installed the Duotherm quick-start, are you able to use the one honda 2000 generater to run the AC ? I wonder why Duo therm doesn't just install their AC units with the quick start thingie, considering that it is an inexpensive component.

I'm going to give AS and the Duo Therm folks a call tommorow and find out the poop.

John: have you used the yamaha. Man, 64# is a lot easier on the back than its' bigger brother the 3000!

Jonathan
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Old 02-26-2004, 09:48 PM   #5
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If you find out what that costs, let me know....I might consider adding it to my A/C unit.

Looks like a big capacitor to me, but heck what do I know!

Eric
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Old 02-26-2004, 09:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by crazylev
Porky: If you installed the Duotherm quick-start, are you able to use the one honda 2000 generater to run the AC ? I wonder why Duo therm doesn't just install their AC units with the quick start thingie, considering that it is an inexpensive component.
Jonathan ...

Because our AS is new ... I have not installed the kit yet ... not sure if we'll be getting a generator ... but if we do .. we'll probably need two of the Hondas in order to run our 15K AC.

Also, I'm going to look at my AC a little closer now .. and see if perhaps the kit is already there. I should be so lucky.
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Old 02-27-2004, 06:44 AM   #7
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Jonathan,

No I haven't used the EF2800I, but I do know a couple who fulltime and they get along fine with the EF2800I, that's why I'm planning on getting one.


Porky: sounds like you have only one 15K BTU AC unit in your A/S, not two. Is this correct or do you have two 15K BTU units??
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Old 02-27-2004, 12:06 PM   #8
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Greetings.

I just spoke with support at the Dometic Co:

The 11000 btu unit needs a 2500WT generater to power-up the compressor properly. Once the compressor is on, the draw is only about 15WT.
I was told that Dometic does not make/sell the Quick-Start add-on unit any longer.

The yamaha Ef 2800 generator will handle this start-up, providing you are carefull with the other appliances. Personally, if I wanted to run the AC, I would switch the fridge over to LP.

Also there is a YG 2800 gen. that is basically identical to the EF, but has an additional bar accross the front control panel for a little more strenghtht, as well as Ground fault for the two household type outlets. The YG is 2 pnds heavier than the EF. Both are rated at around 60 DCB, not quite as quite as the Honda enclosed 2000i.

I was also told that when you hook up two Honda 2000 parrelel, you only get about a third of the power from the second generator, so the power output is not exactly double with two of these.

I'm thinking that for my pruposes, I would roather use the one Yamaha, and be ok with the occassional use of AC, than to have to schlep around two Hondas.

Jonathan
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Old 02-27-2004, 01:09 PM   #9
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You have been given common misinformation about paralleling two EU2000s. If you use the EU1000 parallel cable, you have to take the output of the two EU2000s from one of the 120VAC outlets, which have a 20A (2400W) circuit breaker. Obviously, that's all you can get. This misinformation is spread not only by Yamaha dealers, but by Honda dealers who don't know any better.

If you use one of the paralleling cables that plug into the banana plug connectors, you WILL get all 4,000W from them. Here's my paralleling setup. I, and several others on RV.net, have loaded this setup to near 4,000W and that's what we got.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that a generator driven by a naturally-aspirated (i.e. not turbocharged) gas engine, especially a carbureted one that can't adjust its fuel/air mixture for the thinner air at higher altitude, loses 5-7% of its output per 1000' above sea level. Even unplugging the converter and running the frig on gas may not be enough at altitude, when you're marginal at sea level. With no option to parallel, the solution is replacement.

The EF2800 is a good unit if it can do the job for you. Yamaha makes good stuff too. It has 3 gallons of gas capacity vs the two of two EU2000s. However, keep in mind that it weighs 83 lbs gassed, compared to 55 lbs for each EU2000, when you think of lifting it onto the tall tailgate of a 4WD truck like mine, or worse yet, Porky's. Also note that you have to carry it in front of you with two hands. I can carry the 110 lbs of two EU2000s much easier, one in each hand, for balance.

Finally, keep in mind that any engine or generator is going to last longer when run at less than maximum capacity that it will when run at maximum capacity all the time.
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Old 02-27-2004, 02:02 PM   #10
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I called Dometic today as well. They told me that the 15k units need a minimum of a 3.5k generator to operate the 15k Penguin correctly. As Moe said, at sea level two 2000s would work, however it would be questionable if even 2 2000s could keep the 15k units running well above sea level.

I would think that 2 3000s would do it.

I suppose that's the price you pay for getting a larger A/C unit.

Glad I have dual fantastic fans. I can get a 1000 to top off the battery if I ever need to...but I'm not about to lug around 2 3000s in paralell.

FYI.....
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Old 02-27-2004, 03:50 PM   #11
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Moe.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, somerthing didn't sound to correct with the info I got, which is why I come to this place for real information.

Right now I'm collecting ideas so I can find out what is physically, financially possible. I'm even wondering how often that my wife and I might be in a position that the AC is really needed, except when we are trying to sleep, which in this case maybe my two Fantastic fans would cool down the cabin enough for a decent nights slumber.

I also will be using the AS as a sort of location studio vehicle for my photography, meaning that I would need power to run my big-ass studio strobe(light) units when on location. I have to figure this one out still.

Jonathan
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Old 03-01-2004, 10:59 PM   #12
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Hi All !
I'm so excited...I just ordered the Int'l 19' Bambi !
Expecting delivery mid April.
I just wanted to say Thank you all for being here, I feel like a 'lurker' so I thouht I'd introduce myself.
I asked the salesman if I needed a generator, and he said that there should be enough power to use for 2 good days....
Well.....is this true??? I'm getting nervous thinking that I might have to heave these babies around, me being a woman, even tho I work out! Do they sit out in the open when hooked up?
The 'newest Newbie' on the block!
Debra
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:25 AM   #13
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I was out boondocking (without electricity, etc) using all the resources our Bambi had for over 5 days and still had ample power in the dual batteries to carry me for at least 5 more, maybe more. Also fresh water supply and holding tanks were totally a non issue for 5 days and 2 people.

Just lucky that the pooch liked to go outside!
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Old 03-02-2004, 11:11 AM   #14
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Babyblueyes (and crazylev, since this is your thread),
Your Bambi will probably come with two Interstate Battery SRM-24 Marine/RV batteries. These have 82 amp-hours each at a 5 amp discharge. You don't want to discharge them below 50% if you don't want to be replacing them more frequently, so instead of having 2 X 82AH, you have 82AH to play with, or 16.4 hours at a 5AH discharge rate. Battery capacity decreases in cold temperatures, and it decreases with higher discharge rates. When the voltage indicator on the Airstream monitor panel drops below 12 volts with the batteries being used (i.e. a fan running), you're at or below 50% charge.

Whether the 82AH 50% charge of the two batteries lasts more than a day, depends on your electrical use, and that depends, in part, on the weather.

The Fantastic Vent fan draws about 2 amps on Low, 2.5 on Medium, and 3.0 on high. You can do the multiplication from there. For example, if you run the fan on medium for 12 hours during the day, that's 12 hours X 2.5 amps = 30AH. If you add 12 hours on low at night, that's another 12 hourx X 2 amps = 24AH for a total of 54AH, leaving you 28AH for other things that day, before the batteries are down to 50% charge.

IIRC, the Bambi gas furnace fan draws 5 amps. If it runs an average of 2 minutes out of 4 for 12 hours at night (50% of the time), that's 12 hours X .5 X 5A = 30AH. If you add 12 hours of daytime use running an average of 1 minute out of 4 (25% of the time), that's 12 hours X .25 X 5A = 15AH for a total of 54AH. It might seem you should have 82AH - 54AH = 28AH for other things that day, but because it's cooler, the externally mounted batteries have less capacity. This is cool weather. The furnace can run much more than this (percentage of the time) in colder weather.

Each incandescent light bulb draws 1.4 amps, so one 2 bulb fixture draws 2.8 amps. Running only one 2-bulb lamp at a time for 5 hours, that's 5 hours X 2.8A = 14AH

Your water pump probably draws 6 amps at full flow, so running it for 2 minutes per night per person is 2/60 hours X 6A = .2AH with one person. Not much. In that 2 minutes, it can move as much as 5 gallons from the fresh water tank to the grey water tank. You can stretch that 2 minutes/5 gallons by using a lower flow. Water capacity used is much more important than the pump's electrical use.

There are things in your trailer than use little bits of electricity constantly, and these can add up. Any appliance with a circuit board draws a little constantly. That includes the refrigerator (even when run on gas), the water heater, the LP detector, the AM/FM radio (even when off). These can amount to several amp-hours.

And we haven't even talked about TV, DVD, satellite receiver, or radio usage yet. The TV antenna amplifier uses battery power so don't forget to turn it off when done.

Using 25-27AH per day, you should be able to go 3 days if little to no fan or furnace use is involved, and keep your batteries above 50% charge. If you don't mind replacing them 2 to 3 times more often, you can discharge deeper than that, but without an amp-hour meter, it's hard to tell how deeply you're discharging them. If you go to the point the 11 volt light goes out on the Airstream monitor panel, you're committing battery homicide. A battery is considered fully discharged at 10.5 volts.

Besides not being able to run your air-conditioner and hair-dryer, you will also not be able to run the microwave oven, without a generator. If you have the gas oven, the microwave isn't as important... but you can't bake bisquits or cornbread in a MW anyway, unless it's also a convection oven, which will also require a generator.

The nice thing about running a generator in the evenings is that the electricity for the light(s) (you can afford to run more than one at a time), water pump, TV, DVD, sat receiver, radio, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, vent fan or furnace, doesn't come out of the batteries. It comes out of the converter along with the electricity that's charging the batteries. Besides feeding the converter during this time, the generator can be used to power the microwave and hair-dryer, as well as chargers for the rechargable batteries in the notebook computer, printer (Canon i70), cell phone, PDA, and digital camera or camcorder, and all these items can then be operated off their own batteries, rather than the trailer battery, when the generator isn't running.

If you run for 4 hours per night, the trailer batteries only have to supply 20 hours of vent fan or furnace use (plus music, TV etc).

The generator is setup next to the trailer, which is plugged into it with a 15A male to 30A female adapater. You can secure the generator to the trailer with a Kryptonite cable threaded through the slots in the trailer wheels and the generator handle. This isn't foolproof (someone can cut the generator handle) but it will stop the snatch and run crowd.

Since you don't have a truck, you won't be able to safely carry the generator, and a can of gas for it, in the tow vehicle. You don't want either of those in a passenger compartment with you, expecially in an accident. These will have to be secured inside the trailer somehow. You could skip the gas can if you use a siphon hose with a bulb and use the gas from the SUV to fill the generator.

Honda has restricted shipments to on-line vendors, so you may have to wait for an EU2000 generator. Many of us here have had good purchases from Mayberrys in NJ, and many have been satisfied with Alamia in CO.

Hope this helps,
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