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07-17-2011, 09:15 PM
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#61
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauxter
Dark, do you see any issue with using the same dimensions as yours for the crossmenbers, but using 1/8 L instead of 3/16 L?
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Are you referring to 2"x 3" x 1/8" L ?
One of them per cross member or two?
Two would put you at a minimum 6" frame rail height...
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07-23-2011, 06:24 AM
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#63
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Outriggers
The choices are solid pre-formed outriggers from an AS friendly supplier @ $10.95 ea, "hollow" @ $19.95, or try to fabricate out of angle and 16 ga. steel???
computing.....
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07-23-2011, 04:55 PM
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#64
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Practice Welds
I need a lot of practice!!
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07-23-2011, 06:17 PM
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#65
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Im going to be supportive and say that is an excellent starting point for improvement...
was that stick or flux core mig? how thick is that metal? where did you have your welder settings?
Welding works better with
clean metal
little or no wind
a comfortable position
the correct settings on the welder
the correct wire / stick for the type of material
a respirator under your helmet
a good auto-darken helmet - so you can see your work prior to pulling the trigger
and a zen like state where you slowly move your arc side to side in a stitch pattern as you move down your work .... melting one side of the weld into the pool and then crossing over to the other side melting that side into the pool so you can see for sure that you are joining metal.
I ruin gloves - every welding job with a mig on anything of any thickness I end up scorching the leather gloves until they are shrunk and stiff from the heat... I like to use one hand as a rest for the other one so I get a nice steady pattern
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07-23-2011, 10:09 PM
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#66
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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That is my flux core. I don't have my big arc wired up yet. I tried .030 wire, and was really bad, then tried .035 at multiple power and wire speed settings. The picture, above, was as good as it got. I ground down to shiny, but low power would not penetrate, and high power splattered. I am hoping for much better results with the buzz box. I am less than thrilled with 115v flux core.
I am going to use 1/8" 6013 for the arc stick.
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07-23-2011, 10:18 PM
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#67
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Looks way underpowered and all of the weld is sitting on the surface. My 180c (.035) is 20A 240v and I would not weld anything over 3/16 with it. I would guess 1/16 would be the limit of a 120v mig
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08-01-2011, 07:42 PM
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#68
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Frame re-build
The plan is to build a new frame. I will use 5" X 3/16" (6.7#) channel for the main rails, and 1/8" X 1.5" X 1.5" angle for the cross-members . I would like to box it in at the front like it shows in the picture, but I thought that 1/8" plate, without holes would be sufficient. Do I need the holes? I don't think the weight would be much less, punching those holes out. Not sure how I would paint it inside, though.
For those who have followed this thread: FYI, my practice welds are much better with the 220 AC arc. It feels and performs like the real deal.
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08-21-2011, 06:43 AM
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#69
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Thinking ahead: Plumbing
While assembling the new frame, I thought that adding a gray tank support structure would be wise. I have pictures of the AS, as I disassembled, but cant find my waste line pics, so I referred back to the AS maintenance book. I noticed something strange. Looking at the attached diagram, it looks like the gray water does not go to the black tank, and instead runs directly out of the pipe. Am I correct?? I have never camped in a travel trailer, but I am thinking that if you are boondocking, you couldn't really use the water, without draining gray water to the parking lot.
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08-21-2011, 07:02 AM
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#70
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x
XXXX
, XXXX
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,601
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Mike you are correct. Your 73 never came with a grey tank. back then it was common place to just drain the grey water onto the ground. Adding a grey tank will require you to reconfigure your waste outlet lines so that the grey water goes into the new grey tank. Then you will have to add an outlet with a blade valve and connect it to the waste outlet line and sewer hose connection point.
If you don't want to add a grey tank you can purchase one of those blue boy portable waste tote tanks. It will connect via a sewer hose to your outlet and then the grey water will be captured in the blue boy.
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08-21-2011, 07:04 AM
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#71
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Always learning
1972 29' Ambassador
1962 19' Globetrotter
1951 21' Flying Cloud
Central
, Texas
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,881
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You are correct Baux. If you do not have a gray tank, the gray water goes out directly. I believe some Excellas and late year 73s had gray tanks. You can put the cap on the outlet and open the black tank valve and it will fill the black tank. I tried that ONCE! I don't recommend it, but it can be done in a pinch. That is why most people restoring/renovating a trailer without gray tanks chose to add them. It makes things much more convenient.
__________________
Lance
Work is never done, so take time to play!
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08-21-2011, 07:05 AM
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#72
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Site Team
2002 25' Safari
Dewey
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 15,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauxter
While assembling the new frame, I thought that adding a gray tank support structure would be wise. I have pictures of the AS, as I disassembled, but cant find my waste line pics, so I referred back to the AS maintenance book. I noticed something strange. Looking at the attached diagram, it looks like the gray water does not go to the black tank, and instead runs directly out of the pipe. Am I correct?? I have never camped in a travel trailer, but I am thinking that if you are boondocking, you couldn't really use the water, without draining gray water to the parking lot.
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That is correct. Without a grey tank the water runs out of the drain with nothing to stop it.
__________________
Richard
Wally Byam Airstream Club 7513
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09-06-2011, 08:25 AM
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#73
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Don't shoot the welder
I am using the old frame as a jig to weld the new one. I had some serious warping on the front-end where I welded the 3/16 plate to the c channel. Darkspeed gave me some great solutions, and the c channel seems to be relatively straight at this point. If you noticed the weld lines on the outside of the main-rail in picture #2, that is where I used the weld heat on that side of the rail to reverse the warp caused by the plate weld.
The 3/16 plates still need some stitching, and would consider their removal, except I am not sure how I would attach the A-frame without it. If you look at the arrows in picture 2, you can see the old and new 3/16 plates. The old plates have holes punched in them, and I suspect it was done to minimize warping when AS welded the frame.
I will be starting the angle cross-members today, weather permitting. I think once I get a little more lateral support in the frame, I will attempt more stitching on the plate.
I also noticed that the old frame was not square....now trying to figure out if and how to adjust the jig.
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11-14-2011, 02:24 PM
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#74
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Frame supports...I think
I have been busy working on the A/S for a few months, and haven't been very good about updating the thread.
I am building a new frame, and am somewhat stumped regarding the axle assembly. If you look at the attached, the picture shows an angle attached to the frame area, where the axles are mounted. I have been told that this is not factory. The question is, "should I use it?"...I think it was put in aftermarket, to help stiffen the frame. In addition there are many bolts holding the angle to the frame. "If I use the angle,should I bolt, or not bolt the angle assembly to the new frame?"
And how 'bout those 2 inch holes in the plate above the shock,,,,do I need those too?
Thanks in advance for your input!
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11-14-2011, 04:57 PM
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#75
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauxter
I have been busy working on the A/S for a few months, and haven't been very good about updating the thread.
I am building a new frame, and am somewhat stumped regarding the axle assembly. If you look at the attached, the picture shows an angle attached to the frame area, where the axles are mounted. I have been told that this is not factory. The question is, "should I use it?"...I think it was put in aftermarket, to help stiffen the frame. In addition there are many bolts holding the angle to the frame. "If I use the angle,should I bolt, or not bolt the angle assembly to the new frame?"
And how 'bout those 2 inch holes in the plate above the shock,,,,do I need those too?
Thanks in advance for your input!
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Thats an aftermarket repair.
There is no harm in reusing it and you could just weld it in place rather than bolts.
The "lightning" holes are not needed.
Did notice the crack in the second photo..
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11-14-2011, 07:09 PM
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#76
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Thanks Darkspeed. That cracked frame will be headed to the trailer park in the sky (scrap yard), when I am done stripping it.
I am getting close to the finish line on the frame. The cross-members are welded in, and most of the outriggers are tacked in place.
I noticed that the outriggers for the steps are 15", as opposed to 14 3/4 for a normal outrigger. I am wondering if I need that 1/4" as the steps will be traversed by angle aluminum...? I would like to cut them off of the old frame and reuse if possible.
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03-09-2012, 11:39 AM
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#77
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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2012 Activities Have Officially Begun
I am starting the season off with 500 pounds of fun!
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03-24-2012, 01:24 AM
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#78
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3 Rivet Member
1973 25' Tradewind
1962 22' Safari
Augusta
, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 169
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Hey Bauxter
Nice Work. Appears we are at the same place in our restoration. I have '73 Tradewind that got a new frame over the winter after learning to weld. What is your plan for shock brackets? I don't see any on the axles. I have new Dexter axles and have to relocate shock brackets from old axles. The arms of the axles appear to be cast. I was under impression that welding cast is a no-no. I also have some concern about the amount of heat on the axle and deforming the rubber bushing inside the axle. I'll note that the arm is welded to the square center rod that is installed in the axle tube - just not sure if home mig welding can weld this material.
Dennis
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03-24-2012, 07:33 PM
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#79
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGJackson
Hey Bauxter
Nice Work. Appears we are at the same place in our restoration. I have '73 Tradewind that got a new frame over the winter after learning to weld. What is your plan for shock brackets? I don't see any on the axles. I have new Dexter axles and have to relocate shock brackets from old axles. The arms of the axles appear to be cast. I was under impression that welding cast is a no-no. I also have some concern about the amount of heat on the axle and deforming the rubber bushing inside the axle. I'll note that the arm is welded to the square center rod that is installed in the axle tube - just not sure if home mig welding can weld this material.
Dennis
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Dennis, I am planning on seeing how the trailer rides without the shocks. I don't want to void the Dexter warranty. I cant comment on the mig, I started with a 110 flux core, but quickly moved to a big ol' arc welder. There are some folks that have posted to this thread that are very experienced in welding. You may want to shoot a note to Darkspeed, he just fabricated what seems to be the mother of all airstream frames...pretty awesome.
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04-04-2012, 06:07 PM
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#80
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4 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
Sunset Beach
, North Carolina
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 404
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Axles Installed!
All bolts in, and torqued to 100 lbs. What's amazing is I have used my little bottle jack to lift the shell off the frame. The new frame off of the old frame, and the axles into place. The best $19 I ever spent.
Next UP: Tank supports, POR 15, and then plywood deck. With a little luck and a lotta money, the shell will be back on in June.
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