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zacfrd · 09-08-2009, 10:44 AM

I have have just bought a 31 foot airstream excella 500 for 4000. Then Found out I need new axels and the rear frame is saging. I am not sure if I want to repair all this. First how hard is it to fix these things. Second if I was to sell whats it worth? Some guidance pleaase. Is it worth keeping and fixing?

overlander64 · 09-08-2009, 11:18 AM

Greetings zacfrd!

Welcome to the Forums and the world of Vintage Airstream ownership!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

I have have just bought a 31 foot airstream excella 500 for 4000. Then Found out I need new axels

Just about any Vintage (1961 or newer) Airstream (or Argosy for that matter) will need new axles if a previous owner hasn't already replaced them. They are an expense but your coach will thank you with less recurring maintenance as bad axles can contribute to a whole host of related problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

. . . and the rear frame is saging.

You will need to establish whether the coach has rear end separation and/or frame sag . . . two different problems with very different solutions.

Frame sag is evidenced by ripples or bulges in the exterior skin in the vicinity of the wheel wells -- it seems that the bulges typically appear to the rear of the wheel wells. Another indicator may be found by carefully examining the portion of the frame that is exposed between the axles . . . in bad cases of sag, it is possible to find a visible crack in the frame. The factory has a technical service bulletin covering this problem as well as a reinforcement kit that addresses the problem.
Rear end separation is identified by examining the joint between the frame extension to which the bumper is mounted with the body of the coach. Have someone sit or stand on the bumper while you observe each of these joints noting whether an opening forms between the body and frame rail . . . if an opening opens up then there is at least some separation present. Separation is also often accompanied by floor rot along the rear wall . . . particularly in the corners. Again this a problem for which there is a repair procedure that I believe was covered in another technical service bulletin. Coaches with the repair are often said to have "elephant ears" above the rear bumper due to skin patches applied to conceal installation of the reinforcing repair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

I am not sure if I want to repair all this. First how hard is it to fix these things.

You will need a good set of mechanic's tools for repair of either of these conditions including a selection of jacks, jack stands, riveting tool, wrenches, torque wrench, measuring tools, level, etc. Both repairs are labor intensive with varying expense depending upon the extent of the damage. With either repair, I suspect that the cost for dealer repair would start in the vicinity of $1,600 going up from there depending upon how extensive the damage may be. . . . A vintage friendly Airstream dealer could certainly examine your coach and give you an estimate for repairs in his/her shop. I had rear end separation and some very minor floor rot repaired in my Overlander a little more than ten years ago at Ace Fogdall RV in Cedar Falls, Iowa and even then the total for the repairs was approaching $3,000 about half of which was the separation repair and the balance being for the floor repair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

Second, if I was to sell whats it worth? Some guidance pleaase. Is it worth keeping and fixing?

One of the most commonly mentioned guides for assessing the value of a Vintage Airstream can be found on R.J. Dial's website at this link. I suspect that unless you negotiated a very good deal that you will find it difficult to sell your coach at the price you paid . . . in that case, you will need to factor in this "loss" if you decide to sell this coach and buy another. Also keep in mind the rule of thumb that nearly any vintage airstream is going to need axle or suspension attention - - and some (some may say most) will have some degree of rear end separation or frame sag.

When my Overlander was diagnosed with rear end separation five years after I purchased the coach, I ran the figures and it made more sense to keep the coach that I knew and have the repairs made rather than to purchase another coach that could end up needing similar or even more repairs. About the only way to approach this situation is a cost/benefit analysis repair of the current unit compared compared to the costs involved in selling the current unit and acquiring a different unit if that is your ultimate desire.

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin

wmarsha · 09-08-2009, 02:39 PM

although i have not done an axle replacement, I have read here on this forum about it and it appears to be quite straight forward. Not simple, but a bolt on deal. For a trailer as old as yours-it is good money to replace the axles. AND not that expensive when you look at the expense of brake repair/replacement. With new axles, ya get new brakes, too. I think for a trailer 25 years or older, that is the single best investment you can make-the peace of mind, even over the purchase of a newer trailer would be worth it. What I mean is a newer (different trailer) may not have good axles, either, and you know what you have now. My 2 cents says do it yourself and never look back.
ol bill

zacfrd · 09-09-2009, 07:02 PM

ok I am going to keep it and repair. I need some instruction please. are there any pics out there of fixing the frame and installing axels. also where can I buy new interior. Does airstream sell any of there new stuff?? cabinets curtins bunks fridge ac ect??? please guid me

overlander64 · 09-09-2009, 07:43 PM

Greetings zacfrd!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

ok I am going to keep it and repair. I need some instruction please. are there any pics out there of fixing the frame and installing axels. also where can I buy new interior. Does airstream sell any of there new stuff?? cabinets curtins bunks fridge ac ect??? please guid me

Here is a link to a diagram of the factory reinforcement plate for the frame -- see this link.

Detailed instructions from Airstream for installing the factory reinforcement kit can be found at this link.

Repairing Shell to Chassis Separation in 1969-1972 recommended repair procedures can be found at this link.

A comprehensive thread on axle replacement can be found at this link.

Airstream sells some new interior components, but be prepared for the cost - - it is probably more cost effective to have a local cabinet maker build what you need. What I did with both of my coaches was take them to Fowler RV Interiors where Arlene and Henry did amazing work in refurbishing my coaches' interiors. Arlene handles the upholstery, cleaning, and interior detailing. Henry is a wonderful wood worker and has made wonderful oak table tops for my original drop-leaf table (Overlander) and Credenza table (Minuet) as well as replacing a cabinet end panel that had been very badly damaged during refrigerator replacement -- and the cabinets in the Overlander were completely refinished to match the original golden oak.

Good luck with your projects!

Kevin

NevadaGeo · 09-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Someone mentioned you get new brakes with new axles, this is true if you have drum brakes. Not necessarily true if you have disc brakes. I reccommend keeping the disc if you can but that's a whole nother thread.

zacfrd · 09-10-2009, 09:55 AM

my trailer is a 77 is this frame repair the same on that?

zacfrd · 09-10-2009, 10:02 AM

also for a 77 31 foot what size axels do I need? Where should I get them.

kevin242 · 09-10-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

I have have just bought a 31 foot airstream excella 500 for 4000. Then Found out I need new axels and the rear frame is saging. I am not sure if I want to repair all this. First how hard is it to fix these things. Second if I was to sell whats it worth? Some guidance pleaase. Is it worth keeping and fixing?

Before you jump in and do a lot of repairs right off the bat... Are you planning on lots of long-distance travelling, or are you just going to stay in your local area? If you are a local user, the axles and frame repairs may not be urgent giving you the option of doing the repairs over time rather than spending big $$$ right away.

How advanced is the frame sag?

Also, do you have both the 1977 owners manual and the 1977 service manual for your trailer? I have them on CD and could mail it to you to print off if you want.

overlander64 · 09-10-2009, 10:29 AM

Greetings zacfrd!

The rear body to frame separation repairs are rather generic . . . the same basic procedure was followed by the shop to repair my '64s rear end separation . . . and a friend's '77.

The frame sag issue repair is a little different, and the factory or an Airstream repair center would be better able to identify any adjustments to that procedure that would be required for a coach other than the '69-'72 -- my suspicion is that the repair will remain the same as long as the frame member dimensions remain the same.

Good luck with your projects!

Kevin

zacfrd · 09-10-2009, 11:42 AM

I would like to go some distance. I dont know how bad the frame sag is whats bad? here are some pics

kevin242 · 09-10-2009, 12:15 PM

In picture DSC000391, are the indents visible (by the furnace vent and by the wheel well) associated with the frame sag, or are they from another separate incident?

zacfrd · 09-10-2009, 12:21 PM

Thats what I am trying to find out. Could this be caused by frame sag because its only on one side of my trailer?? I am trying to find out if I have frame sag or seperation.

zacfrd · 09-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Ok Is it best to get to the frame from the inside or under the trailer? I am going to just rip it apart and take a look.

kevin242 · 09-10-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

Ok Is it best to get to the frame from the inside or under the trailer? I am going to just rip it apart and take a look.

Actually, I suggest waiting a few days before just ripping into it from any angle. I'm sending you the service manual for your 1977 model and it shows the "exploded views" of your trailer. Best to make a plan first and be organized...

Also, I was asking about the indents just in case you could see an impact point that would suggest a dent from something striking the side.

Hang tough, the manuals are on the way. In the mean time - do as much research as you can here about this issue. There is a wealth of info on this site!

Anniedog · 09-11-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zacfrd

Ok Is it best to get to the frame from the inside or under the trailer? I am going to just rip it apart and take a look.

When you are "ripping it apart" do so with slow and methodical ripping. Just grabbing a crow bar and Sawzall will only provide future trouble. From the pictures you provided I don't see anything that dramatically wrong. But if you have to do the entire interior, AND a bunch of body and frame work, I would gently suggest you might want to sell it for what you can get and move on. And, to be brutally honest about it, owning and maintaining an Airstream trailer is not exactly easy or cheap.
Been there, several times, still own one, but there are many things I would not do again.

willyd · 09-11-2009, 07:55 AM

You should also check out InlandRV.com - They can offer a lot of assistance. Best of success.

Aage · 09-11-2009, 10:00 AM

Sorry to jump in here, but something you said made me wonder:

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander64

Frame sag is evidenced by ripples or bulges in the exterior skin in the vicinity of the wheel wells -- it seems that the bulges typically appear to the rear of the wheel wells. Another indicator may be found by carefully examining the portion of the frame that is exposed between the axles . . . in bad cases of sag, it is possible to find a visible crack in the frame. The factory has a technical service bulletin covering this problem as well as a reinforcement kit that addresses the problem.

A question for you, Kevin: do you feel that frame sag is always accompanied by the bulges or ripples you describe?

I ask that because my TT has none of those evident, but both the closets (between the rear bath and the sleeping area) won't close properly, one, the streetside one, much worse than the curbside one. Looking at the top of the door, the aft part of the door's top is much closer to the door frame than the fore part.

I took that to mean frame sag. I don't see any signs of that, but the frame isn't visible on my TT except where the axles are mounted.

I ruled out rear end separation because the wood that is visible from the trunk area is all good, showing no signs of rot at all, and same for the wood in the bath area. I have had the carpet out, and it's all dry and hard. I haven't removed the furniture, though.

You reminded me of the jump test, which I will do next week when I'm back at the TT.

To be honest, I haven't really been underneath the TT yet. It has sat in its present spot for the last ten years, and the wheels have sunken into the sand a few inches, which, together with the way the grade goes, don't offer enough room for me to get under it.

I mean to have it on the road next month though, and so am getting ready to have whatever is bothering the rear end repaired.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Aage

zacfrd · 09-11-2009, 11:44 AM

I think we should have local repair parties seeing as there is so much knowlage out there on repairs. I think it would be fun. I am new to these and have decided to keep mine and repair anything I can. I dont know if I even have the frame problem but I know I need axels. Thanks to the person who is sending me a repair manual so I know what I am doing. I am going to remodel the inside and I hope to be ready to take a trip in the spring. I want to go south. Anyone know a good place to go??? whats a good place to get new interiors?? I am so excited to get going on this silver bullet.

zacfrd · 09-11-2009, 11:50 AM

Here is a pic of under my air stream The tank pans are shot and its rusty. I can't see any cracks in frame and it looks straight to me?? I would like to get it cleaned up and look over it all. I also need new leveling jacks. I know I am going to have to have the pans made. Can I remove all the skin under the trailer with no problems and see everything?