Help with H20-2 Lock Please?

[Bubba L]

This is the H20-2 door lock off of my 1955 Flying Cloud and I am having two problems repairing it:

1) It came without the latch spring, so I ordered one from VintageCampers.com. Someone had replaced the latch spring with a typical spring to repair it previously and I'd prefer to fix it correctly. I got the spring and cannot figure out how to install it; I have a feeling it was previously installed before the latch? Is there a trick to installing it without removing the latch? Seems like it would take a tremendous amount of pressure to force it into place.


2) In another issue with the lock, I replaced the lock cylinder with one from VTS. I can rotate the cylinder so that it can lock from the outside, but then the inside handle will not release the lock mechanism. Furthermore, if I rotate the key of the locked door on the outside 180 degrees, the inside handle will release the lock mechanism, but I will not be able to remove the key on the outside. VTS says there are 4 different positions for the keyed cylinder to operate correctly with the locking mechanisms and I have tried them all unsuccessfully.

Appreciate any help!
Bubba

[Bubba L]

In regards to problem #1, I was able to get the spring installed by:
1. push the spring in place as far as I could
2. place the lockset into a vise
3. use 2 small screwdrivers as fulcrum/lever to force the spring into place.

[Bubba L]

In regards to issue #2, it is still unresolved.

To better explain the problem I have posted a video here LOCK_PROBLEM_LINK

The VTS cylinder for this lock is a 360-degree lock cylinder. I THINK it needs more of a 180-degree lock cylinder that allows you to turn it to 9 o'clock and lock it, turn it to 3 o'clock and unlock it, and turn it to 12 o'clock to allow the interior lock and handle to operate without the key inserted. For the inside of the lockset to function properly, the bushing that the lock cylinder stem fits into has to be in a specific position. The key has to be able to come out in all positions. As the video shows, the VTS cylinder does not allow the key to be removed when the bushing is in the correct position to allow the interior lock to function.

Appreciate any input!
Bubba

[montanablue]

I have an original new lock cylinder if you are interested. Maybe that would correct your problem.

Email me direct at r_whiten@hotmail.com
Rick

[Bubba L]

We returned the VintageTrailerSupply lock today because it allows the door to be locked/unlocked from the outside, but not from the inside. This was verified on another VTS cylinder we had access to. The VTS cylinder works as long as you have a deadbolt as backup, but I preferred not to do that.

I was able to modify a typical 180 degree cam lock cylinder to operate correctly. I epoxied a 1/4" bolt on the back of the cylinder and filed the end off square to fit into the square bushing. I don't know if I want to depend on this, so I will pursue Montanablue's cylinder too.

Good luck to those with H20 locksets!
Bubba

[teritchie]

Originally Posted by Bubba L

We returned the VintageTrailerSupply lock today because it allows the door to be locked/unlocked from the outside, but not from the inside. This was verified on another VTS cylinder we had access to. The VTS cylinder works as long as you have a deadbolt as backup, but I preferred not to do that.

I was able to modify a typical 180 degree cam lock cylinder to operate correctly. I epoxied a 1/4" bolt on the back of the cylinder and filed the end off square to fit into the square bushing. I don't know if I want to depend on this, so I will pursue Montanablue's cylinder too.

Good luck to those with H20 locksets!
Bubba

I have a 56 bubble with a bargman h-20. It will lock from the outside but not from the inside, or I can get it to lock from the inside but not from the outside. I have tried every different position I know and nothing seems to work. Any ideas, or anyone know a Bargeman lock expert?
Thanks for he reply.

[Bubba L]

Originally Posted by teritchie

I have a 56 bubble with a bargman h-20. It will lock from the outside but not from the inside, or I can get it to lock from the inside but not from the outside. I have tried every different position I know and nothing seems to work. Any ideas, or anyone know a Bargeman lock expert?
Thanks for he reply.

The H-20 is a well built lock but will only work correctly when the bushing, where the square lock cylinder tail piece fits, is in the right position. From what i’ve Found on mine is this; insert the key at the 12:00 o’clock position, turn the key to the 3:00 o’clock position to lock (turn the key back to the 12:00 o’clock position to allow the inside of the trailer mechanisms to operate), turn the key to the 9:00 o’clock position to unlock the door. Always return the bushing to the same 12:00 o’clock position to allow for inside and outside functions to operate as designed. I know this sounds a bit weird, but it’s really simple. From what I understand, the original key lock cylinder came from a 1948 Ford Mercury. That wouldn’t surprise me since a lot of various Ford parts were used way back then.
If you want to discuss, PM me and I will give you my contact info. Good luck, Bubba

[Bubba L]

Teritchie, maybe I have a Theo Bargman H-20 lock that doesn’t operate as all the others do. I may have one that’s been tampered with over the years. All I know is, if I can find a key lock cylinder that allows the lock set to operate correctly, I’ll be on Flying Cloud 9. I ain’t giving up. Thanks, Bubba

[goransons]

Bubba, I have a VTS cylinder and I have the issue, I can lock and unlock it from the outside, but the inside lock/unlock arm is jammed up, if I disengage the lock cylinder the inside arm works perfectly locking and unlocking the door. There is a "center" punched line on the square receptor on the lock housing, that needs to line up, but even then the lock cylinder doesn't seem to return to a neutral lock position (center) to remove for the inside guts to work.

[Bubba L]

I made some videos this morning to show my understanding of the H20 and how I modified a 180 degree cam lock cylinder to allow all functions of the H20 to work as intended. DISCLAIMER: I am no expert; if anybody has a better solution, please share.

Video 1 - How I modified a 180 degree cam lock cylinder

Video 2 - Fitting the modified cylinder into the H20

Video 3 - How it all operates

Hope this helps or helps generate a better solution,
Bubba

[teritchie]

Thanks Bubba. I will take a look at these. I have been puzzling over this for a while. I’m usually pretty good at anything mechanical but this lock has me stumped. As far as I know my lock is all original, but maybe not ......

[56bubble]

Hi
Just bought my 59 bubble and restoring it in Uk. My problem is my entire lock is missing. As I’m sure you know I can get the hand and lock barrel from vintage Airstream but I’m trying to find the rest of it! I think it’s a lost cause .... any help appreciated

[Bubba L]

I’ll keep my eyes open. I’m sure one will show up eventually. Anyway, if you’re rebuilding the Bubble, you’re a ways off from needing the lockset. Good luck, Bubba

[56bubble]

Thanks for your kind offer - much appreciated. As for not needing it for a while I restoring their not rebuilding and she’s nearly good to go. New floor, new wiring from trailer, new axles (Uk law means it’s got to be converted). It came empty so I’ve built a temporary interior as I won’t do a professional one till all my ideas are proven/come via use which needs a bit of finishing but we have mains, 12v, a fridge, cooker/hob, sink with 10litres of hot water stored and air con planned. Full double bed, wardrobe, food prep area and two seats and table. Currently the suspension and brakes is all in bits and plan is new shackles and bolts and fixing the cables correctly and she’s road worthy by Friday. So with luck we will go away next weekend to see what’s working and whats not

So a lock is high on my agenda....

[montanablue]

Hi,
I have a right hand H20 lock if you are interested. I sent you a message.

You can email me direct at r_whiten@hotmail.com

All the best,
Rick

[Love trip]

I have a 56 Bubble with a h20 bargman handle. The set works great aside from locking. Looks to be the original old key that fits in cylinder perfect but the key will not turn in either direction. Therefore, won’t lock. Curious if someone might know why the key won’t turn.
Thanks.

[Bubba L]

Originally Posted by Love trip

I have a 56 Bubble with a h20 bargman handle. The set works great aside from locking. Looks to be the original old key that fits in cylinder perfect but the key will not turn in either direction. Therefore, won’t lock. Curious if someone might know why the key won’t turn.
Thanks.

The H-20 is not that difficult of a mechanism. But, all facets of the lockset have to work correctly. In your case, it seems to be either the cylinder or the bushing where the lock cylinder square stem fits into. Some had a small panel on the inside of the door that could be removed to access the lockset. If that’s the case, you may want to remove the lockset and housing to access all the components. There could be several possibilities so it’s hard to say. Could even be a broken spring inside the housing that has jambed the works. There’s only one primary spring inside the housing that is available if broken. When time allows, maybe looks at the video on this thread. That may give you some ideas. Also, you can purchase a new lock cylinder from VTS that will work the exterior locking function, just not the interior. Good luck and let me know what you found.

[islandtrader]

Originally Posted by Bubba L

The H-20 is a well built lock but will only work correctly when the bushing, where the square lock cylinder tail piece fits, is in the right position. From what i’ve Found on mine is this; insert the key at the 12:00 o’clock position, turn the key to the 3:00 o’clock position to lock (turn the key back to the 12:00 o’clock position to allow the inside of the trailer mechanisms to operate), turn the key to the 9:00 o’clock position to unlock the door. Always return the bushing to the same 12:00 o’clock position to allow for inside and outside functions to operate as designed. I know this sounds a bit weird, but it’s really simple. From what I understand, the original key lock cylinder came from a 1948 Ford Mercury. That wouldn’t surprise me since a lot of various Ford parts were used way back then.
If you want to discuss, PM me and I will give you my contact info. Good luck, Bubba

I finally got to look at my lock set. I need a new main spring and lock. Other than that using your post as a guide everything works like it should. The one thing I noticed was your inside open and close handle is in a different position than mine. Mine is attached directly to the out side handle and yours is attached to something lower in the casing.

[Bubba L]

Originally Posted by islandtrader

I finally got to look at my lock set. I need a new main spring and lock. Other than that using your post as a guide everything works like it should. The one thing I noticed was your inside open and close handle is in a different position than mine. Mine is attached directly to the out side handle and yours is attached to something lower in the casing.

Thanks Terry. Now I won’t sleep until I get this figured out. Off hand, I don’t know why the difference. I’ll look into it. While yours is out of the door, can you send me a picture of the insides? I want to compare. Intriguing. Thanks

[islandtrader]

Originally Posted by bubba l

thanks terry. Now i won’t sleep until i get this figured out. Off hand, i don’t know why the difference. I’ll look into it. While yours is out of the door, can you send me a picture of the insides? I want to compare. Intriguing. Thanks