Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2007, 11:51 PM   #1
Streamline Imperial
 
SilvrSausage's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Bellflower , California
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 109
Lightbulb Using a standpipe as an accumulator?

I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried using a standpipe instead of an accumulator to damp water pump pulses. A standpipe consists of a vertical piece as large of a diameter pipe as possible, and as tall as possible, capped on the top with the bottom teed into the water system. The principle is, air in the pipe compresses and forms a "cushion" in the system to damp pulses and provide a small pressure reserve between pulses during slow flow.

The advantage of using this is it can be incorporated into the wall, as opposed to an accumulator tank, which takes up precious cubic inches inside the trailer.

Has anyone ever tried this?

-SilverSausage
__________________

__________________
It seems I love the mountains and deserts more than my friends do. I sure miss them!

1971 Streamline Imperial project "Silver Snausage", 1985 Coleman tent trailer, 1964 Little Dipper, 1975 Northwest "Proto Toyhauler", 2004 Harbor Freight folding, still seeking my Airstream.
SilvrSausage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:06 AM   #2
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' International CCD
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1957 22' Flying Cloud
Simi Valley , California
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,251
Images: 2
mr sausage,

why not just use a SHURflo Smart Sensor 4.0?

you won't need anything but.

just sayin.

tanked
__________________

__________________
Kevbo10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:20 AM   #3
Streamline Imperial
 
SilvrSausage's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Bellflower , California
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 109
Thumbs up

Fair enough question. I happen to be in the middle of a panels-off restoration, so it would be easy and very cheap to put a piece or two of pipe in a convenient wall while I am at it, as opposed to a bulky accumulator.

As far as a better pump, I'm looking at under $10 worth of pipe, versus $75 to 150+ for the better pumps out there. The budget has already gotten kind of out of hand on this project, but I do intend to upgrade to a nice pump like that someday, perhaps when the one I have breaks.

It might be sooner though, especially if the standpipe idea doesn't help any... this pulse pump knocks like it is there to serve a warrant!

-SilverSausage
__________________
It seems I love the mountains and deserts more than my friends do. I sure miss them!

1971 Streamline Imperial project "Silver Snausage", 1985 Coleman tent trailer, 1964 Little Dipper, 1975 Northwest "Proto Toyhauler", 2004 Harbor Freight folding, still seeking my Airstream.
SilvrSausage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:25 AM   #4
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' International CCD
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1957 22' Flying Cloud
Simi Valley , California
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,251
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrSausage
Fair enough question. I happen to be in the middle of a panels-off restoration, so it would be easy and very cheap to put a piece or two of pipe in a convenient wall while I am at it, as opposed to a bulky accumulator.

As far as a better pump, I'm looking at under $10 worth of pipe, versus $75 to 150+ for the better pumps out there. The budget has already gotten kind of out of hand on this project, but I do intend to upgrade to a nice pump like that someday, perhaps when the one I have breaks.

It might be sooner though, especially if the standpipe idea doesn't help any... this pulse pump knocks like it is there to serve a warrant!

-SilverSausage
mr sausage,

you're a contrast of ideas.

you want long hot showers, i'll assume w/ some amount of pressure, and you're boondocking, but don't wanna spend an extra 50 bux for:

no hammering
50psi
flow rate of 4gpm

you're correct, go w/ what you have and a pc of pipe.

yours,

bent w. lee
__________________
Kevbo10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:53 AM   #5
Streamline Imperial
 
SilvrSausage's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Bellflower , California
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 109
Contrast of ideas? Actually, I'm more the wizard of ideas few seem to have tried before. Some of my grandiose ideas work out surprisingly well. Others... not so much.

My setup is such that the primary water tank and everything including the standpipe would be within the insulated shell; an accumulator would use cabinet space, the standpipe, none. I can locate supplemental water tanks under the floor for long showers when freezing is not a concern (most of the year in So. Cal, but I do go on winter camping trips in the local mountains.) As a year-round part of the water system, the damping device can't go down there despite the extra space, you see.
-SilverSausage
__________________
It seems I love the mountains and deserts more than my friends do. I sure miss them!

1971 Streamline Imperial project "Silver Snausage", 1985 Coleman tent trailer, 1964 Little Dipper, 1975 Northwest "Proto Toyhauler", 2004 Harbor Freight folding, still seeking my Airstream.
SilvrSausage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 07:24 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
rseagle's Avatar
 
2004 22' International CCD
Spotsylvania , Virginia
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 663
Images: 33
Camping World sells a FloJet RV High Volume Water Pressure System (#13247) that includes the pump, strainer and an integrated 1.2 gal accumulator tank. I'd feel more comfortable investing in one of those than what you're proposing.
__________________
Bob
---------------
"THE BAUXITE BUNGALOW"
2004 22' CCD
1997 F-150
TAC VA-12
AIR# 4749
ex WBCCI# 1430
rseagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 07:38 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Jim Clark's Avatar
 
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrSausage
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried using a standpipe instead of an accumulator to damp water pump pulses. A standpipe consists of a vertical piece as large of a diameter pipe as possible, and as tall as possible, capped on the top with the bottom teed into the water system. The principle is, air in the pipe compresses and forms a "cushion" in the system to damp pulses and provide a small pressure reserve between pulses during slow flow.

The advantage of using this is it can be incorporated into the wall, as opposed to an accumulator tank, which takes up precious cubic inches inside the trailer.

Has anyone ever tried this?

-SilverSausage
It is what I would do. Saves time and money.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
Jim Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 07:39 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Royce's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 716
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrSausage
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried using a standpipe instead of an accumulator to damp water pump pulses. ... ... provide a small pressure reserve between pulses during slow flow. ...

-SilverSausage
If you take that approach, be sure to provide a method of airing the standpipe. they will slowly fill with water and quit working if you cannot refill with air. That can be accomplished wiith a valve stem added to the top of the standpipe or you can re-air by draining the system. Of course you may want to consider placing in in an interior wall to provide a measure of 3 season use anyway. You most likely thought of that.

I don't think they will do much to dampen the pump pulses or quiet the pump, just increase the time between pump turn on and off while running a slow stream.
__________________
Royce (K0RKK) 146.460 simplex
Web page http://spearfishcreek.net/
AIR# 3913
'77' Minuet 6 Metre, behind a 2005 stock Jeep Rubicon with Equa-L-Zer hitch.
Royce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 08:25 AM   #9
VAC President
 
Buttercup's Avatar
 
1977 27' Overlander
1954 25' Cruiser
1990 34.5' Airstream 345
VC Highlands , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,149
Send a message via Skype™ to Buttercup
Quote:
I don't think they will do much to dampen the pump pulses or quiet the pump, just increase the time between pump turn on and off while running a slow stream.
And that will shorten pump life - the pump will be running longer periods of time under greater load - this could lead to early winding failure.
__________________
Buttercup's Web Site. WBCCI #17330, 11281 & 7830. VAC Past President, TAC NV-2 & NV-3
Buttercup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 08:31 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
53flyingcloud's Avatar
 
1984 29' Sovereign
Savannah , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,458
Images: 17
Blog Entries: 1
SilvrSausage,
Curious mind..
You might want to change your profile from..."currently looking to......whatever the unit you now own..."
Interesting topics..BTW, when boon-docking, Wally used the simplest approach..Just dig a hole out back and, let it go back to nature's bio..

Works..but, not legal..
__________________
53flyingcloud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 11:11 AM   #11
Liberator
 
klattu's Avatar
 
1972 Argosy 24
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Heart of Dixie , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,646
Images: 834
Can't Touch This

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrSausage
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried using a standpipe instead of an accumulator to damp water pump pulses. A standpipe consists of a vertical piece as large of a diameter pipe as possible, and as tall as possible, capped on the top with the bottom teed into the water system. The principle is, air in the pipe compresses and forms a "cushion" in the system to damp pulses and provide a small pressure reserve between pulses during slow flow.

The advantage of using this is it can be incorporated into the wall, as opposed to an accumulator tank, which takes up precious cubic inches inside the trailer.

Has anyone ever tried this?

-SilverSausage
Yes,
It works great.
Will really help if your having the hammer at turn off.
And it 'recharges' at each drainage.
Your idea is used by many plumbers, as I see it often at the end of a long run.
Most times it is a same size of pipe.
Your going to a upsize would be even better.
__________________
klattu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 11:32 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
Excella CM's Avatar
 
1978 31' Excella 500
Venice , California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,061
You can increase the capacity of a damper/accumulator by using a bell reducer to a larger size tubing- say 1" or greater.
__________________
"Not all who are laundering are washed" say Bill & Heidi

'78 Excella 500,"The Silver Pullit". vacuum over hydraulic disc brakes, center bath, rear twin. '67 Travelall 1200 B 4X4 WBCCI 3737
Excella CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 12:08 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
clancy_boy's Avatar
 
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln , Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Images: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvrSausage
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried using a standpipe instead of an accumulator to damp water pump pulses. A standpipe consists of a vertical piece as large of a diameter pipe as possible, and as tall as possible, capped on the top with the bottom teed into the water system. The principle is, air in the pipe compresses and forms a "cushion" in the system to damp pulses and provide a small pressure reserve between pulses during slow flow.

The advantage of using this is it can be incorporated into the wall, as opposed to an accumulator tank, which takes up precious cubic inches inside the trailer.

Has anyone ever tried this?

-SilverSausage
There are purpose built stand pipe or "water hammer" damping devices sold in the plumbing departments of most big box home stores They are generally a little larger then the diameter of the pipe you will be attaching it to I have one in my garage at the sink - it's one inch in diameter and 18" long attached to 1/2" copper pipe. It has a rubber bladder which compresses when hit with a slam of a shut of in the water system. The rubber bladder eliminates the need for air entrapment by draining. Really quiets the plumbing but would have no effect to reduce water pump cycling in a trailer - not enough bladder volume like an accumulator.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	watre hammer.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	66.5 KB
ID:	45901  
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ
The family has grown.
2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
clancy_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Crusty's Avatar
 
1992 34' Excella
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 562
Images: 10
I did this very thing at a house I once owned which had water hammer issues and it soved the problem. The downside though was that after a while the air bubble traped in the column under pressure would eventually dissolve into the water and leave the standpipe full of water and ineffective as a hydraulic shock absorber. I put a valve in the top of the pipe which I could open when the water pressure was relieved to admit some more air.
__________________

__________________
Crusty
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it."
Austin, TX "Rancho Deluxe"
Crusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What size Accumulator? '07 Bambi 19' Phantom Fresh Water Systems 10 08-21-2007 09:56 AM
New Water Pump or Accumulator Al - K4GLU Water Heaters, Filters & Pumps 4 08-15-2007 10:45 AM
Why no accumulator? Roger S Fresh Water Systems 29 08-09-2007 07:30 PM
Accumulator Tank silversled Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 16 02-01-2007 09:32 PM
ShurFlo Accumulator?!? SilverToy Water Heaters, Filters & Pumps 6 04-19-2005 11:07 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.