Visit our Popular Forums

Derin_Don · 06-18-2008, 07:48 AM

Hey -

When de-winterizing my 1970 27' Rear bath Overlander, I had the unfortunate experience of having the shower faucet come off in my hand. A quick once over determined that the cartridge had frozen up and the cartridge clip disintigrated when I applied pressure to the faucet. I've managed to procure a new cartridge and clip but am now completely at a loss as to how to insert the cartridge clip. From the schematics I pulled up on the Moen website, it appears that the area where the cartridge is secured with the clip is behind the vanity bulkhead. A quick perusal of the rear compartment shows where the shower plumbing enters the tub but it is all but impossible to get to without disconnecting most of the other plumbing. The bathroom vanity appears to be one molded piece but on closer inspection, I see the top and bottom are riveted into place and a piece of trim covers the seam. Therefore, it would seem that I could drill out the rivets and remove the top of the vanity to get to the plumbing behind the bulkhead. I didn't want to start demo until I'd consulted a few folks.

Has anyone else experienced this and what have you done to get the problem solved.

Thanks in advance!

Derin

peegreen · 06-18-2008, 09:50 AM

Derin,
If you are talking about the very thin, long U shaped clip with a little ridge on top, it should be externally accessible one you remove the handle, faucet assembly trim ring and the chrome or aluminum trim tube that keeps the handle aligned with the valve - keeps it from turning too far left/right.

Derin_Don · 06-18-2008, 12:32 PM

Ah, so the tube ring is also supposed to pop out. That seems lodged in there pretty good. I'll try a little gentle persuasion on that and see what comes of it. I know I can feel where the cartridge clip should slide in when I feel inside the channel. THANK YOU!

peegreen · 06-18-2008, 02:51 PM

Spray some liquid wrench or nut buster etc in there - it's probably seized up with a little corrosion from the dissimilar metals. A little rocking back and forth should get it to move. Easy to get new replacement if you need one. You'll see the clip underneath.

Derin_Don · 06-23-2008, 01:07 PM

Success!

I applied a bit more force and the tube ring slid out. I had the whole thing reassembled in about 10 minutes.

I appreciate your help.

Erik Olson · 09-28-2011, 09:19 PM

Updating this thread. Here is a photo of one of the mixing cartridges used in mid-70s models. Mine is 1974 Ambassador, rear bath version.

As soon as I get the complete part number / available OEM replacement part(s), I'll post them up here. Note that there is one o-ring missing at the end of the cartridge, right about where the 4" mark is on the ruler.

The corresponding knob you'll see will likely be this one.

**Aage** · 09-28-2011, 10:12 PM

That same cartridge was used in many, many Moen faucets.

The one in this thread seemed to come out pretty easily, I think. Read about the job we had to do on our kitchen sink tap (exact same valve). It's in this thread, post number 44. That was a form of torture, getting it out!

I wound up talking to the Moen Helpline, and man, were they good. On their recommendation, I soaked the cartridge (before removal) in vinegar, and once it finally came out, scrubbed it's resting place with a toothbrush and more vinegar. It has worked beautifully ever since.

They made it clear that once the scrubbing was done, to let the tap run with no cartridge for a few seconds to make sure that nothing was left in the channel. We did that by placing a bucket over it, aiming it at the sink, and letting it blast.

Thanks for those photos. When we were doing ours, we got so into it I completely forgot to photograph it when it was apart.

Riverrat6270 · 09-29-2011, 05:50 AM

I would highly suggest replacing the Moen brass cartridge model #1200 with the #1225 plastic cartridge. Shouldn't seize up in the body of the faucet. Been fighting froze up cartridges for years. Also, Moen sells a cartridge puller for severly seized cartridges. And if you pull the center out of the cartridge, there is even a fix for that. Usually screw a lag screw into the center and start pulling back out.

Erik Olson · 09-29-2011, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aage

That same cartridge was used in many, many Moen faucets.

The one in this thread seemed to come out pretty easily, I think. Read about the job we had to do on our kitchen sink tap (exact same valve). It's in this thread, post number 44. That was a form of torture, getting it out!

I wound up talking to the Moen Helpline, and man, were they good. On their recommendation, I soaked the cartridge (before removal) in vinegar, and once it finally came out, scrubbed it's resting place with a toothbrush and more vinegar. It has worked beautifully ever since.

They made it clear that once the scrubbing was done, to let the tap run with no cartridge for a few seconds to make sure that nothing was left in the channel. We did that by placing a bucket over it, aiming it at the sink, and letting it blast.

Thanks for those photos. When we were doing ours, we got so into it I completely forgot to photograph it when it was apart.

More great advice, thanks! Is there a replacement knob for our worn one? I'm hoping Lowes can help me with this, but I'm prepared to go to the real plumbing supply for what I need. I noticed the two flanges and the squared center shaft are pretty well worn. Could be best to just replace the cartridge than try to replace o-rings. 37 years is a pretty good service run!

Mikethefixit · 09-29-2011, 09:32 AM

The MOEN Cartridge can be obtain at LOWES. I replaced the ones in our 77,which are exactly like the photo. HOWEVER DONT LOOK for MOEN. THERE is a Different brand which is all brass and a direct replacement. I found that MOEN does not make these valves. They are made by a different company FOR MOEN.
I found the Moen Valve(at Lowes) but the valve with the differnent name was the same thing but at half the price.
GOOD LUCK
ROGER

**Aage** · 09-29-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikethefixit

The MOEN Cartridge can be obtain at LOWES. I replaced the ones in our 77,which are exactly like the photo. HOWEVER DONT LOOK for MOEN. THERE is a Different brand which is all brass and a direct replacement. I found that MOEN does not make these valves. They are made by a different company FOR MOEN.
I found the Moen Valve(at Lowes) but the valve with the differnent name was the same thing but at half the price.
GOOD LUCK
ROGER

We were fortunate in that we found a great person working at the Home Depot near where we keep Henri (our Sovereign). He pointed out that Moen have a lifetime guarantee on those cartridges, and just gave us one for free.

The barrel of it is brass, by the way, no idea if Moen actually made it or not, but it came in a plastic bag that included instructions and the little plastic tool that is needed to turn the cartridge in order to loosen it so it can be pulled out. I had to use ViseGrips on the shaft, and tap the ViceGrips with a hammer.

As for the handle and its chrome trim disc (that hides the screw holding it in), if Moen doesn't stock it any more I would be surprised. I would be even more surprised if some third-party company doesn't make them, seeing as how so many were sold. Any good hardware store that I've seen always has a wall full of knobs for the various high-selling bathroom and kitchen faucets.

Not Done · 09-29-2011, 11:42 AM

Oops, I saw the pics in the banner before I saw the post so I replied PM. I took my old one into Lowes and they had a replacement, easy.

Erik Olson · 09-29-2011, 12:25 PM

One thing you should know about both the Moen 1200 and Danco replacement cartridge is that neither come with a saddle "retainer" clip. Even if a PO has somehow bent the two legs at a 90 degree angle, so that they protrude from the front of the valve assembly, causing you to break them off to remove the clip, you should strive to not break the clip.

Oh, in the event you don't (or cannot) heed my warning, those clips are Moen part 96365

AirsDream · 09-29-2011, 03:28 PM

One quick comment: as someone noted above, Moen makes a "puller" for their faucet cartridges. In many instances, I have simply been unable to pull the cartridge without the puller. But it has never failed. Get them at plumbing supply stores that cater to plumbers and not homeowners ... I don't think the big box stores usually stock the pullers. And yes, be sure to clean out the cavity thoroughly before re-installing the cartridge. A little food grade silicone grease (also available at the plumbing supply) usually makes the job a cinch. Oh, and yeah - and as Mr. Olson notes, don't break the retaining clip!