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Old 10-02-2017, 08:11 PM   #1
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Replaced the city water bulkhead fitting. Can't connect pex now

I replaced the city water connection on our '91 excella with a new one from the AS parts supplier near where I live. It has a right angle barbed fitting and nut to connect the inside pipe to the bulkhead fitting. I had a couple leaks in the grey fittings that allow for drain down, so I converted to pex. Unfortunately the barb fitting on the bulkhead fitting won't go into the pex tubing as it's about the same diameter. I tried a pex right angle fitting connected to the bulkhead fitting but it won't hold the pressure from the pump. I might be able to use a short segment of rubber hose between the bulkhead fitting barb and a pex barb fitting, but now things are getting kinda rigged, and I don't like rubber hose in a compartment that's not always in easy view.

There's a picture someone posted of their city water bulkhead fitting and it's clearly pex with a crimp. Is there a pex compatible right angle fitting that works with the city water body to seal and not leak?
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:47 PM   #2
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Yeah, that fitting isn't a PEX barb unfortunately. Just the tiniest bit too big. It's possible to massage the PEX tubing on to it, but it's not ideal. The right thing to do is to get some 1/2" ID braided nylon tubing at the hardware store that will fit the barb, and secure it with stainless worm gear hose clamps.

You'll find the barb fittings that come with your water pump require the same treatment.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:00 PM   #3
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Link to a picture

Post 16 in the thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f456...if-158665.html has a picture of the connection to the water inlet on my 2013 trailer. And yes, there is a right-angle barb fitting that is the right size for PEX. Since this is what my trailer came with, I don't know the part number or supplier for that part.
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Old 10-02-2017, 10:18 PM   #4
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That pex fitting you're looking for is a elbow swivel adapter.3rd picture.
http://www.sharkbite.com/product/adapters/

I don't recommend connecting this way directly to the FW inlet though. There should be some rubber hose in there. I bet if you read the inlet instructions it even says to have flexible rubber hose.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:24 PM   #5
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Wow... glad to see I am not the only one that is working on the PB tubing replacement for the trailer... it seems that AS used the worst stuff they could when they built the thing... so we too started with a slow seepage at one of the fittings.. .and progressed to a drip and wet area... not good... So we replaced all the tubing with new PEX red, blue and white...

We found a great way to pull it through... on some sweeps... by crimping a fitting into the old tube.. and the new PEX... and then pulling the old through the retainers... seemed to work on a few of the sweeps...

We tried to keep the tubing sweeps without many fittings... as AS did... but the new PEX is a tougher material... and so you have to use brass 90 fittings... to get around things...

I used the copper crimp rings on all my fittings... (brass) and a good set of tools... such as apollo, sharkbite (US made) and my best tool for the job the Ridgid hand crimping tool...that has the 45 deg head.. for tight places... but, after all the fittings... I now have a killer grip when I shake hands... its made things painful at first working on the hand strength...(grin)

As to the water input... I got a Sharkbite Drop Ear Elbow, Lead Free, .5 Brass Pex Barb x .5-In. FPT fitting at the local big box store... and then you screw in the hose adapter... it is the right size for the 1/2 in PEX Tubing... and you make up the run before you put it in... in my case I went from the drop ear elbow... to PEX to a 90 brass to the input of the water pressure regulator... that has the tie in union... The only ting that is of consern is the PEX is UV sensitive... so I put the 1/2 in PEX inside a piece of plastic pipe tubing that is not sensitive... Working from the outside.. feed it through the existing holes up through the floor.. and in... at the rear of the trailer...

Now the fitting you have... might be the expansion PEX one... for it you use a PEX tubing expanding tool... which make the PEX larger inside for a few seconds.. push the fitting in and let the tube memory come back... locking the fitting in place... its a common way that houses are plumbed.. and they don't use compression rings... they allow the PEX.. which can expand 1.5 x its org size... to come back to its normal size after expanding it to get the fitting in... PEX is pretty tough stuff... and it has self healing memory...so they say... and show in youtube...

I found that my major investments were in brass fittings (cha-ching$) and tools... but getting good tools...is worth it...

Good luck in your adventure... we found that everytime we messed with the Pb (gray stuff.. ) it started leaking.. and as others said... now is the time to get it out of their and put good stuff back in... The only problem is the tubing and fittings... are made for homes.. and RV's such as AS use special ones... poooo.. but hey now its home qualified and easy to get parts for... just have to go 90's and crimp rings.. as the PEX is much more stiff... (grin)

Changing the old stuff out... to the new PEX is a much better idea... so as not to wet the floor... and have leaks while on the road... Its not that expensive.. but getting to places after the cabnets are in place... is a pain... brused and lots of strain on the bod...

Also a lot of people are looking at plastic fittings, sharkbite push on fitting and all... I wouldn't use 'em... even though they are quicker/cheaper/easier... they don't seem to hold up... don't get cheap... do it right the first time... and enjoy....

Most of the RV industry now are using the stainless steel locking rings... that are a little more expensive. but hold up pretty good.. and only takes one tool to tighten up the rings... The copper band type compression rings are like wearing a belt with suspenders... but, are more difficult to install...

G.M>
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:57 PM   #6
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Other post made me think. Get a crimping tool from store and try to recrimp the copper ring in place. If it was under crimped that could be an easy fix. Then return the tool?
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver View Post
Other post made me think. Get a crimping tool from store and try to recrimp the copper ring in place. If it was under crimped that could be an easy fix. Then return the tool?

Att doesn't work.... the manufacture says to cut away the old.. and put a new ring on... If you use brass or metal fittings you can get a tool from apollo that will cut the rung (id copper) and you can re-use the fitting..

but if plastic... attt wrong answer.. go with a new fitting.. hopefully brass...
What we found if you try to re-crimp the rings... you will over stress the tube... or the plastic fitting and then you WILL have a little leak that becomes a big one... further on...

If you think the ring is not crimped enough.. their is a gauge for that... mostly its a go ... no-go thing...

But chances are you have the plastic fitings and PB (gray tubing)... which at the joint has failed... (we found that it was the fitting to the tube that becomes the problem... and it has to do with the new chemicals in the metro water that they are using... which cause the joint failures... some say its the clorine.. but others say its just age...and breakdown....that was the major problem of that tubing... second was freezing... and cracking...

If you have the PB tube.. gray.. you can get adapter fittings to the new PEX tubing which is a different size do to wall thickness of the PEX tubing...
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:20 PM   #8
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HiJoeSilver, I hadn't seen that fitting on pexs website before. Does the male portion of the fitting actually seal against the freshwater bulkhead fitting? The brass angle fitting with barb fitting doesn't seal. As mentioned earlier, I could use a short segment of hose and two barb fittings, the original swivel on the bulkhead fitting and a pex but it looks a little rigged. I can't find the swivel fitting you linked to at my local orange big box store. Maybe I'll try the other one that spells cobalt with a K instead of a C.

Thanks
Kurt
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:23 PM   #9
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Yes it has a rubber seal inside it that seals against the FW inlet connection.

For the best connection use the original connector with some flexible hose on it held with hose clamp. If you can get a nice loop in the hose it's better. On the other end of the hose you want a 1/2" hose barb to 1/2" MPT. Then you'll use one of the 1/2" female swivel fittings to connect into the pex. The female swivel has a rubber seal inside it so no pipe tape needed. I prefer the stainless steel pex crimp rings.

Here's the fitting for the back of the FW inlet if you don't have one.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002I...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:29 AM   #10
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I thought he was after the city water bulkhead connection... and not the internal ones...

Which one is he trying to replace... bulkhead is the place where you hook up the garden hose... internal is where you hook up the water heater.. etc...

If its the city water bulkhead connection.. then PEX makes a fitting for that... look for sharkbite or apollo... if your looking for the water heater connection... then again sharkbite makes a 1/2 pex to 1/2MPT in both a inline and 90 deg fitting... that goes on by hand etc...

No if you hook it up with PEX tubing.. you don't have to use hose.. which will leak... go with the PEX directly to the city water fitting... 90 deg 1/2MPT to 1/2PEX... brass... and then go PEX to the regulator... no need for flexable hose... actually it would be worse... due to the ablility to flex... All the new ones are PEX only... no more stinking hoses that will leak and give you problems... eventually... and is the reason that they did go to PEX directly... the hose has a tendency to harden and crack right at the clamp joint... so we have found from other members trailers... going to PEX with copper rings.. saves the day for about 20 years... or so...

Little confused about what exactly he is trying to do... here... and appears as though their are two trains of thought...


"<Other post made me think. Get a crimping tool from store and try to recrimp the copper ring in place. If it was under crimped that could be an easy fix. Then return the tool?>"......
really... that cheap... wow... if you had to take it to AS what do you think they would charge you... buy the tool... its cheaper... and be a AS owner...
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:40 AM   #11
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Good morning guys. To clarify, I have a replacement bulkhead fitting from AS, but the barb swivel fitting on it is slightly larger than 1/2" pex tubing. Itried a brass pex right angle barb fitting but it doesn't have the same seat as the AS fitting, and even though it has an o-ring inside of it, it won't seal against trailer pump pressure. So, I'll try and find the plastic pex swivel fitting HiJoSilver linked ans see if that seals, or I can use a length of plastic tubing to connect the AS barb fitting that came with the AS bulkhead fitting. As mentioned earlier, I'd rather not do the hose but we'll see how things go. Thanks
Kurt
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmvd View Post
Good morning guys. To clarify, I have a replacement bulkhead fitting from AS, but the barb swivel fitting on it is slightly larger than 1/2" pex tubing. Itried a brass pex right angle barb fitting but it doesn't have the same seat as the AS fitting, and even though it has an o-ring inside of it, it won't seal against trailer pump pressure. So, I'll try and find the plastic pex swivel fitting HiJoSilver linked ans see if that seals, or I can use a length of plastic tubing to connect the AS barb fitting that came with the AS bulkhead fitting. As mentioned earlier, I'd rather not do the hose but we'll see how things go. Thanks
Kurt
the reason why its not fitting the PEx.. is because its made for the PB (gray tubing).. which is just a shade larger... i.e thin'er wall tube... as the outside dimension is the same...

IF its got a O ring inside it.. you got the wrong fitting... the right angle fittings for PEX ( 1/2 to 1/2MPT) doesn't have a O ring.. it has a seal.... AND DEPENDING on what your trying to seal up against...they do... seal up on the plastic or brass 1/2 in pipe..... and you don't use any teflon on the threads.. as it works as a compression fitting... the 1/2 in barb should go into the PEX tube.. and with a crimp ring (copper or SS) it seals up great... If your not following the directions and putting the compresson ring in the wrong position.. yep you get leaks.. but most of us put it about 1/8 in frm the fitting...so that the compresson takes place on the second and third barb on the PEx fitting....

Now if your using hardware brass hose fitting.. yep they won't work... sorry.. and if your trying to use the sprial hose clamps... they won't work.. you have to use the parts that the system was designed for...

Again your not saying where this fitting is... as the city water input is down on the frame...

AND YOU HAVE TO USE PEx compression rings to seal the pipe to the fitting... anything else.. your waisting your time... and money...
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:29 PM   #13
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The plastic fittings are worse... stick with brass.... again where is this bulkhead fitting going on... and if your trying to mate it to the old PB (gray tube)... or use the Pb fittings the Pb (gray) tube is larger in i.d. .... the PEX fittings will appear to be loser in the Pb tubing... and if you crimp it..it will leak... if your going from PEX and fittings... you have to then use a adapter... i.e sharkbite has a brass fitting that goes from the old PB tubing... larger ... to the new PEX tubing... smaller iD.

So (its anyones guess ) if your going to splice into the old PB (gray).. you will have to terminate it with the adapter fitting...(streight line) then go to a piece of PEX.. and then go with pex fitting from their on...

But, that being said... the old PB (gray) stuff is no good... after all these years.. and it seems that with the junk they are putting in the drinking water these days... results in the PB lines seeping and leaking eventually... at the fittings... go figure...

adapting will work for a while.. but, when one has the time.. best to get the old gray out and new PEc in...

I found a neat way to pull the lines.... put a adapter fitting on the end... and when pulling the old line out.. it pulls the new PEX line in... only probem is that some of the lines in the AS are 3/8 in... and the box stores only have 1/2 for homes... won't hurt to go bigger but... in the case of hot water.. the line takes a vol of water.. and so the hot wont be their as quick.. and you go through the water in the line for it to get their...so when boondocking... you can use up to a gallon of water getting the hot to the kitchen sink... with the 1/2 in PEX... where as the 3/8s took less...

Just something to think about... as 3/8 in pex is not a standard store line... and you can order it .. but then all the fittings have to be 3/8 too... and again a non standard item... NO YOU CAN'T USE THE PB FITTINGS.. THE ARE TOO BIG... even for the 3/8 in lines...
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:07 AM   #14
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""<Other post made me think. Get a crimping tool from store and try to recrimp the copper ring in place. If it was under crimped that could be an easy fix. Then return the tool?>"......
really... that cheap... wow... if you had to take it to AS what do you think they would charge you... buy the tool... its cheaper... and be a AS owner..."

I did, I have 3 pex crimpers. 2 for stainless one for copper. But if you're going to make one odd ball crimp and never again.


"No if you hook it up with PEX tubing.. you don't have to use hose.. which will leak... go with the PEX directly to the city water fitting... 90 deg 1/2MPT to 1/2PEX... brass... and then go PEX to the regulator... no need for flexable hose... actually it would be worse... due to the ablility to flex... All the new ones are PEX only... no more stinking hoses that will leak and give you problems."
Actually shurflow specifically says in their installation instructions to use hose before pex. But AS ignores this. The pex actually transmits more force from vibration causing the city water inlet to leak where the two halves come together.

Kmvd can you post pics of your setup? What brand is the inlet? Photo of the back side fitting. Some have hose barbs built right in meant to connect to rubber hose first. Rubbber hose inner diameter is slightly larger than pex. Is the back just a barb or is it threaded.

Sounds like you already have the pex to poly worked out, down the road when you have time it's a good idea to replace all the gray PBX with PEX. It's a good project. Access is the hardest part.
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