|
08-03-2013, 12:17 AM
|
#1
|
2 Rivet Member
1966 26' Overlander
Frozen
, Tundra
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 85
|
Plumbers, Help ! PVC fittings with ABS pipes
I'm finally getting to the plumbing phase of my shell-off !! Went to install the tub and realized I need to get ready for drain/vent plumbing before I rivet it all back in. I did a bit of reading here on the PVC vs ABS debate, and after checking all 3 local big box stores I cannot find ABS anywhere, except in 1 1/2" only. Most the connecting elbows, wyes, and tees I need are not available in ABS and some portions of my plumbing are also 1 1/4" and 2" so no ABS there either.
While at the stores tonight I thought, what about using the readily available PVC fittings with the ABS straight pipe for the "give/flex" Most the plumbing is 1 1/2" so the majority of the straight sections would be ABS. I would of course use the glue that is compatible with both.
Any plumbers out there have any thoughts on the viability of a hybrid set up like this ? Best of both worlds (cost/availability/some flex) or just asking for leaks buried in my walls ? (different coefficients of expansion, hot drain water ruining PVC ) ?
Worst case scenario, I can try to finish work early next week and see if a local plumber can order what I need in ABS, but figure the cost will go up a bit as their time is worth something too.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 05:49 AM
|
#2
|
Rivet Master
1968 24' Tradewind
Oxford,
, Mississippi
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,564
|
If you have a local mobile home dealer or supply house they should have all the ABS fittings you need. I ran into the same situation here with the local ACE and big box stores when I was trying to find ABS pipe and fittings. I went to a local mobile home dealer who also has a repair service and they had everything I needed at a fair price.
__________________
__________________
Bruce & Rachel
__________________
68 Trade Wind
2001 Toyota Tundra
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 06:02 AM
|
#3
|
Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Portsmouth
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 776
|
Go with PVC and where you need to tie into existing ABS, use one of the rubber transitions with hose clamps on either end.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 06:22 AM
|
#4
|
Rivet Master
1959 26' Overlander
Western
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,468
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquinob
...the rubber transitions with hose clamps on either end.
|
They're called Fernco Couplings.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 06:29 AM
|
#5
|
2 Rivet Member
1993 32' Excella
Jacksonville
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 72
|
I just got done re-plumbing the drainage on me 68 AS project mostly with PVC. I located ABS at a mobile home supply, but the cost was substantially more, and it is not that much lighter for weight savings. I went with pvc on the interior, you can use the rubber couplers, but they also sell transition glue at most stores(abs to pvc- it's green). A tip: Buy WAY more fittings than you think you need, I'm glad I went with pvc, because 3-4 times I needed a certain fitting and was stopped dead, had to go back to the store, and the MH (ABS) store would have been much further away.
I am going to go with ABS on the exterior for factory looks.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 06:32 AM
|
#6
|
2 Rivet Member
1993 32' Excella
Jacksonville
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 72
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvoldstuff
I just got done re-plumbing the drainage on me 68 AS project mostly with PVC. I located ABS at a mobile home supply, but the cost was substantially more, and it is not that much lighter for weight savings. I went with pvc on the interior, you can use the rubber couplers, but they also sell transition glue at most stores(abs to pvc- it's green). A tip: Buy WAY more fittings than you think you need, I'm glad I went with pvc, because 3-4 times I needed a certain fitting and was stopped dead, had to go back to the store, and the MH (ABS) store would have been much further away.
I am going to go with ABS on the exterior for factory looks.
|
Forgot to say: save your reciept, the bigger stores will take back the unused fittings.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 08:20 AM
|
#7
|
Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
|
It is funny, in Idaho the big box stores only cary the black stuff, and those in Montana the white stuff. There must be some state code restrictions is all I can figure. I live about half way between the white stuff stores and he black stuff stores, and have to remember which way to go when I need fittings.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 08:25 AM
|
#8
|
2 Rivet Member
1999 25' Safari
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 78
|
May I chime in?
IMHO, as stated elsewhere, I believe ABS marginally better than PVC for the robust solvent-weld aspects of the fittings. However, PVC will likely be as durable if solvent-welded correctly and with care.
A downside to ABS is that the pipe usually develops a bowed "set"; care should be taken to orient the bow sideways rather than humping or "bellying". PVC pipe is straighter.
I'd suggest staying away from ABS-PVC transition cement for a mobile application. Likewise, if you choose to use mechanical joiners -- be they Fernco, Cantex, or even No-Hub couplings (bandaids, in the vernacular), as they are going to be subjected to vibration and the bumps and grinds of 'streaming, be prepared to make those connections a part of your regular inspections to ensure they don't become compromised. Liberal applications of baling wire, duct tape, and used chewing gum may help.
Side note: I believe most plumbing parts wholesalers will still have the requisite ABS fittings. Sometimes they get grumpy when Joe Blow off the street walks in. Don't show up very-first-thing, and it may help to bring doughnuts ....
wryawry
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 04:37 PM
|
#9
|
2 Rivet Member
1966 26' Overlander
Frozen
, Tundra
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 85
|
Well since I have zero plumbing of any sort in or under the AS right now I don't have to use fernco or rubber to connect to any existing pipe Currently I could build a system where most 1.5" is black but any other size would have to be white, almost the opposite of Aquinobs pic. Sounds like the transition cement and primer will not be ideal connection ?
While a great idea, I fear a rubber joint between every pvc elbow and abs straight would drive cost up 2-3x ! , I will see how the ABS search goes next week, I have a feeling my choice is not a "choice" unless I find ABS in multiple sizes !
Anyone have experience with PVC shattering due to cold or road flex ?
Anyone experience ABS sag between joints making drainage an issue ?
Anyone experience bad solvent welds from ABS to PVC ?
Obviously I'm still on the fence, wait don't they make fences from PVC now too !?
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 06:46 PM
|
#10
|
Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 26
Morrill
, Nebraska
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,014
|
I don't see a problem using PVC for DWV. Since it is a non pressurized system.
PVC is used on all sorts of domestic fresh water systems, with pump pressures in excess of 50psi. Much of it is schedule 40, some schedule 80.
The water supply line to my home is PVC with glued joints. It runs 50psi.
Never had a problem.
I would not hesitate to us PVC in a travel trailer. Especially in the DWV system.
|
|
|
08-03-2013, 10:17 PM
|
#11
|
Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alumascoupe
Anyone have experience with PVC shattering due to cold or road flex ?
|
I've had problems with it shattering in stationary applications due to age, cold, and UV exposure.
Quote:
Anyone experience ABS sag between joints making drainage an issue ?
|
Not in the distances typical in an RV.
Quote:
Anyone experience bad solvent welds from ABS to PVC ?
Obviously I'm still on the fence, wait don't they make fences from PVC now too !?
|
I stick with one system to the extent I can and prefer ABS for both my stick house and RV projects. Around here the codes allow both. ABS doesn't require primer and I've had fewer problems with bad solvent welded joints.
Amazon.com, Tweety's, Grainger, VintageTrailerSupply.com, and Dyer's all sell ABS fittings and pipe via mail order.
__________________
To learn to see below the surface, you must adjust your altitude
|
|
|
08-04-2013, 12:32 PM
|
#12
|
1 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB International
Payson
, Utah
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18
|
using pvc for waste lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alumascoupe
I'm finally getting to the plumbing phase of my shell-off !! Went to install the tub and realized I need to get ready for drain/vent plumbing before I rivet it all back in. I did a bit of reading here on the PVC vs ABS debate, and after checking all 3 local big box stores I cannot find ABS anywhere, except in 1 1/2" only. Most the connecting elbows, wyes, and tees I need are not available in ABS and some portions of my plumbing are also 1 1/4" and 2" so no ABS there either.
While at the stores tonight I thought, what about using the readily available PVC fittings with the ABS straight pipe for the "give/flex" Most the plumbing is 1 1/2" so the majority of the straight sections would be ABS. I would of course use the glue that is compatible with both.
Any plumbers out there have any thoughts on the viability of a hybrid set up like this ? Best of both worlds (cost/availability/some flex) or just asking for leaks buried in my walls ? (different coefficients of expansion, hot drain water ruining PVC ) ?
Worst case scenario, I can try to finish work early next week and see if a local plumber can order what I need in ABS, but figure the cost will go up a bit as their time is worth something too.
|
It is just fine to use pvc in place of abs, well I don't know code in your area but probably OK It will work just as well, abs is less expensive is the main purpose for using ags.
|
|
|
08-04-2013, 12:33 PM
|
#13
|
1 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB International
Payson
, Utah
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18
|
It is just fine to use pvc in place of abs, well I don't know code in your area but probably OK It will work just as well, abs is less expensive is the main purpose for using abs.
|
|
|
08-20-2013, 02:00 AM
|
#14
|
2 Rivet Member
1966 26' Overlander
Frozen
, Tundra
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 85
|
Just to update... I finally found ABS locally !! Box store sent me to big commercial plumber, who sent me to big residential plumber, who sent me to small residential plumber, who didn't sound willing to drive back to shop to deal with "just a few fittings" (23 to be exact) so he referred me to a small hardware store in town, they had everything but one reducer, which I will use a rubber coupler reducer for thanks to Aquinobs advice ! Thanks for the input everyone ! Turns out ABS can be a real hunt depending where you are.
|
|
|
08-21-2013, 06:58 PM
|
#15
|
1 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB International
Payson
, Utah
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alumascoupe
I'm finally getting to the plumbing phase of my shell-off !! Went to install the tub and realized I need to get ready for drain/vent plumbing before I rivet it all back in. I did a bit of reading here on the PVC vs ABS debate, and after checking all 3 local big box stores I cannot find ABS anywhere, except in 1 1/2" only. Most the connecting elbows, wyes, and tees I need are not available in ABS and some portions of my plumbing are also 1 1/4" and 2" so no ABS there either.
While at the stores tonight I thought, what about using the readily available PVC fittings with the ABS straight pipe for the "give/flex" Most the plumbing is 1 1/2" so the majority of the straight sections would be ABS. I would of course use the glue that is compatible with both.
Any plumbers out there have any thoughts on the viability of a hybrid set up like this ? Best of both worlds (cost/availability/some flex) or just asking for leaks buried in my walls ? (different coefficients of expansion, hot drain water ruining PVC ) ?
Worst case scenario, I can try to finish work early next week and see if a local plumber can order what I need in ABS, but figure the cost will go up a bit as their time is worth something too.
|
I would go to a plumbing supply place like Standard Pluming there are others just as good but they should have ABS in 1 1/2 as well as 1 1/4 it has been years since I tried to purchase any, but you can run PVC it is just a little more expensive, and as I have never used the tow types of plastic together I can't say whether they will adhere, but my guess is that they will. I was actually a pipe fitter not a plumber, although I have worked with plumbers on projects many times.
|
|
|
08-21-2013, 06:59 PM
|
#16
|
1 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB International
Payson
, Utah
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18
|
would go to a plumbing supply place like Standard Pluming there are others just as good but they should have ABS in 1 1/2 as well as 1 1/4 it has been years since I tried to purchase any, but you can run PVC it is just a little more expensive, and as I have never used the tow types of plastic together I can't say whether they will adhere, but my guess is that they will. I was actually a pipe fitter not a plumber, although I have worked with plumbers on projects many times.
|
|
|
08-21-2013, 08:25 PM
|
#17
|
Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,017
|
This a little off of plumbing on A.S. but good swim pool installers use pvc in inground pools, they have heat box can bend pvc to fit without els etc. winter cold does not effect pvc in frozen ground. My opinion I would not worry about cold with pvc. Bill
|
|
|
08-22-2013, 05:31 AM
|
#18
|
Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by featherbedder
This a little off of plumbing on A.S. but good swim pool installers use pvc in inground pools, they have heat box can bend pvc to fit without els etc. winter cold does not effect pvc in frozen ground. My opinion I would not worry about cold with pvc. Bill
|
Boring engineering stuff follows. Read at your own risk!
Plastic Pipe Institute (PPI) identifies the allowable temperature range for various types of plastic pipe in "non-pressure" applications. Because of the pressure regulator in your Airstream, the water pressure will be low enough for these values to be relatively accurate:
ABS 0°F to 180°F
Polyethelene -40°F to 180°F
PEX -30°F to 210°F
PVC 0°F to 150°F
CPVC 0°F to 210°F
Polybutylene 0°F to 210°F
PPI also notes that for high-temperature applications, all plastic pipe materials have to be supported at closer intervals, up to continuously supported (laid in a full-length trough) near the high end of the temperature range. So put your pipe supports closer together for your hot-water piping to keep it from sagging, and try to avoid using PVC for hot-water piping.
If you live in the Great White North™ your best bet is Polyethelene or PEX. Ditto if you plan to do winter camping at all. In more temperate climes where the temperature doesn't drop to negative digits, any plastic pipe material will work, though you may have to avoid moving your Airstream during the winter due to embrittlement of the plastic.
Note that, just because a particular plastic material may be good to sub-freezing temperatures, that does not apply to ice forming in the pipes! You still need to winterize, even with Polyethelene or PEX.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
|
|
|
08-25-2013, 04:48 PM
|
#19
|
1 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB International
Payson
, Utah
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18
|
Make sure you use cleaner on all of your abs joints before glueing, it is my experience that ABS only sags when it gets hot, may be a good thing to place supports if possible on long lengths.
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|