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05-22-2011, 07:23 PM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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No Shower Hot Water
We're taking our first shakedown trip in our 2008 International and discovered that the shower isn't getting hot water. The galley and bathroom hot water are fine. What should we be looking for? We opened up the wardrobe panels to look at the plumbing, and also under the exterior and didn't see anything conspicuous, but we're no plumbers.
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05-22-2011, 08:42 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
Lexington
, Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,985
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I would suspect a bad or clogged shower faucet. Unless you can find a shut off valve in the hot water line to the shower. I'm not sure if they install shut off valves or not in a 2008.
Can you post a picture of the faucet? Then we can probably help you open it up so you can see if there's any gunk in it.
Chris
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05-22-2011, 08:47 PM
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#3
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerriO
We're taking our first shakedown trip in our 2008 International and discovered that the shower isn't getting hot water. The galley and bathroom hot water are fine. What should we be looking for? We opened up the wardrobe panels to look at the plumbing, and also under the exterior and didn't see anything conspicuous, but we're no plumbers.
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Is the cross over valve closed? It is near the hot water heater.
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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05-22-2011, 09:09 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2006 25' Safari FB SE
Spokane
, Washington
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,848
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A Long Shot
The Moen valves in the shower control can be installed upside down. When this happens it will switch your hot and cold responses. If you turn it to cold you will get hot, if you turn it to hot you will get cold. This could be a long shot but you might want to give it a try.
If you open the shower valve in the cold position and the water is warm all you have to do is to rotate the valve 180 degrees. Other than that, I can't imagine a simple fix to your problem. If you have hot water at the other faucets I doubt your bypass valve is open.
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05-22-2011, 09:11 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
Currently Looking...
Denton
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 788
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Once you check the cross over valve, try taking the shower head off and see if you can get hot water with no head.
__________________
Dan Brown Denton NC
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05-22-2011, 09:47 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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No hot water in shower, only.
Hi, this is quite common. Mine did it and I replaced the Moen cartridge. This fixed it and it never happened again. I originally removed , disassembled, and cleaned the entire valve assembly and cartridge even though I never saw any dirt or broken parts in it, but it still wouldn't work. So as I said, I replaced it. I heard that Moen will send you another one for free, [warranty] but it was easier to just go to Home Depot and buy one.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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05-22-2011, 10:58 PM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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Thanks, all. Sounds like it could be an issue with the Moen — good to know just what to look for (or ask for if it's broken), so thanks RobertSunrus.
Just in case, I'm posting photos of both the faucet and the pipes around the hot water heater. Is one of these the crossover valve? The one where the red and white pipes intersect?
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05-23-2011, 06:04 AM
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#8
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More than one rivet loose
Currently Looking...
Los Alamos
, New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerriO
Thanks, all. Sounds like it could be an issue with the Moen — good to know just what to look for (or ask for if it's broken), so thanks RobertSunrus.
Just in case, I'm posting photos of both the faucet and the pipes around the hot water heater. Is one of these the crossover valve? The one where the red and white pipes intersect?
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Yes the vertical valve is the crossover valve. It is closed.
Hot and cold valves to the hot water heater are open.
Do you get normal function from other faucets?
__________________
Michelle TAC MT-0
Sarah, Snowball
Looking for a 1962 Flying Cloud
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05-23-2011, 02:34 PM
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#9
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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Yes, the other two faucets get both hot and cold. Should the crossover valve be closed or open? We tried turning it the other direction last night (opening it), and we still didn't get any hot water in the shower, so we turned it back to the way you see it in the photo.
Is the crossover valve supposed to be closed or open?
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05-23-2011, 02:57 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
2000 31' Land Yacht
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 497
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closed. it is only open when winterising. moen is quite quick about sending replacememt parts, so if you have a bit of time call moen and save the money.
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05-23-2011, 02:58 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2003 22' International CCD
Kiln
, Mississippi
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,779
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Your picture of the by-pass hot water heater valves show the correct valve settings to allow cold water to enter the water heater to be heated and sent on to the sink/shower in the camper. The valve handle shows which ones are open and which are closed - those with the handles parallel to the pipe are open and the one that is perpendicular to the pipe is closed. You turn the two on top and bottom to the off (perpendicular) position to drain the HW heater to winterize the trailer and the other one on to bleed the lines of water (by-pass valve).
My bet is the Moen valve need replacing - there is a ceramic disk that can crack very easily. Have time? get Moen to replace it free - need it now? Home Depot has them.
__________________
Michael & Tina with Layla and Preston BZ The family has grown. 2003 22' INTERNATIONAL CCD
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05-27-2011, 11:10 AM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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Thanks for all of the information. I'm glad I now understand how the water heater plumbing works, even though I doubt it's the problem. We went ahead and bought a new cartridge so we could install and test before we put it back int storage. But the old cartridge is stuck in there really tightly, and we didn't have enough supplies to get it out. The little plastic little plastic piece that allows you to twist the old cartridge (that comes with the replacement) broke. The plastic tab on the original cartridge broke when we tried to pry a little. We'll be going back and spraying in some limeaway (internet suggested vinegar, but I think this needs something even more heavy duty), and let that work on it for a while and hopefully loosen things up. We're trying to avoid pulling out the inner core while the outer shell is still stuck in there, which, according to all of the hits on the internet, seems to happen a lot. You guys made this sound so easy!
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05-27-2011, 11:46 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Did you remove the horse shoe clip?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerriO
Thanks for all of the information. I'm glad I now understand how the water heater plumbing works, even though I doubt it's the problem. We went ahead and bought a new cartridge so we could install and test before we put it back int storage. But the old cartridge is stuck in there really tightly, and we didn't have enough supplies to get it out. The little plastic little plastic piece that allows you to twist the old cartridge (that comes with the replacement) broke. The plastic tab on the original cartridge broke when we tried to pry a little. We'll be going back and spraying in some limeaway (internet suggested vinegar, but I think this needs something even more heavy duty), and let that work on it for a while and hopefully loosen things up. We're trying to avoid pulling out the inner core while the outer shell is still stuck in there, which, according to all of the hits on the internet, seems to happen a lot. You guys made this sound so easy!
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Hi, did you remove the horse shoe clip? It won't come out with out removing this clip first. [cartridge] Mine is in the wall area and I have to remove the entire valve assembly to remove the horse shoe clip on mine. Others stated that they can remove this clip with the valve in place.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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05-27-2011, 01:56 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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Yes, we did do that. It was pretty much even with the wall area — too far in to remove with pliers, but we were able to get a flat screwdriver in there to loosen it, and then remove it with our fingers. It seems to be stuck because of grimy buildup —*which looks like it happens a lot to these.
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05-27-2011, 05:48 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerriO
Yes, we did do that. It was pretty much even with the wall area — too far in to remove with pliers, but we were able to get a flat screwdriver in there to loosen it, and then remove it with our fingers. It seems to be stuck because of grimy buildup —*which looks like it happens a lot to these.
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Hi, mine was in tight too and I had never done one of these before. After I bought the replacement, I saw the tool for turning it to help removal. So I originally had the valve assembly completely removed from my trailer, put vise grips on the shaft end, and tapped the vise grips outward with a small hammer. I'm sure the next time I do it, if ever, it will come out a lot easier.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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05-29-2011, 04:48 PM
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#16
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3 Rivet Member
2008 27' International CCD FB
Bay Area
, California
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 159
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After several days and an unexpected amount of manual labor, we have hot water again! It was, indeed, a bad cartidge. After snapping both the plastic removal tool in our attempts to work it loose, in addition to the plastic tabs on the cartridge, we got a solid metal removal tool at Home Depot (made specifically for removing Moen cartidges). We sprayed the thing down with Kaboom! to try to get any deposits loose, then started in with using the tool (which is basically a screw on one end that screws into the brass extending part of the cartridge, with a handle that turns and shortens the tool to slowly pull the thing outward. That snapped off as well, inside the cartridge. But luckily, it has pulled the cartridge forward just enough (I'm talking a millimeter or two), that we could grab it again with pliers. After about another 45 minutes of wiggling and twisting, we finally worked the thing loose. We slathered the new one with plumbing grease, so hopefully if we ever need to replace it again, it will be much easier to remove.
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