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06-16-2015, 03:59 PM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Poulsbo
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7
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Help! (insert cursing) old copper pipe is 1/32nd inch bigger than standard PEX
My husband is tearing his hair out trying to fix 3 leaks under kitchen sink in 76 Sovereign, probably busted when pipes froze.
New fittings won't attach to the copper. It's too wide, just a hair. The cursing is getting intense.
He bought PEX to replace long piece under the mid section bed, but can't hook them up.
Any suggestions? He's got his metal grinder out but thought I'd ask before somebody hurts themselves
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06-16-2015, 04:03 PM
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#2
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
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, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Sounds like freeze related swelling. Remove affected copper and replace with pex. Sell the scrap copper and buy something fun for the trailer.
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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06-16-2015, 04:07 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,118
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If the new copper fittings will not fit the old copper pipe then, like Kevin, would think that the copper is stretched from freezing. I like PEX and would replace all the copper I could get to with it.
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06-17-2015, 12:07 AM
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#4
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1 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Poulsbo
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 7
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yes, I like it!
but how to connect the PEX to the expanded copper that he can't get to?
Our AS is not a gut rehab - we're hoping to keep interior (in good condition).
A plumber friend dropped off some hardware today; hoping it works!
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06-17-2015, 05:24 AM
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#5
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
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, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casbc
yes, I like it!
but how to connect the PEX to the expanded copper that he can't get to?
Our AS is not a gut rehab - we're hoping to keep interior (in good condition).
A plumber friend dropped off some hardware today; hoping it works!
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The water lines in our 1976 31' center bath Sovereign are accessible without removing interior components. Not all connections are easy to get too though. I am not sure about those with a rear bath layout that you have. Others with that layout may be able to offer some advice.
Hope things work out.
Kevin
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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06-17-2015, 06:21 AM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1966 22' Safari
Hilltop Lakes
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,767
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I was able to replace all the water lines in our '66 Safari with PEX without removing the interior, except for the easily-removable parts of the gauchos. It takes some crawling around and poking your head into places, but it can be done. It's almost always possible to push the PEX into the same hole the copper pipe came out of. Use a Dremel tool or the like to cut out the copper.
I used crimp fittings, so it took a lot of planning to get that last crimp located in a place where the crimping tool had room to work. The job is really mostly head scratchin'.
I don't regret a bit of it. The system has performed flawlessly for several years now.
For sure, draw a plan of your system before you tear out the copper. There will be a few places (ours was near the water pump) where you need to re-engineer a little. Copper will make a sharper corner than you can duplicate with PEX. Back to the head scratchin' part.
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06-17-2015, 07:51 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,971
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Shark Bite. I even keep some fittings extra for emergency repairs.
__________________
"If it can't be reduced, reused, repaired, rebuilt, refurbished, refinished, resold, recycled or composted
then it should be restricted, redesigned or removed from production."
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06-17-2015, 08:59 AM
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#8
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2 Rivet Member
1967 22' Safari
Currently Looking...
Monona
, Wisconsin
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 86
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Tubing/Pipe
Airstream uses copper TUBING not copper PIPE, they are two different sizes. That freezing/expansion thing is a old wives tail that will not die.
Greg Anderson
Wisconsin
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06-17-2015, 10:45 AM
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#9
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New Member
Currently Looking...
soddy daisy
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 4
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Tubing is measured od and pipe is measured id.
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06-17-2015, 10:47 AM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1967 30' Sovereign
Leavenworth
, Kansas
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 382
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Replace copper with pex and use shark bite fittings.
__________________
Beth and/or David
67 Sovereign, double bed, rear bath-"Moby"
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi, Quad Cab-"Ahab"
"Vintage trailer, vintage owners"
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06-17-2015, 10:49 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1984 31' Excella
Abernathy
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 865
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Shark bite fittings are the bombdiggity!
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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06-17-2015, 12:01 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
1969 31' Sovereign
Auburn
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 124
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Definitely stretched copper I just had to fix several broken pipes just keep cutting off pipe further down the line until the shark bite fitting fits.
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06-17-2015, 12:27 PM
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#13
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdanderson
Airstream uses copper TUBING not copper PIPE, they are two different sizes. That freezing/expansion thing is a old wives tail that will not die.
Greg Anderson
Wisconsin
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Call it an old wives tale if your wish but copper tubing will swell under freezing conditions and not split . I've seen it multiple times, and I've replaced tubing as a result.
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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06-17-2015, 01:36 PM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
2009 27' FB Classic
Sioux Falls
, South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 117
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Swagging tool
They do make a swaging tool to form the end of a copper tube round and to the proper diameter. Copper does come in a 1/2 diameter which approximately 1/2" ID but is is actually 5/8 OD. They also make 1/2" OD tubing which is actually 1/2" OD. You might find this tool at a commercial plumbing outlet like Graingers. Cost is about $25 for set of 4 sizes 1/4" - 5/8". All you need is a hammer to make them work. These tools allow you to make the tube round or shrink the tube 1 size or expand the tube 1 size. Good luck
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06-17-2015, 02:49 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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As others have said, the pipe has been frozen and expanded to the point that no conventional fittings will fit the stretched pipe.
Other than a total re plumb job, you can go back to the closest soldered original fitting and unsolder the pipe from the fitting. The fitting will not have expanded. Then you can solder a short stub of new copper into the fitting, and from there use either Sharkbite type fittings and PEX pipe, or conventional crimp fittings and PEX pipe.
There is no other reasonable way to repair it.
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06-17-2015, 06:14 PM
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#16
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Rivet Master
2016 30' Classic
Hinckley
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 907
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A flaring block will squish the tube back down to size.
Splits are easy to fix with a soldering iron. Just squeeze the tube back together sand, flux and solder.
Shark bite are easy but very expensive.
__________________
My budget won't stop me from buying something online that I don't need, but the threat of getting promotional
emails every day for the rest of my life just might!
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06-17-2015, 06:33 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,806
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It's called: Nylon Braided Hose (to size), two hose clamps on either end (real tight), leak fixed ;-)
I have trailers that were fixed that way over 10 years ago and still no leaks!
Enjoy,
__________________
Paul Waddell
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06-17-2015, 08:33 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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I was able to change out the copper for Pex in a 75 rear bath in about a day. I disassembled the top of the tub enclosure, the passenger side bed, and the bottom of the kitchen cabinet to get access. It wasn't too bad.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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06-17-2015, 10:38 PM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
2004 25' Safari
1999 27' Safari
1968 17' Caravel
Fountain Valley
, California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 111
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I'm in the same boat as casbc. We loaned out our '68 Airstream and the party we loaned it to didn't winterize it. Multiple ruptures, and with the stretched pipe I've been to every piping and tubing supply store I can find and none could come up with anything that would match the stretched diameters of the different pipe ruptures. I mic'd (micrometer) the diameters of the tubing, and it was stretched to some degree (and to all different degrees) everywhere I measured. I wanted to go the pex route, but without any matching diameters was pulling out both of my hairs too.
I will investigate the swagging tool referenced by gr.austin.
An Airstream dealer in Boise, ID did the initial repairs but did a crummy job with clear plastic tubing that ruptured almost right away. I checked with my local Airstream repair dealer and they confirmed that the copper tubing expands even in areas that didn't fail when the pipes freeze up.
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06-17-2015, 10:44 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
2004 25' Safari
1999 27' Safari
1968 17' Caravel
Fountain Valley
, California
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 111
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Also to rideair, the patch where the Airstream dealer had diameters that allowed the use of nylon braided hose, the hose did hold up, but where they couldn't get a close enough diameter match they used clear plastic tubing and that failed almost right away.
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