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Old 07-26-2015, 10:18 AM   #15
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Progress Update

I worked some on the project yesterday, completing the grey and black tank sensor installation. I finished running new wires from the Display Panel to all three tanks. I soldered all connections and used heat shrink tubing to insulate. The Display Panel is now wired and powered on inside the trailer.

The sensors adhere directly to the outside of the tanks. The installation manual makes a point of cleaning the area well with alcohol. The manual says to avoid placement within 1" of any ferrous metal across the face of the sensor. A service bulletin included in the package says 2". The grey tank has a spot that easily meets that criteria, I was able to find a spot for the black tank where a thin piece of steel crosses the face, about 1" away. Everywhere else was inaccessible or the galvanized pan was too close. Applying the sensors was a little stressful. The adhesive is really sticky and once it touches the tank it's on for good. Making that tougher is the general difficult access. Both tanks now read zero percent (they are dead empty). So far so good!

Today I'm going to work to finish the fresh tank. For this I plan to fill the tank first then run the pump until it starts to suck air. Then temporarily tape the sensor until it reads zero percent on the Display Panel. I'll mark the spot with a sharpie then attach it permanently.

Here's a short video of the black & grey area below.

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Old 07-26-2015, 10:51 AM   #16
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If you are having issues finding a location for the sensor that is away from a metallic member, call the tech line. I had a question, called them and they were very approachable. Even though it wasn't relevant to my situation, they offered that there was a certain material that could be placed between the sensor and the metal to resolve the clearance problem.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:59 AM   #17
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So I noticed that the grey water indication on the SeeLevel in my 2015 Classic seemed to be indicating higher than what I thought was in the tank.

Yesterday i took out the garden hose and attached my water flow meter and started filling the grey tank from the kitchen sink. Grey tank empty. I noted the readings as they changed on the SeeLevel and jotted down the gals off of the meter. Chart looks like this.

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So accurate to 25% and then starts to get increasingly inaccurate. Tank is 37 gals and at 37 gal mark the sink stopped taking water.

This is a factory install. According to the manual there is no direct calibration of the water tanks, only the LPG tanks (Classic has senders on the LPG tanks).

Thoughts/suggestions? I'll call SeeLevel tomorrow. Also plan to check the sensor following the outline in the trouble shooting section later today.

Would be nice to have it indicating 100% at about the 35 gal mark.
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Old 07-26-2015, 11:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Thoughts/suggestions?
I'm thinking during install the sensor was stuck on the side of the grey tank without regard for where the actual waterline was. The only reason I can think the delta continues to increase would be because the sensor is not calibrated for your tank capacity.
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Old 07-26-2015, 12:24 PM   #19
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It will be interesting to see how kscherzi's readings display when filling the tanks.

Gary, have you done this test with the Fresh and Black tanks?

Kelvin
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
I worked some on the project yesterday, completing the grey and black tank sensor installation. I finished running new wires from the Display Panel to all three tanks. I soldered all connections and used heat shrink tubing to insulate. The Display Panel is now wired and powered on inside the trailer.

The sensors adhere directly to the outside of the tanks. The installation manual makes a point of cleaning the area well with alcohol. The manual says to avoid placement within 1" of any ferrous metal across the face of the sensor. A service bulletin included in the package says 2". The grey tank has a spot that easily meets that criteria, I was able to find a spot for the black tank where a thin piece of steel crosses the face, about 1" away. Everywhere else was inaccessible or the galvanized pan was too close. Applying the sensors was a little stressful. The adhesive is really sticky and once it touches the tank it's on for good. Making that tougher is the general difficult access. Both tanks now read zero percent (they are dead empty). So far so good!

Today I'm going to work to finish the fresh tank. For this I plan to fill the tank first then run the pump until it starts to suck air. Then temporarily tape the sensor until it reads zero percent on the Display Panel. I'll mark the spot with a sharpie then attach it permanently.
So you ran both the gray and black sensor wires up through the subfloor. Where did the hole in the subfloor end up, somewhere under the fridge?

How did you fish new wire up to the monitor panel through the walls? Did you attach the new wire to the Micropulse wire and then pull it through the wall. I would think AS runs the wires through small holes in the ribs, hopefully there are grommets in the holes. I wonder if the insulation is added after the wiring.

I looked up to see what gauge telephone wire is and its only 24g normally so now I see the reason to run new cable.

I looked up the specs on the current line of Aquajet and Shuflo pumps. Shurflo is rated at max amps of 7.5 and Aquajet slightly lower.

It looks like when you dropped the galvanized pan the black water tank stayed supported from above. Is dropping the tank putting any stress on the plumbing fittings?

Thanks for sharing your information.

Kelvin
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:47 PM   #21
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I finished installing the Display Panel. Because the hole in the aluminum interior skin was just ever so slightly larger than the SeeLevel Display Unit I needed to make an adapter panel. I used 3/16 clear acrylic sheet cut with my table saw. Used a Dremel to cut the interior part out and spray painted it flat black (photo attached). I think its a good match.

To test the job I placed the garden hose into the shower on full blast. The SeeLevel incremented upward in 5% increments. At 100% I stopped adding water then slowly added more water until it pooled in the shower pan. Probably added 3 or 4 gallons after 100% before pooling in the shower. I'd say that's about perfect! My old MicroPulse would still be reading 3/8 full.

I filled the black to where I guessed about a third. Didn't want the hose to touch the toiled so just stood there pressing on the flush lever. After a while I got bored and guessed it to be 1/4 to 1/2 full. SeeLevel said 30%. Awesome. I'm very happy. The old MicroPulse never got above 1/8 full.

Unfortunately I ran into some very bad news. As I was beginning to stick on the fresh water sensor I felt some moisture where it didn't belong. After some investigation I discovered the tank has a crack where the pipe to pump enters. Due to the accumulated dirt and minerals around the area its clear the crack has existed for some time. Warranty ran out 2 months ago. As the crack and associated pipes are normally hidden I guess its a blessing to have found out now before more damage occurs. Anyway, I didn't stick on the fresh sensor in case the crack solution is to replace the fresh water tank.

All in all I'm very pleased so far with the SeeLevel setup. Due to the difficult nature of getting to the tanks and fishing wire everywhere it was not a quick nor easy project. It is doable though.

Things still to go: The SeeLevel manual says to only run 7.5 amps of current to through its switch or heat generated will damage the adjacent electronics. To account for this I did run a dedicated wire from the main panel with a 7.5 amp fuse. Since my pump is rated at 9 amps max I assume at some point it will rev to max speed and blow the fuse. To deal with that I fished another wire from the main panel the pump area. I also bought a relay. Another day I'll wire in the relay, this will allow up to a 15 amp pump if needed.
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:57 PM   #22
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FYI the Micropulse unit used to carry a 5 year warranty from the manufacturer. I replaced mine at 4 years due to a burnt out LED. I contacted the manufacturer directly and they sent me a new one. No need to return the defective one.

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Old 07-26-2015, 07:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
So you ran both the gray and black sensor wires up through the subfloor. Where did the hole in the subfloor end up, somewhere under the fridge?

How did you fish new wire up to the monitor panel through the walls? Did you attach the new wire to the Micropulse wire and then pull it through the wall. I would think AS runs the wires through small holes in the ribs, hopefully there are grommets in the holes. I wonder if the insulation is added after the wiring.

It looks like when you dropped the galvanized pan the black water tank stayed supported from above. Is dropping the tank putting any stress on the plumbing fittings?
On my model trailer the Display Panel is on curbside. The ideal locations for the sensors is street side (deepest parts of the tanks). I ran the new wires through the empty space in the wall using a fish tape. I was able to get them under the counter-top where I encountered a horizontal rib so then ultimately had to drill a hole and bring them out behind some drawers. My trailer has a under floor chase between the heater and water pump area. Once I got the wires to the water pump area it was easy to follow the pipes into the fresh water tank area and the other direction into the grey/black area.

I ignored the MicroPulse telephone wires and did not used them to pull wires or anything.

Yes - dropping the pan does put some stress on the plumbing fittings. I ended up supporting the pan with some buckets and wood after it dropped a few inches. To drop the pan all the way would be a bigger project and may damage the tanks and other fittings as the tanks are not supported with straps or anything but the big galvanized pan.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:01 PM   #24
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I wonder if you could use some type of epoxy to repair the fitting, such as JB Weld.

I suppose the wires from the Micropulse panel are part of a loom so you couldn't use them to pull wires through the kitchen curbside wall. When fishing through the wall do you just run the fish tape against the interior wall until you hit a rib? The wall insulation didn't get in the way?. How many wires do you have to get up to the motor panel area.

My monitor panel is in the kitchen area (25fb) too. I'm guess the under floor chase is between the hall closet and panty in my floor plan..

To gain access to the wires on the kitchen side all you needed to do is remove the kitchen counter drawers? You just put the fish tape down from the monitor panel opening. I guess you have to cut a large hole in the interior wall behind the drawers, then run the wires to the underfloor chase?

All this sounds like a difficult process just to get the wires from the panel. Getting the sensor on I though was going to be the most difficult part.

The bezel you made is a great idea.

Again thanks for contributing.

Kelvin
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:39 PM   #25
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Kelvin I only did it with the fresh water tank. I need to try it at some point when I am someplace where I have full hookups and can dump after the test.
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ghaynes755 View Post
So I noticed that the grey water indication on the SeeLevel in my 2015 Classic seemed to be indicating higher than what I thought was in the tank.

Yesterday i took out the garden hose and attached my water flow meter and started filling the grey tank from the kitchen sink. Grey tank empty. I noted the readings as they changed on the SeeLevel and jotted down the gals off of the meter. Chart looks like this.

So accurate to 25% and then starts to get increasingly inaccurate. Tank is 37 gals and at 37 gal mark the sink stopped taking water.

This is a factory install. According to the manual there is no direct calibration of the water tanks, only the LPG tanks (Classic has senders on the LPG tanks).

Thoughts/suggestions? I'll call SeeLevel tomorrow. Also plan to check the sensor following the outline in the trouble shooting section later today.

Would be nice to have it indicating 100% at about the 35 gal mark.
Since you are still under warranty take it back. It ought to be much more accurate. I bet someone botched the install of the grey sensor. These are measuring strips that measure within their lengths. It needs to be between 1/4" and 3/4" from top and same from bottom. Seems like they set it too low. I made sure to position both black and grey senders nearer to the top, since full is more critical for those tanks.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:04 PM   #27
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I wonder if you could use some type of epoxy to repair the fitting, such as JB Weld.

I suppose the wires from the Micropulse panel are part of a loom so you couldn't use them to pull wires through the kitchen curbside wall. When fishing through the wall do you just run the fish tape against the interior wall until you hit a rib? The wall insulation didn't get in the way?. How many wires do you have to get up to the motor panel area.

My monitor panel is in the kitchen area (25fb) too. I'm guess the under floor chase is between the hall closet and panty in my floor plan..

To gain access to the wires on the kitchen side all you needed to do is remove the kitchen counter drawers? You just put the fish tape down from the monitor panel opening. I guess you have to cut a large hole in the interior wall behind the drawers, then run the wires to the underfloor chase?

All this sounds like a difficult process just to get the wires from the panel. Getting the sensor on I though was going to be the most difficult part.

The bezel you made is a great idea.

Again thanks for contributing.

Kelvin
I recall the 25FB is nearly identical to the 27FB. Directly below the Micropulse Display Panel is a 120 volt outlet and below that are light switches. Below all that and just under the countertop is a horizontal rib. Pull out the drawers that are below that and looking under the counter you should see a line of rivets. That's the horizontal rib. I drilled a 1/2" hole just above that and used a coat hanger wire to fish up. It was actually pretty easy. To finish everything I gathered the wires together with some split tubing. Specifically shoving it through the drilled hole in the aluminum and securing with silicon sealant to protect from abrasion as the trailer is towed.

Run three wires up from there. A 18 gauge or higher blue and black wire and a 14 gauge red for a new pump run. The red wires goes to a empty fuse spot on the power center (7.5 amp fuse). The other two wires connect to all the SeeLevel sender's.

Under the coat closet is the water pump. On the other side is the hot water heater. Connecting both areas is a under floor chase. Various wires are routed there. This is an excellent route for the blue and black wires. Since the water pump is connected to the fresh tank just follow that path. I ended up drilling a 1/2" hole just to the side of the hot air inlet to the gray/black that supposedly keeps that area from freezing.

Regardless. It's a puzzle with many solutions.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:43 AM   #28
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Is there some reason you all aren't using 2 conductors in the existing telephone wires? They are already there and mine works perfectly with them.

Also, the consistency and accuracy of the systems depends entirely upon your choice of location of the sender, the length of the sender relative to your location, and the shape of the tank (particularly the slope of the bottom).
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