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Old 01-22-2016, 12:37 PM   #1
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
67 GT and so it begins

I just started tearing out the back end to get a shell-on started. Only the last few ft are in need of replacement. Previous owner might have put another tank in because it looks pretty wonky with 1x2's holding it up. I'm planning on 2 grey and 1 black tank.
anyone here with my vintage 20' GT put 3 tanks in? I think I'm going to have to pull the floor up to wheel wells in order to do this. Should know by next week. I have the kitchen out anyway to configure new. Also anyone placed stove on other side where furnace was?
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:58 PM   #2
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
Conifer , Colorado
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Hi KrisE from Minnesota. You must have a heated shop to work in. Grand Rapids is a lovely town. I've been there several times. After 25 years in Minnesota, we moved to Colorado. It's nice here too.

I replaced the rear bath subfloor on my 66 Trade Wind with the shell on. I also removed the belly pan, insulation, and inspected the frame. I installed new black water and gray water 26 gallon tanks, which required reconfiguring the whole bath area. It was a big project, lots of hours and dollars.

The original black tank in my 66 Trade Wind was indeed wonky. There was a galvanized steel cover to it that had rusted badly. The PO had strung some conduit across it side to side to hold it up. There is no way this black tank would function properly. The thing was only about 3" deep. See photo.

The 67s had a redesigned bathroom, much improved, so your tank may look completely different.

I might suggest Inca Plastics in California as a source for the tanks you want. Visit their website and download their huge catalog of tank shapes. I wanted a side discharge connection for my tanks like newer Airstreams have. I did not like getting on my hands and knees to connect to the drain port as originally designed on my 66. I thumbed through their catalog until I found a tank with the dimensions that would fit the frame bay I selected to install the tanks. My tanks hange below the 5" frame rails. I made a tank cover that extends below the frame. It all seems to work, but it isn't original. That doesn't bother me. There are lots of molded water tanks out there for RVs. The trick is to find one that suits your plans.

Folks participating in these Forums have designed and built all kinds of interior schemes for their vintage Airstreams. Rearranging the galley means possibly rebuilding the range hood vent. And the fridge needs a vent too. But it can be done, just more hours and dollars.

Good luck with your project and keep us posted on your progress and problem solving.

David
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:54 AM   #3
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
I have some more tearing out to do but it looks like I have an odd variation. There's an additional plate along the frame that gives me approx 7" at the back. I had my welder meet me and we think were going to put one black in back where toilet sits and run that out street side. 2 grey will be in the other bays up to wells. They will also feed street w black. Just in front of this extra iron on frame we can weld a plate the drain will feed through to give more protection.
measuring I get 57 3/4 across with back being 7" deep and 28 1/4" wide. Greys are 20 and 23 3/4 wide but 5" deep. The metal plate spanning the entire back is so roached its pretty much gone.
since I'm dumping street side I'm wondering if I should put solid plate or the perforatated . I tend to think keep original.
I'm just trying to figure out how many gallons grey I want to determine if I need to go below frame.

I totally lucked out with my shop. Cement and heat in huge equipped shop rented by a pipefitter/boilermaker with fabricating exp ? I have an angel on my shoulder.

thanks for the Inca suggestion. I'll be ordering at least one tank from there.

I envy you in co. I was a racer and ski patrol. Maybe some day I'll migrate.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:45 AM   #4
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
2 guys out in garage tearing everything out

I found a black tank that fits perfectly with 20 gal capacity from Inca. It's H4 on their site. I thought I'd put this here because the tank back there has a 1/2 circle cut-out where fresh water goes into toilet and shower. This way, someone with same restore can save all this business of looking on 3 different sites.

The guys are taking out floor for me to find a grey tank or two, depending on what we find under the floor. Tomorrow, one of the guys who knows frame work is going to get started on fixing anything needed. I'll be wire brushing and painting frame while we wait for tanks to get here.

I'm so dang lucky, this shop is huge and heated, off the garage is a room with internet access.

I'm going to go out the back of the trailer afterall. Just too much fiddling to dump street side. Drain access would dip another 3" under. Could pose a problem if I want to get somewhere all rutted out to boondock. There's an additional 2" angle iron on the back end so I can go 6" deep with the black tank. Gives me that nice 20 gallon black tank without configuring anything.

After reading boondocking posts, apparently it's pretty easy to get rid of grey and add fresh water, but a full black tank isn't.
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Old 01-27-2016, 09:19 PM   #5
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
Conifer , Colorado
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My son's 69 GT has a "wet bath" with a above the floor black tank. The drain for this tank is located under the trailer. The bayonet connector has broken off during his boondocking adventures. But when operational, it is too inconvenient for me to get on my hands and knees to connect and disconnect the slinky with two hands, especially in a muddy campsite, in the rain, in a puddle, in the dark, with mosquitoes all over me.

My 66 Trade Wind had this goofy hatch door in the bumper compartment that you had to open, and then thread the slinky through it. This trailer was designed in the days where campers dug "gopher holes" to drain the black tank. Open the hatch, then open the dump valve. My owners manual describes the process. We've come a long way since then. We are way ahead of the bears in terms of sanitation.

Many, many vintage Airstreams have rear waste water drains. Some have 3" piping turning 90 degrees, follow the bumper and then the dump valve along the street side. There would be a 3 1/2 hole on the rear most street side frame rail.

Maybe your trailer will have two dump discharge ports, one for black and one for gray. Or maybe the gray water will just run through the black tank. Many folks don't recommend this because if you loose water in a p-trap, say the kitchen sink, then you will have sewer gas smell in the trailer. I ignored this good advice and dump my bathroom sink water into my black tank to help utilize waste water capacity and help keep the black tank wet. Water sloshing around in the black tank is a good thing in my view. My shower and kitchen sink dump into the gray tank. Both black and gray tanks are vented of course.

Beautiful spring like day here in Colorado. January thaw? Although I still have two feet of snow in my back yard. I read there is lots and lots of snow in the high mountains. Good skiing year.

David
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:06 AM   #6
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
There's a 2" bar welded in the back under the frame on each side. This is to extend the black tank to 7". If I cut a hole at the base of that I'd also be cutting into that bar that is not flat, it's got a straight edge at the base like a sill.

Are these people cutting into the frame and sill piece? That would mean I'd go about 1" in the sill piece and another cut 2 1/2" into frame.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:12 PM   #7
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
Less than 12 hour turn time and VTS already shipped. They have some awesome elves out there. Zach was wonderful helping me figure out where to spin weld and order the correct parts. I tried over 2 hours to find someone locally, no luck.

It's just a shame never to see it again once it's in (hopefully)
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:31 PM   #8
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
Conifer , Colorado
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My 66 Trade Wind has skid angles welded to the rear most frame members. These angles help absorb forces when the rear of the trailer bottoms out. I think Airstream has done this for years. I remember stupidly leaving a fuel station with my looong 86 thirty four footer in tow. There was an incline down to the street level, but the street went up hill from there. I really drug the rear of the trailer hard going across that V. The skid angles work. Maybe this photo explains what I'm referring to.

A photo of your black tank drain and the "sill" would be helpful.

If I recall correctly, Inca Plastics invented the spin weld process back in the 60s. I worked in a roto mold factory for a few years. We did and do a lot of spin welding fittings to polyethylene tanks. That material is a thermoplastic. The spin weld fittings come with a flange and "drive dogs" molded right in. We chuck the fitting into our router, position the fitting over the hole we cut, and spin the fitting in the router while pressing down. The plastic gets hot and oozes out as it bonds to the tank. It make a very permanent welded joint. If you don't do it right, the joint will leak for sure.

I used Inca Plastics rubber grommets for my tanks. These allow more flexibility while plumbing the trailer drain lines. All you do is use a "hole saw" once the location of the pipe is determined. Then the rubber grommet presses into the hole, and the drain pipe fits into the grommet. This too is a great way to connect pipes to the tanks. See photo. What I did was run my drain lines to the floor locations I wanted, drilled my drain pipe clearance holes in the floor, the mounted the tanks, then marked the hole locations on the top of the tanks, then removed the tanks and drilled them. I installed the grommets, remounted the tanks, and pushed the drain pipes into the grommets. I did not have to fuss with a rather exact spin weld dimension.

There are lots of ways to plumb the drain and vent lines in an Airstream project. Just develop the plan that works for you and try to think of all the interactions in the plan. My black tanks sits between the frame rails so my toilet had to be positioned between the frame rails. My tanks hang below the frame rails so I needed to fabricate a tank cover for them. My shower pan had to be high enough so I could run the drain line under the pan to the gray tank. Every square foot of an Airstream is dedicated to some function. It all gets rather involved.

David
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:08 PM   #9
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
that first picture is how my frame looks. My tank is already out but it fed out the back like yours did through the trunk. The back frame railing is completely gone so my welder is fabricating a new one

I'm ordering the same tank airstream had inca fab for my trailer. He even has the tank named "old airstream tank" on his site. Inca is sending the same equip u have shown so your pics came at a perfect time!

i read on their site they invented spin welding. Very fun to watch on YouTube. everything that is coming out from the sides are spin welded inca says top mounts can be put in with grommet. That helps alot. I'm now on 12 hr shifts 1800-0600 til sunday so wont get much done through the weekend.

come Monday my handy helpers will take out the small rot at the door and finish taking floor out after placing up a couple 2x4's to stabilize the sides. Then its my turn to wire brush and por the frame.

This girl is going to be ready well before July 20th when I take her to a 4 day Moondance Rock festival in walker MN.
I'm typing on my phone so pardon bad grammar. I'm preying i have this part licked. I'm already fretting over putting in new wiring an that pretty Magnum Inverter. Omg what did i get myself into.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:18 PM   #10
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
that pic u have in post 5? I had no cross member there. Just the trunk. This is what my fab welder is going to tackle
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:25 PM   #11
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1986 34' Limited
1966 24' Tradewind
Conifer , Colorado
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Actually the top picture in post 8 clearly shows the rear angle iron that runs under the shell. It is true that this angle iron often rusts out. When it does, the rear of the shell is no longer supported, not good.

You are wise to replace it.

I'm glad Inca Plastics is serving you well. They've been in business a long time.

You will not like wire brushing and painting your frame. You will like it when it is done. Photos attached.

Walker festival is a worthy goal. I believe these old Airstreams go together much harder than they come apart. I've got over 1000 hours in mine and I did not do the extensive work you are doing. Many Airstreams use their trailers as "aluminum tents" while they are renovating them. Just an air mattress and a sleeping bag and you're all set. So be prepared for alternatives.

David
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:30 AM   #12
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
I have that end angel iron. I'm putting another piece basically like the joists in the back and treating it like a beefy trunk. At least that's the plan. I think its 18 gauge. I've looked through drawings and it looks like at the end base I'm missing one last beam. 1000 hours? sheesh thats like 2 cases of Shlitz to these guys

http://www.airforums.com/forums/imag...13324/1544.jpg

I know this is a 70s frame but thought it best since I'm rebuilding the trunk anyway
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Old 01-30-2016, 05:48 AM   #13
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1967 17' Caravel
Cadillac , Michigan
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When I was replacing crossmembers and outriggers Colin Hyde recommended using 11 gage (.119) steel.
Not sure this info is relevant for your angle iron piece.
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:50 PM   #14
67 Globetrotter
 
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1967 20' Globetrotter
1954 22' Flying Cloud
Grand Rapids , Minnesota
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 167
thank you so much dingo girl. Can you tell me what year your AS is and what was the last piece of metal spanning across? Seems some years had one piece of angle iron like a sill and others had an additional ladder cross member.
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