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Old 05-26-2010, 08:12 PM   #21
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4got 2 include this site earlier...

powerbook medic

it's another REALLY GOOD place to learn about the older machines, see DIY upgrades and repairs...

while the justification for trying a mac may be 2 write apps for phones/pods/pads...

the same machine will quickly FILL all the pc needs.

so screen size matters as do ports, graphics, processor/bus speed, wifi, broadband capability and so on...

4,1 machines are FULL function on osX10.6

and were the last models to include firewire 400 AND 800 AND usb AND express 34 slots, on BOTH 15s and 17s

(new 17s still have all these ports but are $$$$)

they also have quick swap external batteries and glossy OR matte finish screens.

new models have dropped some USEFUL ports and NON swappable batteries (although run time is UP x2) ...

and older models are much slower with 10.5 or 10.6
___________

but ALL the machines (even PREintel) have great parts replacements and DIY support.

and as with ALL 'purters the machine choice should be based on the applications and activities to be done..

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:28 PM   #22
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Thanks, 2Air, good info as always...
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:47 PM   #23
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APPLECARE!!!!! Don't buy a new machine without it.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:50 PM   #24
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..photo biz is heavily mac & I made the switch over 10 years ago and, like most, have no intention of ever switching back... you wont' regret it!..

..I have the First issue of MacWorld Magazine with a very young Steve Jobs on the cover and an interview with a child-like Bill Gates and already you can read between the lines where Mr. Gates had designs on the mac interface.."hmmm...I could call mine...DOORS...no that doesn't sound right....
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:24 PM   #25
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Stephanie,

If you are already a student, or can enroll prior to purchasing your Mac you may want to look at Apple's online store for students. You save I think save ~10%, and Apple just started their back to school promo yesterday or the day before, which gives you a free iPod (including the Touch). This may be a nice option if you don't already have an iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad. Then you can see what your work looks like first hand.

I have a 13" MB (White) at home, and I work on a 15" MBP. I personally like the form factor of the 13" better, but the MBP is better performance wise. The newer 13" MBP are really nice, although they're in the middle of a graphic card issue right now and only offer the older Core2Duo as a processor. I would probably opt for the 15" i7 if you can afford it. Ideally if I had my choice I would opt for a 13" MBP with the i5, but unfortunately it doesn't exist yet.

Don't upgrade the RAM or hard drive with Apple. They are way too expensive and replacing both these items is easy. You can buy more RAM and a larger and faster hard drive from somewhere like OWC or New Egg for a fraction of the cost.

Good luck,
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:24 AM   #26
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I've been using Macs for 20 years and they are very reliable and relatively simple to use. My 2000 Powerbook was going strong after 6 years when I decided I just had to have the 17" screen. Like Terry, I also have the last Powerbook and after 4 1/2 years it's still working fine. I bought a refurbished one from Apple at a 20% discount. Check the Apple website and look for refurbished ones—it's not easy to find the right page, but worth the discounts. Yes, they are expensive, but they last and last.

The newer ones, it appears, have batteries that cannot be replaced by the user and that is not something I'd want. I just replaced my battery and wouldn't want to have to send it back to Apple to have them replace it (I couldn't live without my computer), so I'll hold onto this one for a long time. This seems to be bad marketing to me, but Apple wants you to buy another one instead of buying a new battery.

Even with the battery issue (don't they do the same thing with their other products?), a Mac is a fine machine. Apple is now worth more than Microsoft (and at least as arrogant) and there's a good reason for that.

If you buy one, invest in a manual to explain how things work (paperwork with them is near worthless). NY Times columnist Pogue produces manuals for all of them.

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Old 05-27-2010, 05:38 AM   #27
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If you buy one, invest in a manual to explain how things work (paperwork with them is near worthless). NY Times columnist Pogue produces manuals for all of them.
Good thought, Gene. I'll certainly second Gene's recommendation on David Pogue's books, especially for someone new to Mac. They are titled "The Missing Manual" and are really easy to read and very well written. They even go as far as making comparisons to Windows for MS-converted users, like "if you did this task in Windows..., then this is how you now do that same task in OSX...". You can pick them up on Amazon for <$20 if I remember correctly, and they are like 800+ pages of great reference material. I would pick one up for 10.6 (Snow Leopard).

-Eric
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:39 AM   #28
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This is a very timely thread. Today, for the first time in history, Apples market cap has surpassed the old king of the hill, Miccrosoft! Wow, who would have thunk.
Jaime (mac fanboy)
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:49 AM   #29
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Don't upgrade the RAM or hard drive with Apple. They are way too expensive and replacing both these items is easy. You can buy more RAM and a larger and faster hard drive from somewhere like OWC or New Egg for a fraction of the cost.

Good luck,
Eric
Apple says this will void the warranty of their computers. That's another reason I suggested a shop that is an authorized reseller, they'll do that work for less, and without voiding the warranty.
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:59 AM   #30
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PowerBook for 3 years, then Macbook Pro - loved 'em both - both purchased from Apple refurb'd - saved a lot of $ and had NO problems - BOTH of mine were eventually stolen - one from my hotel room and one from my house! Macs hold their value and catch a high price on the street, so be sure to get some type of security...
BTW, I didn't see anybody mention the Macbook Air - any thoughts on these, since I'm in the market for a new Mac?
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:15 AM   #31
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We are on our second Mac in 8 years, couldn't be happier, and they are the only thing my computer-genius-programmer-software-writer-ITS manager son recommends. We have a MacBook Pro, have only bought new but he has only bought refurbished and has been very happy with them.

Good luck,

Maggie
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:19 AM   #32
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PowerBook for 3 years, then Macbook Pro - loved 'em both - both purchased from Apple refurb'd - saved a lot of $ and had NO problems - BOTH of mine were eventually stolen - one from my hotel room and one from my house! Macs hold their value and catch a high price on the street, so be sure to get some type of security...
BTW, I didn't see anybody mention the Macbook Air - any thoughts on these, since I'm in the market for a new Mac?
Macbook Pro 17" for for 2 years will never go back. We are looking at a Macbook Air for the ease of carry around the house and on the road.

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Old 05-27-2010, 06:31 AM   #33
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You will happy to know under the Apple interface is a Unix machine! Yes you can get a shell prompt and go command line like in the good ole days! You can even run X Windows apps.

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Old 05-27-2010, 01:19 PM   #34
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You will happy to know under the Apple interface is a Unix machine! Yes you can get a shell prompt and go command line like in the good ole days! You can even run X Windows apps.

Damon
I'm not that hardcore! Though I might try it just for fun

I have to say apple's attitude about not wanting people to do simple upgrades to their own machines has always been a problem for me. I tend to keep my machines a long time, and upgrade them as necessary. I have changed the not-user-serviceable battery on my old iPod 4 times! In fact I would probably have an iPod touch by now except I'm as cheap as a Scotsman, and I enjoy the challenge of keeping the old Pod running! The machine I'm using right now is a 8 year old Dell with all new harddrive, RAM, and processor, and I even replaced the screen on it a couple years ago. I hate to throw anything away...

I'm seeing some prices on refurb units on the apple site that are as good as used prices on CL, so it seems like that would probably be a good way to go. So are refurb units also available through official apple resellers? I'm not familiar with their distribution model.

Wish I was a student, that sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:54 PM   #35
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...I have to say apple's attitude about not wanting people to do simple upgrades to their own machines has always been a problem for me...
this "no upgrade" reference is basically a MYTH as applied to newer macs.

for the sake of argument the warranty is 1 year.

swapping hard drives DIY does NOT void the factory warranty.

adding 3rd party ram does NOT void the factory warranty.

there isn't much else the owner can do INSIDE the case of a mbpro.

minis and imacs can be opened at tweaked, folks do these things ALL of the time.

ANY of the 3 sites recommended earlier will drive this point home CLEARLY.
_________

applecare is the extended/enhanced service/warranty and is typically 349$ for a mbpro.

it is a very nice extended coverage plan, one of the few worth buying on ANY gadget.

again owner changed parts like the ram or hard drive do NOT void applecare.
_________

my earlier reference to 'battery swapping' was related to machines that HAD a simple door/battery that was interchangeable without tools.

and one could carry 2-3 batteries to get more run time.

they've stopped making THOSE UNITS for a variety of reasons and that's a topic for endless jabber.

the newer macs HAVE that run time on just the internal battery now.

gene might LIKE is older powerPC based mac,

but the OS is macz real value and that machine won't run the newest OS or ANY of the newer applications...

they are fine for surfin' and basic stuff using OLDER applications.

but NOT for writing apps the original point of this thread.
_________

REFURBs areprimarily available from the APPLE factory stores or online.

some REsellers like microcenter, occasionally have returns or discontinued models for sale at discount.

typically THAT discount is only 2-400$

and the 'education' discount on NEW machines only, is typically 2-300$ (less than 10%, about the same as sales tax)...
_______________

you've not mentioned HOW MUCH u wanna spend that's really the deciding issue.

but i'm guessing ANY of the NEW gear is too much moola ??

500$ or less, good luck finding ANY intel based machine at that price EXCEPT the core duo (NOT core2 duo)...

600-1000$ will get u into the 4,1 models.

drives fail, screens fail, wifi cards fail, batteries HIT the cycle limit and so on...

parts cost money.

imo buying on CL is a total crap shoot, so inspect before paying and HOPE it's got applecare coverage

and that is NOT a stolen machine.

screens, motherboards, ram, drives, dvd spinners, wifi...basically ALL OF THE PARTS....

are available from 3rd party vendors and with great instructions for DIY...

but at THAT STAGE of machine age WARRANTY is clearly not an issue.
_____________

if ya want reallY CHEAP but new get a dell net book and frankenMAC it...

this is very easy to do now and one ends up with a fully functionally macOS for under 400$.

would i use one of those to write apps on? no of course not.

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:23 PM   #36
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We have owned a imac for 4 and a half years now and cant be happier. We have had zero issues or problems with it. In fact my toshiba laptop finally blew up and I replaces it with a mac book pro last night. For all that you are getting they are worth the money. In my opinion mac book pro is the way to go. Good luck.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:28 PM   #37
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_______________

you've not mentioned HOW MUCH u wanna spend that's really the deciding issue.

but i'm guessing ANY of the NEW gear is too much moola ??
I'm hoping to keep it around $1000 - and it looks like there is some new/refurb gear in that price range. But that seems like a fair amount to invest to get started.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:51 PM   #38
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there IS new stuff in the 1000$ laptop range.

but with SMALL screens for anything but the basics.

and if u have an lcd already, keyboard and mouse...

a NEW mac mini would be a great choice for less money.

not a laptop but HIGHLY mobile and can accept an assortment of nonapple peripherals...

the mini is a largely overlooked model but a great value.

lotz of options at the 800-1000$ zone.

cheers
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:24 PM   #39
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2air, I chatted with one of the employees at the Apple store in Rancho Cucamonga California, and he emphatically stateed opening the laptop would void the warranty. Whether he was "full of it" or not, I have to assume the people that work there know more than I do...

As for a laptop, this refurb one would probably be the minimum for what Steph wants to do:
Refurbished MacBook Pro 2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo


15.4-inch LED-backlit glossy widescreen display
4GB memory
250GB hard drive
8x SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:25 PM   #40
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I'm hoping to keep it around $1000 - and it looks like there is some new/refurb gear in that price range. But that seems like a fair amount to invest to get started.
But look at the potential ROI . If you wrote an iPad app that everyone downloaded at $.99, that could be a LOT of money. I just heard that the "experts" are revising sales to 8 million iPads this year alone.
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