Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-20-2012, 03:52 PM   #57
Rivet Master
 
Lothlorian's Avatar
 
1973 27' Overlander
Loganville , Georgia
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,733
I keep one of my airstreams 450 miles away in storage (I own the storage). We plan on driving and picking the airstream up and heading out from where it is kept. We will camp in that area. When we are finished we will put back in storage. The other one we will be used for around here.

Farmers are selling much of their corn to be converted to fuel, but all that does is keep driving the price of food higher. Anyway you look prices are on the rise. food, fuel, transportation or any thing make from oil or corn.

Brian
__________________

__________________
Brian & Adrienne
Lothlorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #58
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,295
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
50 years ago a gallon of regular cost 31. That would be $2.33 in today's money. Gas prices around the country vary wildly and the southern Rockies have some of the cheapest. It's been around $2.95 to $3.05 lately. That's an increase of 31% over 1962 using the $3.05 number.

Putting it another way, a $20 bill in 1962 would bring $150.10 today.

Gene
Determining dollar value, or the relative value of the dollar from one year to the next is the ultimate tweakable statistic.

It all depends on what indicator is used.

In 1908 the Model T was $850.

Using CPI method that's $21,000
GDP deflator it's $15,000
'Consumer Bundle' puts it at $44,000
'Unskilled Wage' puts it at $87,000
'Manufacturing Compensation' values it at $140,000
GDP per capita is $118,000

IMHO, it's all academic

I just use the good 'ol MISERY INDEX
__________________

__________________
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 04:54 PM   #59
4 Rivet Member
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1977 23' Safari
1986 34' Limited
Idaho Falls , Idaho
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 497
The cost of diesel will not affect our summer plans: Airstreams were built to be on the road and we do our best to keep them there as much as we have time for! Life is too short to let fuel costs keep us home. But we will definitely economise where we can: WalMart overnights, casseroles instead of meat, very little restaurant food: we all know how to do it!

Vivian
__________________
Richard and Vivian
Caliban The Wonder Dog: gone but not forgotten
Cerberus
Too many vintage A/Ss...
Landshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 05:14 PM   #60
LFM
3 Rivet Member
 
LFM's Avatar
 
2007 19' Safari SE
Laurel , Montana
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 141
Images: 1
Just got back from three months in New Zealand. Petrol was 2.13 to 2.16 a liter. At our exchange rate of about .80, it still works out to about 8 dollars a gallon. We weren't RVing, but put 12,000 km (7,500 miles) on our rental camry, which was about 1k a month. So I guess if you are going to travel, you aren't going to do it for the same costs as sitting in your home.
It was worth every cent.

Greg
__________________
LFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 06:20 PM   #61
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,569
Images: 1
It helps to be able to predict fuel costs.

I've taken my truck down to 16-cpm for fuel at current prices, solo, and am comfortable predicting towing at 26-cpm for level terrain (conservatively, this is actually a bit high). Or, that I am at 4-gls/100 miles solo, and 6.5-gls/100 miles towing.

Any TV can be improved for mechanical and rolling efficiency, and the TT ought to be worked over as well. Perfected hitch rigging is your friend as the number of steering corrections per 100-miles is significant analysis data. Trip planning -- for those long days between here & there -- will optimize fuel use, also.

All of this starts with records, and annual average mpg is the key number. One can break out mpg for different types of driving past that. Percentage increases to the average mpg pays cash money. A fuel log is a good start, but it needs to have the numbers collated as well.

If fuel is a limiting factor, then the TV-TT combination was not well-chosen. There are alternatives. Luckily, as an A/S is already aerodynamic -- and weight is far second to mpg concerns versus aero -- it is a "better" TV that could make a difference if fuel costs are feeling prohibitive.

One starts by coming up with a plan:

[1] How long will it be kept? (calendar years)
[2] How many miles will it travel in that time? (calendar year average)
[3] What is the total ownership/operating cost per mile given all line items entered on a spreadsheet?

Search for and download AAA: Your Driving Costs -- 2011 Spreadsheet from .pdf file at linked page bottom.

There is also information at the EDMUNDS site on True Cost of Ownership.

The fixed costs on both vehicles (finance charges, depreciation, maintenance, repairs, taxes, insurance, etc) are all higher than fuel cost for fairly new vehicles. If the cost of fuel is the make-or-break consideration then another approach should be considered as a careful analysis was not done previously.

If my overall cost is 45-cpm and I have lower mpg than you, I am still well ahead if our miles/years of ownerhip are the same but your cost is 87-cpm. Zlee has her cute little combined rig, but my rig is far more "economical" than is hers (even over an extended period) although far larger and heavier. But the way she started has been dead-on correct for low cost. By the same token, BartS probably has me trumped in some ways. We have to separate out the fulltimer from the part-timer or occasional traveller for numbers to make sense. Just comparing TV's is not enlightening in a number of instances.

I went into more detail on a Dodge Cummins-specific forum about this in this post.

Granted, for someone for whom some camping is a sometime thing then the new -- and permanent -- cost of fuel changes the old equation. A pair of finance notes and the cost of fuel IS NOT the main cost of going camping is what is important to remember. A better spec'd pair of vehicles can make for just as much travel as before. And for the TV to be a more economical one to run the solo miles.

I was able to pay cash for both TV & TT. All ownership & op costs have been low short of renovating the TT's (which has been appliances & cosmetic, primarily). No more depreciation on it, and the curve on the truck has flattened considerably (which doesn't much matter as it will be kept for years to come; same for the [next] trailer as it will be a permanent purchase). No gasser truck comes close to the solo mileage, and the towing mileage is 50% better than what many report (even with smaller trailers). Alternately, there are at least a half-dozen other DODGE CTD owners with 28'-34' TT's showing the same kind of mpg.

For a full-timer a full size truck may make sense (and where it has IRS tax deductible miles otherwise), but for a part-timer there are better alternatives for most sizes of TT. (The short answer for What is the best TV has one word: turbodiesel).

The same analysis applies to the TT. Figure it at per night of use versus mpg cost; over a period of anticipated years.

The real problem with higher fuel costs is that everything else becomes more expensive. Everything for which we use money has a fossil fuel cost built in to it. And most of it has had to be transported. So whether it's tires, food, camp fees, services, etc, expect that all of it will rise. One might say, then, that all of this is just a matter of income . . . but the truth is that the availability of food & supply may become more difficult, not just the $ expense. Planning -- making an extended stay boondocker -- is also, potentially, part of "economy". DIY goes a long ways, too.

Time to get out pencil & paper and do some figurin'. Fuel to move the rig is only one consideration, and as it is THE expensive variable it behooves us to factor it at the very beginning (TV & TT spec). It's the other costs that bear close watching.

There is no real "savings" in fewer miles. Just lower out-of-pocket expense. Meanwhile the big costs continue unchanged and the low use of the vehicles just means a higher per mile actual expense over a given time period. Lowered "wear & tear" is not realistic for the same reasons. Just means the value is transferred to the next owner.

Better use of the TV when solo will offset much of the "pain" of towing mpg. A SCANGAUGE or ULTRAGAUGE is an inexpensive and useful tool to get a start. Along with records and analysis.

.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #62
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
Write to your local congrassman to make it illegal to export oil products overseas also ask them to get ethanol out of the gasoline. Our gas is being sold overseas to the highest bidder and you and I get stuck with higher priced gas as a result. Ethanol costs you about a 10% loss of use from a gallon of gas. So when you burn Ethanol that $4 gallon of gas really costs you $4.40 since you have to burn 10% more to go the same distance.

Perry
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 08:07 PM   #63
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,056
Bring back regulating gasoline.
__________________
r carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 08:09 PM   #64
3 Rivet Member
 
LaBigDogs's Avatar
 
2015 27' FB International
2011 25' FB International
Carencro , Louisiana
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 203
Images: 6
Blog Entries: 2
Not at all.... Bought it to roll.... not to sit in the garage.....
__________________
LaBigDogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 08:44 PM   #65
Rivet Master
 
mefly2's Avatar
 
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Western , ** Big Sky Country ** Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,283
As we are on a fixed income with no GABA for some time, of course, we will curtail the miles towed ... but not necessarily the time spent in the AS.
__________________
mefly2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #66
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,569
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
Write to your local congrassman to make it illegal to export oil products overseas also ask them to get ethanol out of the gasoline. Our gas is being sold overseas to the highest bidder and you and I get stuck with higher priced gas as a result. Ethanol costs you about a 10% loss of use from a gallon of gas. So when you burn Ethanol that $4 gallon of gas really costs you $4.40 since you have to burn 10% more to go the same distance.

Perry
You mean you want to restrict free enterprise (as if there were such a thing) and expect the oil companies to do something for all the subsidies they receive and the taxes they don't pay? Horrors!

The fact of the matter is that the cheap oil is going, going gone. Production versus reserves is the "lie" being pushed around these days. The "reserves" are meaningless, worldwide (the Saudi's obviously lying about theirs; not to mention the bs here at home), production is all that matters. And if they ain't no more to be produced (even at $121/barrel) that ought to speak louder than anything else.

The price goes up . . the economy falters. Price falls a bit. Economy resumes, foot-dragging. Price goes back up. Economy stumbles some more, worse now. And on it goes. The trend is not good. And it's here to stay.

Back to TV-TT economy . . . .

.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 11:04 PM   #67
Rivet Master
 
TouringDan's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,470
Rednax

As you know the significant fixed cost is depreciation when you buy a new or next to new TV. I was plesantly surprised when I looked at the depreciation for my 08 Tundra- 2wd, SR5 package, double cab, 5.7L, tow package with mirrors. I paid 25k for this truck out the door and with 37k miles, the truck is still valued at 23.3k (nada retail). This means that I have only lost about $2,000 in depreciation or 5 cpm. Fuel costs are 19 cpm solo and 29 cpm with the trailer. Most of my driving is solo (unfortunately), so even if you add in another $2,000-$3,000 for taxes, insurance and licensing, the total cost is still going to be in the area of 30 -35 cpm. To be fair, my driving costs will go up some as I am about ready to install new tires and will need to do some repairs as the milage goes up, but so far this has been a real economical truck. I bought this truck with the idea of driving it for at least 300k miles. I drive pretty gently and my 66 TW is pretty light, so I don't expect major expenditures for repairs later on, but we will see.

The original question asked can be tough because you have to dig deeper into the pocket for gas money and nobody likes to do this, me included. However when we look at the reason we have the truck and the Airstream, we can't just sit at home. So we have to do what we have to do, travel and camp, and pay whatever the gas bill requires. Just be thankful we are not traveling in Europe or New Zeeland.

Dan
__________________
TouringDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 07:23 AM   #68
3 Rivet Member
 
2014 27' Flying Cloud
Stowe , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 248
Fuel Prices

We live in Northern VT. During an early January snow storm, we made all our major travel plans for the year, and booked our campsites, prior to all this buzz about fuel prices. We'll do spring break in St. Augustine, FL in mid April - summer travel to Rocky Mountain National, CO, Grand Tetons, WY, and Yellowstone. The only thing that could slow us down is fuel rationing, like the early 1970s. Other than that... damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. Life is meant to be lived. Carpe Diem!!!
__________________
VT Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012, 07:27 AM   #69
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
Buy something that is already depreciated. My $7000 Excursion is not going to depreciate that much. I don't have to drive it. I do have to pay insurance on it. If I could afford to buy a new trailer for $80,000 and a tow vehicle for $50,000 then I would not care how much gas cost. Since my TV and trailer cost less than a new TV alone, then gas prices are a BIG part of the equation.

Perry

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Rednax

As you know the significant fixed cost is depreciation when you buy a new or next to new TV. I was plesantly surprised when I looked at the depreciation for my 08 Tundra- 2wd, SR5 package, double cab, 5.7L, tow package with mirrors. I paid 25k for this truck out the door and with 37k miles, the truck is still valued at 23.3k (nada retail). This means that I have only lost about $2,000 in depreciation or 5 cpm. Fuel costs are 19 cpm solo and 29 cpm with the trailer. Most of my driving is solo (unfortunately), so even if you add in another $2,000-$3,000 for taxes, insurance and licensing, the total cost is still going to be in the area of 30 -35 cpm. To be fair, my driving costs will go up some as I am about ready to install new tires and will need to do some repairs as the milage goes up, but so far this has been a real economical truck. I bought this truck with the idea of driving it for at least 300k miles. I drive pretty gently and my 66 TW is pretty light, so I don't expect major expenditures for repairs later on, but we will see.

The original question asked can be tough because you have to dig deeper into the pocket for gas money and nobody likes to do this, me included. However when we look at the reason we have the truck and the Airstream, we can't just sit at home. So we have to do what we have to do, travel and camp, and pay whatever the gas bill requires. Just be thankful we are not traveling in Europe or New Zeeland.

Dan
__________________
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #70
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,569
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Rednax

As you know the significant fixed cost is depreciation when you buy a new or next to new TV. I was plesantly surprised when I looked at the depreciation for my 08 Tundra- 2wd, SR5 package, double cab, 5.7L, tow package with mirrors. I paid 25k for this truck out the door and with 37k miles, the truck is still valued at 23.3k (nada retail). This means that I have only lost about $2,000 in depreciation or 5 cpm. Fuel costs are 19 cpm solo and 29 cpm with the trailer. Most of my driving is solo (unfortunately), so even if you add in another $2,000-$3,000 for taxes, insurance and licensing, the total cost is still going to be in the area of 30 -35 cpm. To be fair, my driving costs will go up some as I am about ready to install new tires and will need to do some repairs as the milage goes up, but so far this has been a real economical truck. I bought this truck with the idea of driving it for at least 300k miles. I drive pretty gently and my 66 TW is pretty light, so I don't expect major expenditures for repairs later on, but we will see.

The original question asked can be tough because you have to dig deeper into the pocket for gas money and nobody likes to do this, me included. However when we look at the reason we have the truck and the Airstream, we can't just sit at home. So we have to do what we have to do, travel and camp, and pay whatever the gas bill requires. Just be thankful we are not traveling in Europe or New Zeeland.

Dan
So long as we remember that components wear out (alternators, water pumps, suspension, steering, etc) and that it must be projected into the cost analysis. Even rough figures suffice.

On mine, at 8-years and 180k I am exactly at the half-way point. Therefore, not only the above items ought to be replaced (even without their failure) as longevity, reliability and low cpm means that "they" have served . . time to be sure that the next 180k/8-years is just as trouble-free.

So, yes, labor/parts/tools/supplies have to be factored in with purchase price, insurance, depreciation, etc.

The usual fate of vehicles is to be sold by about 7-8 years and the second/third owners run them into the ground. Not economical.

IOW, if I treat the TV in the way I treat the TT -- with respect, and for permanence -- then any variable costs (such as fuel) come waaay down in true cost. As we do on this forum, the use of vehicle enthusiast forums can spot trends or components on a particular vehicle to adjust maintenance plus R&R schedules.

I can travel more because I have spent less, overall, per mile and per night for a given budget. In fact, I can travel "free" for years with careful work in this way.

.
__________________

__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas Prices, Are You Driving Less? 68 Suburban Off Topic Forum 13 07-05-2012 11:47 AM
servicing gas part of refrigerator nickcrowhurst Refrigerators 3 02-21-2006 08:46 AM
Gas prices - !! ALANSD Our Community 56 10-31-2004 12:46 AM
Gas Furnace ketchumwt Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 4 12-04-2003 01:46 PM
Posted Gas Prices Raptorrider2001 Our Community 3 02-19-2003 11:19 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.