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03-01-2009, 12:17 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
1976 31' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Chandler
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,770
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Just my thoughts on this. When I got my first Argosy I NEEDED lots of help and had so many questions. I made some lasting friends that I email almost daily. I've met some of the people on this Forum in person. Now that I'm working on my second Airstream I don't need as much help, nor do I have as many questions. I look at the Forum daily; however, I don't participate as often as I once did mainly because (as previously stated) the questions and/or topics don't change all that much. Frankly I think this is a great place for Airstream information and interaction with folks who have the same passion for these trailers that I do. I don't concern myself with WBCCI or moderators. I just cruise the topics and learn about people's pets or their new trailer finds, or Michelle's wrecks (sorry Michelle just had to insert that). I just take what I need from what I consider a good informational site, and my life goes on while I dream of retirement and actually using one of my Airstreams. The folks here are just good, helping Americans and I enjoy them.
__________________
Judy At Home in Oklahoma
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03-01-2009, 07:19 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1993 34' Limited
Melbourne Florida
, Springfield Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 759
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I personally think the forum is great and I enjoy reading about different opinions (That is life I think). Each post and/or reply contributes not only information but the feelings of the individual. Again, just like the real world.
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03-01-2009, 07:39 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2007 23' International CCD
Lapeer
, Michigan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,080
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Good times roll in and out like waves. There will always be another wave to catch, or to miss... or to make, around here. That's the great part of AirForums and it's members. Perhaps it's time to reinvent ourselves...
Here's my part to make you smile Frank.
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03-01-2009, 08:54 AM
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#24
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans
, Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
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The site is a business which the owner happened to stubbled into because he purchased a trailer. I am not sure is that trailer is any further along than it was when he purchased it. It you are new a look at the bottom of the portal page you will see in very small print 15 other sites which are run by the same owner. The site is free and the owner is participating in the American Free Enterprise System which is a win win situation.
The site is made up by the users who come and go, I participate sometimes and I sometimes get bored and do not check in as much. I am fortunate and have many interest so I move form site to site. The format of this site is very well done and many long term users are present. The moderation is more than fair and polite. The information provided is excellent. It is not a club and should not be thought of as one if that is what one needs several exist and are more than willing to add a member or start your own club. In every group people come and go lives change and interest change many people move on to other activities. For those interested in a different format it is not difficult to start your own site and build up a user base, that is said not as a smart answer but just as a fact, If I remember correctly that is how this site evolved. Good times are what you make them.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
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03-01-2009, 08:59 AM
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#25
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Maybe the Forum isn't a traditional club, but aren't a lot of traditional clubs losing members? Hasn't the internet changed the game? Perhaps a forum is the new club.
Gene
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03-01-2009, 09:08 AM
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#26
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans
, Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Maybe the Forum isn't a traditional club, but aren't a lot of traditional clubs losing members? Hasn't the internet changed the game? Perhaps a forum is the new club.
Gene
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Gene I think you are correct, individuals have different taste in what they what in a club some want the structure that a established club offers and some want the less formal approach of a forum, it is ironic that if you start adding structure to the form you are defeating it's purpose I guess it is the circle of life.
Many RV clubs exist Manufacture Specific, Model Specific, Region Specific, Age Specific, they go on forever, pick one and enjoy.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
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03-01-2009, 09:42 AM
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#27
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Rivet Master
1963 22' Safari
2020 27' Globetrotter
State of
, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,512
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There are certainly things to improve on this site, as with all sites, clubs, not clubs etc. I'm not sure loss of people is anything you can stop. A good example for us, is that one hobbie has led to another. We for several years were active almost daily in a vintage jeep board much like this one while I finished a restoration started when I was in high school over a decade before. Now that the vehicle is done and these silver things are taking all my free time (well its expensive time, not free) I noticed the other day that it had been a year and a half since I had logged on and people were wondering where we had been. I think people's lives are changing. It always seems there are upgrades etc going on here. Searching is difficult, especially as more data is collected. An option to exclude certain forum categories from "today's posts" or something might help some, or just do what we do and decide to avoid going into certain threads. I think the positives far outweigh the negatives but it doesnt hurt to point out what can be improved upon.
__________________
Scott & Megan
VAC LIBRARIAN WBCCI 8671
1963 Safari from the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan
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03-01-2009, 09:49 AM
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#28
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Site Team
1964 26' Overlander
1964 19' Globetrotter
OlyPen
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmini
Are some threads started that are not Airstream related and become/are to political? Yes Sir. The moderators should stop them at the start.
Are threads some times hijacked or get off subject? I guess. But the moderators should be able to keep them on track.
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Tricky stuff, this.....
Moderating is a careful dance and almost always someones toes get stepped on. It's tough to stop folks from wandering into political discussions and one persons idea of politics is not anothers. Stopping conversations about politics while sometimes done, usually results in cries of jack-booted censorship.
One of the things to remember here is that for many, the forums isn't just about airstreams, it has become a gathering of friends who's interests and conversations wander widely. To limit that roaming diminishes their enjoyment. To keep discussions more tightly on track would mean post removals and PM's to folks who are just here to relax. So... we do the dance; trying to strike a balance between free flowing, naturally evolving conversations and the need maintain some semblance of order.
Members can help by reporting posts that are problems, using the ignore function to avoid having to interact with posters who annoy them and avoiding sections of the forum that are likely to have discussions that they either don't want to read or shouldn't read for lack of self-restraint.
It's important to keep all this in perspective - AIR is a unique community to be sure and many of us know each other out of the ether. We camp together, help each other do repairs, fix tow vehicles and a myriad of other things. But... this is the internet and at the end of the day you can step away from your keyboard. When you return, we will be happy to see you and there will be new discussions to read and participate in.
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03-01-2009, 10:35 AM
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#29
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Well put Janet. And same with Bob in #12. While I have an invisible "Question Authority" bumper sticker, I think the moderators generally do a good job and I hope because of this praise, will let me say anything I want politically in the future. My bumper sticker is invisible because I think it (or any Grateful Dead sticker) attracts traffic tickets.
I live in a rural area where newcomers are viewed with some suspicion and there are stark differences in culture and politics. To get along with people you see frequently, it is necessary to self-censor, at least until you get to establish some trust. To some degree newcomers and old timers exist in separate worlds, but we have to get along with just about everyone (I've learned that the hard way). There aren't so many people here and you can self-isolate. It's harder to flame people when you see them in person frequently. Clubs are different type of community because they are brought together by some common interest, but a lot of the same things are part of it and seeing each other in person is important and tempers anger.
The Forum is different in that many people are anonymous and don't know each other in person. It's true as Janet says, that over time some people do meet each other in person, but I suspect that's a minority. What is interesting is that flaming actually occurs very infrequently. Of course, some people will feel insulted when nothing offensive has been said; sensitive people exist everywhere. But, on the whole, this is a very respectful group.
I think attention to the Forum changes as one learns about what one has bought. Whether it's a restoration or a new Airstream, there's a lot to learn and after a while, that phase ends. Of course, things come up. I spent some time last evening researching wheel bearings and brakes because I don't want to pay someone to do the work on them. That will be a March project, or, maybe an April one.
I think eventually people move to off topic and social subforums where they can debate and discuss contemporary topics. Some will always debate their trucks because our trucks are an extensive of ourselves in the US (thus, I am reliable, have lots of power and handle well). Some people will drop out because they learned what they needed to learn, become busier than before, or don't want to argue over whether the WBCCI is relevant or not. People have different views and tolerances about debate—some don't want any, some see any disagreement as negative, some take criticism too much to heart, but others thrive in what is sometimes called the marketplace of ideas. So, some will drop out because they are uncomfortable with debate, others will find the experience useful and enlivening.
This kind of club is new and different and the rules are being written by us. It's true it's a commercial venture, but without the members there is no Forum and we own it too.
Gene
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03-01-2009, 10:36 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1966 24' Tradewind
Placerville
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,328
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I liken Airforums to an old hardware store. Albeit fast disappearing they are a treasure trove of 'just what you are looking for' and a lot of junk. As I rummage through that junk for what I know is in there I later realize/remember that 'junk' is the junk that I need now. In town we have "The Oldest Hardware Store In the West". It began at the begining of the California gold rush. Often after trying and failing find an item at the local Ace or True Value or Home Depot hardwares I slap my head and get ready to wade through everything possible that a hardware could carry at 'the oldest store'. And do you know what greets me as I enter, "May I help you find what you need?" "Well", I usually respond, "I don't believe you have 'this'......" 'We'll see about that is the reply......"
We don't HAVE to view everything in the forum but it's there when we do.
Neil
__________________
Neil and Lynn Holman
FreshAir #12407
Avatar;
Kirk Creek, Big Sur, Ca. coast.
1966 Trade Wind
1971 Buick Centurion convertible
455 cid
1969 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
455 cid
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03-01-2009, 12:51 PM
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#31
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Rivet Master
2001 34' Limited
The State of
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,605
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Frank, you wrote, "On my friends list, almost half have not participated by posting in over four months."
Frank, below is your list of 38 friends, the date of their last activity and the date of last post. Of your friends, only 4 have not posted in the last four months. There are 2 more who are close in early November and I'll give you those. Six out of 38 is 16%, nowhere near half.
And out of those six, two have 8 or fewer posts the entire time they've been here, and one has only posted 90 times since 2002.
Frank,
25 of your 38 friends (66%) have posted since Feb 1st
29 of your 38 friends (76%) have posted since Jan 1st
I believe you can see things at Airforums are not nearly as grim as you painted them.
I hope this cheers you up, Frank.
--
Moe
Friend - last activity - last post
1956Safari - Yesterday - Yesterday
3streams - 2/23/09 - 2/15/09
62-Lander - 2/16/09 - 2/16/09
64TrotterAtl - 2/11/09 - 2/08/09
Airboss - 2/22/09 - 2/17/09
airedale - Today - 2/20/09
Alumanutz - Today - 1/20/09
Andrew Selking - 2/25/09 - 08/04/08 (joined 12-29-2002 90 posts)
biggoofball - 2/23/09 - 1/10/09
BNC4K - 2/16/09 - 8/09/08 (joined 04/01/07 6 posts)
byamcaravanner - Today - Today
clancy_boy - Yesterday - 2/21/09
drag'nwagon - Yesterday - Yesterday
flyfshr - Yesterday - 2/25/09
goransons - Today - Today
GT1963 - not listed - Yesterday
IndyAnne - 01/13/09 - 11/03/08
Jim & Susan - Yesterday - 2/27/09
Lumatic - Today - Yesterday
mistral blue - not listed - Today
monocoque - 09/06/08 - 8/27/08
munimula - Yesterday - 2/29/09
NatchezBear - 2/1/09 - 11/2/08
Rhonda - Today - 2/27/09
robandzoe - Yesterday - 2/2/09
ROBERT CROSS - Today - 2/27/09
Safari Tim - 2/19/09 - 07/05/08
safari62 - 2/26/09 - 2/26/09
samb - Today - 2/7/09
Silver Threads - Today - 2/26/09
soldiermedic - Today - Today
streamer23 - Today - 2/14/09
Tad Pole - 12/13/08 - 11/27/08 (joined 8/20/08 8 posts)
TomW - 2/11/09 - 1/21/09
utee94 - Today - Today
uwe - unlisted - 01/01/09
vajeep - 2/5/09 - 12/15/08
Zeppelinium - Today - 2/28/09
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03-01-2009, 01:05 PM
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#32
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Rivet Master
1969 23' Safari
New Orleans
, Louisiana
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 699
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Not to hijack...but since I don't post much anymore I was going to say:
As one who checks in a lot for a while then not at all for a while I must say I MISS 2AIR!
Not only are his opinions extremely well thought out, but he posts (present tense) them line-by-line so you can really see what he's trying to say.
A stellar member of this non-club and a wealth of expertise.
The absolute best link-er who ever hit this site. You'd ask a question and get 10 or more links to posts that you weren't able to find with a "search". How he kept these organized is still a mystery to me...
I still like to hit this site regularly...kind of like going to a bar you enjoyed before you got married and had kids ;-)...
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03-01-2009, 01:48 PM
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#33
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe
Frank, you wrote, "On my friends list, almost half have not participated by posting in over four months."
Frank, below is your list of 38 friends, the date of their last activity and the date of last post. Of your friends, only 4 have not posted in the last four months. There are 2 more who are close in early November and I'll give you those. Six out of 38 is 16%, nowhere near half.
And out of those six, two have 8 or fewer posts the entire time they've been here, and one has only posted 90 times since 2002.
Frank,
25 of your 38 friends (66%) have posted since Feb 1st
29 of your 38 friends (76%) have posted since Jan 1st
I believe you can see things at Airforums are not nearly as grim as you painted them.
I hope this cheers you up, Frank.
--
Moe
Friend - last activity - last post
1956Safari - Yesterday - Yesterday
3streams - 2/23/09 - 2/15/09
62-Lander - 2/16/09 - 2/16/09
64TrotterAtl - 2/11/09 - 2/08/09
Airboss - 2/22/09 - 2/17/09
airedale - Today - 2/20/09
Alumanutz - Today - 1/20/09
Andrew Selking - 2/25/09 - 08/04/08 (joined 12-29-2002 90 posts)
biggoofball - 2/23/09 - 1/10/09
BNC4K - 2/16/09 - 8/09/08 (joined 04/01/07 6 posts)
byamcaravanner - Today - Today
clancy_boy - Yesterday - 2/21/09
drag'nwagon - Yesterday - Yesterday
flyfshr - Yesterday - 2/25/09
goransons - Today - Today
GT1963 - not listed - Yesterday
IndyAnne - 01/13/09 - 11/03/08
Jim & Susan - Yesterday - 2/27/09
Lumatic - Today - Yesterday
mistral blue - not listed - Today
monocoque - 09/06/08 - 8/27/08
munimula - Yesterday - 2/29/09
NatchezBear - 2/1/09 - 11/2/08
Rhonda - Today - 2/27/09
robandzoe - Yesterday - 2/2/09
ROBERT CROSS - Today - 2/27/09
Safari Tim - 2/19/09 - 07/05/08
safari62 - 2/26/09 - 2/26/09
samb - Today - 2/7/09
Silver Threads - Today - 2/26/09
soldiermedic - Today - Today
streamer23 - Today - 2/14/09
Tad Pole - 12/13/08 - 11/27/08 (joined 8/20/08 8 posts)
TomW - 2/11/09 - 1/21/09
utee94 - Today - Today
uwe - unlisted - 01/01/09
vajeep - 2/5/09 - 12/15/08
Zeppelinium - Today - 2/28/09
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You actually took the time to list that? You know what, Thank you. You have convinced me beyond any imagination as to what I need to do. Good bye.
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03-01-2009, 01:53 PM
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#34
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3 Rivet Member
1966 22' Safari
Chico
, California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 178
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I still post but not to this forum. I now try to maintain a blog showing the activity with my trailer. At one time I tried to write a blog in MS Word, add photos then post it here and my blog. I could not get that to work. I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. I don't have the time or patience to type all this out two times so while I still read the forum everyday, I don't post.
NUTZ
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03-01-2009, 03:10 PM
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#35
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Rivet Master
1975 Argosy 24
Collierville
, Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 727
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Keeping my mouth shut has become an endeavor of mine for personal growth, I haven't been very successful but I'm trying. I'm sure I've irritated some people, especially those who don't agree with me. I know I have had a couple of disagreements with the moderators as well. So let take this time to thank the moderators for their time and effort and now I'll get back to working on my personal groth project.
__________________
Different strokes for different folks!
I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein
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03-02-2009, 05:55 AM
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#36
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Rivet Master
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans
, Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alumanutz
I still post but not to this forum. I now try to maintain a blog showing the activity with my trailer. At one time I tried to write a blog in MS Word, add photos then post it here and my blog. I could not get that to work. I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. I don't have the time or patience to type all this out two times so while I still read the forum everyday, I don't post.
NUTZ
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Nice blog, except for the medical picture, you should post a warning about that. Thanks for the information it was informative.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
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03-02-2009, 06:35 AM
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#37
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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I tried to follow Mrmossyone's but by remaining silent, one is accepting the situation. My attempt was to open a dialog and for the most part it was successful.
Apparently I exaggerated the numbers of "friends" no longer participating in the forum. I apologize to all for my mistake. I also must have exaggerated them telling me they have moved on. The funny thing about my friends list is I never look at it. I get friendship requests and I always say yes. I had no idea I had 38 friends on my list. Oh, sorry, it now has 40, some request came through last night. I am actually glad it was pointed out to me. I am also glad to know that someone was so dedicated to putting me in my place, that they wasted so much time doing so. Someone( including myself) needs to get a life. It does however, lets me know exactly where I stand. I now understand that everything evolves including these forums. I however miss some people. To them I tip my hat...
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03-02-2009, 07:10 AM
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#38
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
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Well, this is an interesting thread!
Most of you don't remember this site in it's early days... it was really a kick then with just a few hundred members.
I joined the original VAC listserve back in '97 or '98 when I had my '62 Bambi and '57 Overlander. Andy started this site in '02 (or so) and I lurked for quite a while as internet forums were a relatively new phenomenon. I finally joined here in March of '03 after it looked like it was going to be successful. I was a mod for a couple of years here, and am still an administrator on one of Andy's other sites. After twenty years of owning Airstreams, I moved on, and didn't think it appropriate to remain a mod without owning an Airstream.
Folks' comings and goings are interesting, but it has to do entirely with interest and their personalities... everyone finds something different for themselves in an internet forum. And, as several of you noted earlier, as you learn about your trailer hobby, the less help you need.
There are a bunch of us old-timers who still hang around and check in from time to time... and for those of you concerned about 2AIR, he and I have locked horns on more than one occasion both as a mod and as individuals, but I still have the greatest respect for him, and I'm pleased to call him a friend. He PMd me here just a couple of nights ago... so he's alive and well.
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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03-02-2009, 09:48 AM
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#39
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Certifiable
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, .
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62overlander
I however miss some people. To them I tip my hat...
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Me too.
Hopefully we'll hear from them again soon.
__________________
"IT'S A MAGICAL WORLD, HOBBES, OL' BUDDY... LET'S GO EXPLORING!" ~ CALVIN
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03-02-2009, 09:57 AM
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#40
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Rivet Master
1963 26' Overlander
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue
Me too.
Hopefully we'll hear from them again soon.
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Totally agree.
You can look at it this way Frank-- if you were to leave the Forums, you would become one of those who are missed. Do you want that, or do you want to be one of the people who sticks around and helps influence the board?
I'm sure there will be a day when I spend less time on this message board than I currently do. But I think it likely that I will always come back and check in, to see what's going on. I like helping new folks, just as you and others have helped me, and continue to do so. Also, if I'm not checking this site, how will I find out about the new and interesting Airstream renovations that begin at some time in the future?
-Marcus
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