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Old 11-29-2008, 04:50 PM   #61
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Till,

Are you my straight man? I designed those products that go obsolete for Rockwell and Eaton for most of my career. That is EXACTLY why I created my own company, created a patent pending architecture, where the "interface to all devices, in all markets of all industries" is EXACTLY the same from the network interface, indepndent of CPU or anything. It is the first "real licensed open control" in the business. Thus SAME support tools for every product for any vendor. Any vendor can create their own tool or use someone elses. In fact, you could take the "User Applicaiton Programs" from a 5 year old product, download to a brand new product with the types of inputs and outputs, and it would work! Bottom line is my architecture SOLVES all the problems you describe, and far more. The only reason you have not seen this technology is because NONE of my customers over the past six years allow me to advertise they use my stuff inside. When I started my company I didn't see that coming, as I am obviously not a marketing guy. So why am I doing some of my own product? Since I will be able to describe anything I want about it, demonstrate its full flexibility and so on. This is NOT YOUR AUTOMOTIVE or INDUSTRIAL product crap. It is perhaps the best kept secret in the world of technology. In fact, as you will see, you will be able to take one hardware platform, download different User Application Programs (UAPs) and you will be able to change it into an entirely different product. This is not a "limited PLC" as if they solved all the problems you mention, you wouldn't have made the statements you made. By the way, these UAPs can include "extreme diagnostic programs" and so on. The best thing is as more is learned about a "new fault due to some new scenario" all I need to do is create another UAP to diagnose that problem, add it to the web site, and you then download the best diagnostics we have.

Relative to quality of product, assuming that is why your equipment becomes junk, do I use capacitors with a 1000hr rating or a little more expensive 5000hr rating? Gee, guess what's in your TV and such? So "junk hardware" is determined by you company accountants, not your engineers. Some product we did in "your industry" does things like watching the internal heat, the current draw through power devices, the voltage disspated by those devices and if a short occurs or some other issues that would turn it to "junk" it shuts down and tells you about the problem. Do the engine computers in your vehicle make your life a pleasure? Do they say "replace 02 sensor" or say "leaky injector cylinder 5" or anything like that? Nope, but it does put a smile on the dealership mechanics! If my stuff requires special training for 98% of possible faults, I failed. As far as I am concerned, all this garbage on the market is a "market opportunity". Hey, I tried to create a "user friendly architecture" when working for the "big boys" but as history shows, it must not be in the interst of corporate america. Remember, "if you don't pitch it out, your'e not buying a new one". That is not my philosophy because I am not trying to protect a market. In fact, our customers in your industry can diagnose and download new code to their devices over the existing network if the had to, they just don't have to.

So I hope, once introduced, you give our stuff a try and try to prove us wrong. If we have a problem we will fix it, but we are clearly trying to understand a "customers needs" before we provide a solution, as we believe a device shouldn't fail int he first place so it doesn't require fixing. Of course, that costs us a bit more in the hardware and time to write the software but since it can be reused across all products, not that big a deal. I understand the frustruation as I have all kinds of products around here that frustrate me as well, so I am just trying to fix it.

Regards,
Don
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:03 PM   #62
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User interface.

First I would like to acknowledge that I for one believe you have a good prospective on the issues.

Tank and battery monitor at the low end should be a simple set of LEDs for each for each indicating the level. A press of a button would activate. As others have suggested accuracy and dependablity are manditory. The value is not haveing a messey accident or creating a problem by emptying particularly the black tank too often. Also knowning when to start serious conservation is a benefit.

At the high end would be continous montoring with configurable alert levels. At this level it would provide a check list type of function. Press a button to see if everything is ready to move the trailer. If not identifiy all the functions which are not in a proper state (stablelizers up, light's off, Stove off, etc. This would also be configurable to enable or disable. Default disabled. It should automatically identify moniorable devices during configuration, allowing devices to be added or removed. A remote from the tow vehichel would add some more.

Hope some of this makes sense to you.
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Old 11-29-2008, 10:49 PM   #63
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Kiss

In my view (20+ years in manufacturing) the worst thing you can do is mess up somebody's leisure time...

Ask Johnson and Evinrude how well cutting edge new technology worked out for them...oh wait a minute, it's now a Bombardier phone number
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:59 AM   #64
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Don,
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't have the confidence in most any mid-range RV manufacturer these days to build a lasting, quality product with any increase in the overall product's technology...

IMHO, profits, and investor's ROI rule the roost to the extent that quality control almost takes a back seat...if one finds cosmetic imperfections annoying, just think about those 'imperfections' that may lay behind hidden areas of the product...wiring and plumbing not secured properly, components not attached properly, improper electrical connections, weather leaks in panels, loose or not tightened hardware, etc, etc...Once these kinds of issues are addressed on a consistent basis, it would seem the sky's the limit for an increased 'Tech-level' in RV's...

I sure do agree with you on the importance of a Navigation system for the traveling RV'er...I've owned several Garmin hand held GPS units for years, but it wasn't until taking a cross-country road trip that I bought a portable Garmin NUVI GPS - the greatest thing since sliced bread, as they say!...When in unfamiliar territory, on the road, the newer GPS Nav devices are without peer!...if anyone out there doesn't believe us...borrow one from a friend for a short trip and you will be converted!

My mention of a battery powered impact wrench was an illustration of adapting a good shop tool for additional use when traveling with our AS...I guess I could also hook it up to our hand cranked blender to make our evening Margaritas....

Also, to toss another 'option' into the trailer leveling discussion...I've recently add another new 'low-tech' toy to our traveling gear...It's an 'RV Pillow', a pneumatic heavy, multi-ply plastic 'bag' that you park the low side of the trailer tires onto, in your camp spot...then you hook a 12V air compressor (everyone has one of these for emergences and inflating the kid's toys, right?) to the bag's fitting and inflate till the side-to-side attitude is level...level the trailer for-aft with the tongue jack, and you're done!...Hand me that cold one, after such a 'hard' work-out getting camp set up!
Ray
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Old 11-30-2008, 09:37 AM   #65
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Being inherently lazy, I love gadgets that make life easier, until they break. In the Minuet, when I want to know how much fresh water is left in the tank, I open the hatch under the dinette and look at the tank. Gray water will be the same as soon as I cut a hatch and black water is also easy to check, just turn off the water, open the toilet and shine a light inside. The battery check is a $12 volt meter that plugs into the 12V socket in the galley. This Minuet is 31 years old and the fridge, furnace, toilet, all still function as expected. I don't think electronics are going to help much. Hog tight, horse high, and bull strong along with light weight don't need to be mutually exclusive. Just takes more thought. OK <rant off>
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Old 11-30-2008, 04:41 PM   #66
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tbaugh,

Gee, now your sounding like a "systems guy" which is really where the value of networked systems reside. With a few key monitoring points and a truly integrated system, all kinds of things are possible. In effect, we are going to allow those whom like to "tinker" to actually "modifiy device operation and add their own features if they like". Of course, our stuff will always provide the old "man I really got this thing messed up and return me to default operation" selection.

All electronic stuff in you car wake up due to some event, like pushing the brake or turning on the key. When the key is turned off, after a period of time all the electronics go to sleep (turn off) so they don't consume any power. I planned on waking up when any button was pushed, where by default, would turn off a period of time later. You will see the ability to communicate with the trailer and integrate vehicle info with trailer info, so doing things like knowing when the vehicle is started and something in the trailer is "incosistent with moving the trailer" all kinds of alerts could occur, as well as the alarm points you reference. It appears many campers don't want this stuff to invade their camping experinece, and I can understand that, but for those whom want some convenience items we aim to please.

The biggest problem in automation is sensor, RELIABLE sensors, or knowing what sensor is bad if a problem occurs. Additionally, sensor cost can be an issue. If the sensor to monitor stuff costs too much, its not worth doing. On the leveling a trailer, I can do that cheap. On the water volume, I have "industrial quality electonics" for that stuff, but trying to find an appropriate low cost sensor. I now some low costs ways to get there, just need to make certain they are not patented. That is the only item in front of me on the tanks. Heck, if you wanted to pay a few hundred bucks for a sensor, no problem, but don't thing people would be willing to do that.

Mexray,

On some of the trailer vendors out there, I have a line of people whom would clearly agree with you. One guy told me, and I don't know if it is true or not, that many trailer companines got their start by farmers whom had nothing to do in the off season, pulled out their welders, and made trailers. Nothing against that, if it is true, but the industry is more builders and assemblers than technology driven, so from best I can tell, only the larger trailer companies possibly have the capabilities to do it right. In industry, you have trained technicians. In automotive you have trained technicians. In trailer industry, far as I can tell, you don't. So I can't expect ANY literacy in the application / installation of this stuff, and will be pleasantly surprised when I see it. In my prior life, for a new product, I always thought you sould give it to a secretary, have her install it and get it running while carefully capturing every question and every "poorly documented" installation procedure. Nothing against secretaries, but you need to pick someone that does not know the buzz words and such and needs to have everything described very clearly. In fact, the second thing I do for a new product is write the owners manual, before I write one line of code or order the first circuit board. An owners manual usually uncovers "what is important". Then once installed, burn the manual, break stuff, and see if the owner can figure out what is wrong. My stuff has to pass those two sequences; where the secretary is replaced with my wife or my daughter.

On the nav, finding a restaurant you never went to, a customer you never visited, once you used one you will NEVER go back to a map. You may use mapquest to get an address correct, but that's about it. I am trying to find "my nav product" where one may not think they want it, but after they use it, they won't go back.

Everyone keep you complaints, ideas and possible needs coming. I am not saying I will provide all solutions to all problems, but you will see some solutions where you can decide if you want them.

Regards,
Don
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:45 AM   #67
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WARRANTY? Please respond!

OK, well all seem to fear something breaks. Ya, I buy craftsman tools (even though they are getting pretty crappy as I can "twist" a small crafstman straight with a "little help" where they historically would ruin the screw (no heat treat I guess) primarily because I can return them, get a new one, and out the door. The ONLY reason I buy them.

On electronics no one does that for numerous reasons. For example; "I connected the input to 120vac by mistake and it doesn't work any more". I could make it work for that extreme, but few want to pay for that in the purchase price. For something like that, even if not admitted to by customer, I could see a lower cost replacement.

Since initially I don't plan on doing any products that "shut down a trailer" like "load shedding could", until I "learn the market" and typical abuse I would like your input. First an example, as it is happening to me TODAY!

My furnace in my house is cycling on and off;

1) Is it the exhaust air flow switch?
2) Is it the differential pressure switch?
3) Is it the high temp trip?
4) Is the theormostat cycling calling for heat, up to temp, heat?
5) Exhaust blower motor failing, thus air flow switch is causing the cycling?

Yep, I think this CLEARLY falls into your typical life of if I knew what was wrong I could buy the part cheaper, replace the part myself, and I am done. Ya, I know some stuff to watch to "try to eliminate the easy faults" but do I "really know for sure that is the problem"? Sound familiar.

So item 1, our stuff will TELL YOU anthing it can assess. May even request you do something to help it determine the fault. Of course the "furnace guys" don't do this as it would cost probably $10 cost to provide a cheap display or even less for a code flashing LED.
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So lets say it says you have a bad "left/right" sensor;

1) Ship it to us UPS ground for about let's say $7
2) We fix it for cost, let's say $20
3) We ship it back to you and charge you for a for shipping of say $7
4) Your repair cost is about $35

I forgot to mention, we opened to box and it obviously was "under water" but that doesn't matter, was broken so we fixed it, and the return would say what we found so you can possibly avoid it in the future.

The above is the "ideal vendor situation" where "repairs cost".
-----------------------------------
Then there is the best buy approach, charge you up front for a service contract. Some of you do that, I never do. Let's call this the "service contract" approach.

-----------------------------------------
Then there is the perceived customer ideal situation;

1) You call get an email containing a UPS return label.
2) You ship it to us at our cost, we fix it, return it at our cost.

The problem is, we are really doing a "mandatory service contract" since our price includes this possible overhead, but you probably believe we are the ideal company. Sounds like a lot of trailer vendors take this approach, where some of you say they should just make a better product. Sometimes better means higher price and you buy from the other guy, so they do the "hidden mandatory service contract" as their price is covering this expense.
-------------------------------------
Which does each of you prefer, or do you have another alternative. If you say just don't buy it in the first place, I already know that answer. For those whom actually might buy something electronic please respond. By the way, if our hardware EVER went obsolete and failed, repair would generally provide the "new version" at the "repair cost scenario" thus our stuff would "never be obsolete" for those whom have voiced this concern, and we clearly thank you for that insight.

Please respond to this one.
Regards,
Don
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:46 AM   #68
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Looking back to posts #46-56 and the question of levelling the trailer -- and a question on another thread concerning proper jack points on an A/S -- I asked in yet another thread

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f457...ing-46603.html

if anyone was familiar with the Bair Hydraulic Jack central point leveling system offered by the late, great Streamline Travel Trailer Co. by the late 1960's.

I offer this now as a point of seeing what history offers. It should be noted that Streamline, like Silver Streak and Avion travel trailers were built on separate two or three channel 6" steel frames unlike an A/S.

An interesting thread, C5Don, with stirring arguments (definitions of "correct ways").

My interest in reading is not simply from curiosity, but to see if I someday wish to retrofit my trailer with a device or system that would be labor-saving as I age; thus, potentially, lengthening the time I am physically able to utilize a travel trailer. I'm not yet old in that sense (I see that as being about age 75 where the men of two generations of my family quit towing, but traveled for 5-7 years more on their own before reverting to airlines and trains), but I am interested in reliability first, convenience second as a point of departure.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:57 AM   #69
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REDNAX,

Reliability shall be very high, where in general our designs "protect themselves" from envisioned faults and then indicate the fault to the user. Our experience in the trailer market is; if you install it properly by following directions, you should be fine. We do things like monitor current flow through high power outputs to make sure "ratings are not exceeded" and if they are, we shut down and indicate the problem. For example, a locked up motor, a short and such we can't fix, we can just tell you it exists so you can fix it. If you connect 120VAC to some DC inputs, some will survive for a while, some would "smoke immediately", so again, you have to install it correctly. We generally detect numerous types of sensor failures and indicate the problems clearly. In one industry I worked in early in my career (process control) some customers were so afraid of autmation we had to put manual backup switches on "all the outputs" just in case things failed. Let's just say today they don't do that any more as it was never worth the expense. I believe if you see a product from us you will see we put the end user first, where a retired person with bad eyes better be able to read the display and better be able to understand and operate the user interfaces, NOT like setting the clock on your VCR or DVD player or getting your flatscreen TV to work in HD! Pathetic excuses for engineering and clearly not KISS.

I too reviewed the existing leveling systems and such and not being from this industry was actually taken back a bit by the control systems offerred, and their prices. I believe in providing "manual control" of stuff, but also believe in KISS and one touch control and let the "brains level the trailer while limiting frame torsion" and only use individual "lift control in unusual circumstances. I believe we will be able to offer the proper "open control" technologies to perform one button leveling using various lifting technlologies based upon the needs of the trailer. There are people out there whom are skilled in the lifting side of the problem where, and like anything else, there are a prolifera of possible solutions depending upon how one "defines the problem being solved". From your experience, how many inches do you have to lift one side of the trailer to make it level?

Relative to my current knowledge on this subject, the lift distances clearly determines the lift technologies that may be used, the installation issues, and the final cost of the systems. As you are probably aware, creation a solution that solves 100% of the worst case requirements is more difficult then solving 80% of the lift scenarios. I would guess that multiple solutions could exist for different users, so my current question to users is; How much lift do you need left to right side, and since people generally drive up on ramps, how many inches of ramp are usually used and what is the maximum lift people generally carry with them?

Since I imagine today people use the tongue jack, is its range up and down of the existing jack generally sufficient, and if not, now many inches of blocks are added below it in general, and worst case?

I do know from 30 years in engineering, copying the competitors assumes they did their homework, which sometimes is not the case. All "lifting situtation" input is greatly appeciated, even if it is as simple as; 10 inches left to right, 30 inches front jack.

Regards,
Don
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:28 AM   #70
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Thumbs up My experience only...

Don,

I have only had to level side/side up to a max of about 5". At times I use one of the orange "blocks" under the tongue to compensate for soft ground conditions. The ramp I made is 3/4" and each of the blocks about 1". The blocks lock together to create a ramp if needed.
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:18 PM   #71
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Questions update

He's back! To all whom were so kind as to give their comments, both pro and con, relative to the optional future accessories for your trailers. I have completed all the "hard stuff" for some of the devices you guys requested. I have electronic hardware designs, running prototypes, software and so forth. I know estimated manufactured costs based upon volumes and so on. Pretty much your basic product development stuff. I did create the hardware so that every output is fused, as requested, which to you guys cost you about $1.50 cents per output (not cheap). Depending upon application, we even monitor the current flow to tell you "where" you have a short and in most cases can tell you where it is, probably before blowing a fuse, which questions their need. However, just in case, to give peace of mind they are there.

Since some of the applications could require running motors forwards or backwards we provide two types of outputs, some that apply power when turned on (typical in the US), and some the pull to ground when turned on (typical outside US). Some applications do not require both output types. Assuming cost and reliability are improved using the "pull to ground" approach, would you guys care? This means that if you wired up some solenoids, one side that would traditionally be connected to ground would be connected to the battery. The other side would be connected to the controller, where the output would normally be open (off). To turn it on, it pulls the connected wire to ground, turning on the solenoid. This is the "inverse" of what you guys are used to seeing, voltage on wire when off, ground when on. Again, do you care?

Relative to a trailer leveling there are a minimum of two options; A device that would display to you when trailer is level, out of level, and how much out of level without any automatic lifting electronics. This can't shut down your trailer, just tells you how much to shim one side or the other, if you need to do so. That was one customer request. This is relatively cheap system since it is only electronics. If you have to lift one side, it tells you how many inches to add below tires. Same as you do today, just eliminates the guess work. Those whom still want to use a bubble level wouldn't buy such a product.

Relative to "assited leveling", push a button and trailer levels itself if enough range is available in lifting devices. If insufficient lift, tells you where to "add blocks". Electronics is flexible enough to run motors for lead screws (there is a patent) in forward and reverse, hydraulics with a pump and solenoids, air bags with pump and solenoids. System really does not care lifting approach used, just need to tell system which approach you would like to use and wire it accordingly. Don't know if anyone will want to sell lifing systems, time will tell.

For those of you whom wanted "volume" of tanks I have a bit more to work on one type of sensor. I decided one unit which retrofits ALL fluid level systems for your tanks is best. This system uses "same display" device as the leveling system, and same as used for some yet to be announced devices from one of my customers. This device eliminates all those crude LED systems you currently use. I guess if all those existing tank volume systems were so reliable, would have not been a market for this volume/tank level system. From what I was able to determine, looks like airstream is on their third tank level system and sounds like that one is working out very well. Hopefully I can solve this problem for you guys.

Some of my research uncovered some other issues that sounds like there are a few more "unreliable devices" out there, and unreliable by design by what I have determined. Hopefully we can eliminate some of your nuisance problems with some of these exisiting elelctronics you guys have to put up with, making them as reliable as the "core trailers" themselves.

By the way, that is a "unique suspension system" you guys have on your trailers.

Any other things you guys want to vent about are welcome.
Don
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #72
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Tank Calibration Proposal

In interest of "full disclosre" C5Don is now returning as a "vendor" as RTOS_1_LLC. I have tried very hard not to violate any forum rules but am providing the results of your comments.

I would like to thank everyone for their comments on tank gauging in this thread as well as others. It clearly helped us to identify the "requirements" of a tank gauging system based upon existing solutions; from simple probes to the various sensor technologies. Although I initially made these posts back in 2008 (how time flies) I believe we have resolved almost every "issue" we could find.

Again, to make "full disclosure" I am a product vendor whom used this forum, as well as others, to perform market research. It is true "everyone" could view my questions, your comments and so forth, which was highly discouraged by some of my corporate marketing friends, but since we are nearing production and a "small business" I am posting some final functional decisions that are the final result of "your comments" for your review and "re-comment". So please "lock and load" and provide your sometimes brutal comments. Rather than make this a "very long" post, I will keep it to "requirement" and "implementation decisions". Hopefully we didn't fail in our assessments.

REQMT 1) System must work reliably.

Per your comments we created the following detailed requirements;

REQMT 1a) Keep all electrical connections away from liquids and weather to eliminate the possibility of corrosion.
REQMT 1b) Since toilet paper and black water "stuff" and grease in gray water tank can "clog sensor" ideally provide self cleaning or simple cleaning to remove clogging material.
REQMT 1c) System calibration should not change through time.
REQMT 1d) System calibration, when performed should be simple.
REQMT 1e) IF re-calibration required through time ideally don't require refilling tank to full with water. (Not a hard requirements, but would be nice based on the "stand pipe" comments elsewhere in the forum.

Solution 1a) We utilized a "bubble tube" technology commonly used in sewage treatment plants. You have probably seen the "theory of operation" in a acquarium bubbler where an air pump feeds air into the fish tank and you see the bubble adding air to the water. For a tank gauge you do not need constant air flow, but need to pump a "little air" into a tube at the bottom of the tank or tank discharge pipe to evacuate any fluids. The compressed air in the bubble tube is then the same hydrostatic pressure as the end of the bubble tube in the fluid. This bubble tube is flexibly PVC tubing connected to a small nipple threaded into the discharge pipe or tank, similar to existing probes or pressure sensors. Then pressure sensors are then located in an electronic control module at the other end of the bubble tube, where the control module is located higher than the highest liquid level. Since water can not flow up hill, it never reaches the electronics or even the sensor. Although the "sensor technology" is the same as you used and can be subjected to fluids, we "don't want" to plug the sensor or have chemical eventually fail the sensor should the silicon like isolation material in the sensor get damages through time. In effect, only air touches the sensor. Thus no electrical connection corrosion.

1b) To achieve self cleaning the air pump, when running, will "blow out" most clogs that are caused by "hydrostatic pressure" since the pump is capable of 7psi and the hydrostatic pressure forcing materials into bubble tube is 1psi for every 2.31 feet in liquid height. Thus 7PSI will clear common clogs. The maximum pressure the sensor can withstand, without damage is just over 7psi, thus unit will not damage itself in the case a clog exists. If totally clogged access control module, wherever it is conveniently located, remove the bubble tube at the control module, give the bubble tube to the tank a short blast of say 20 PSI into the tube and your clog will be cleared. Push bubble tube back onto control module and you are good to go. Just do NOT apply compressor air pressure into control module or you could damage the sensor and have to return control module for repair. If you are an electrical engineer or technician you could replace a sensor yourself, but just don't blast it and you should never damage it.

1c) Since sensor is not getting "coated through time" you should never have to reset "empty" and "full" settings unless you "blast sensor" with air pressure.

1d/e) If you have to set empty and full you merely go to the respective calibration screen on the display module, and with the bubble tube disconnected from the control module set the Empty value to the current Reading value shown on the display and that sets the empty setting. This should never be necessary, but if it is, that is how you do it. To sent the Full value you have a couple of alternatives. In general you merely go to the "Tank Calibration" screen and enter the Maximum Height of tank, in tenths of an inch, and you are done. However, in interest of full disclosure, if somehow you accidentally blasted the sensor and assuming sensor still works, you may have to change the "Full" value read from the sensor. You can use a "stand pipe" similar to other units, or take a short length of "bubble tubing" into a plugged pipe of any diameter filled with water to the maximum height of your tank. The Sensor Full screen will be displaying the current sensor reading; say it say 3022 and it will show your current "Full" setting, say it says 3956. Just change the "Full" value to the vaue displayed at the applied water level of 3022 and calibation is done. Just remove the temporary bubble tube from control module and install the bubble tube going to tank. You could also fill your tank with water without having to remove any bubble tubes, and sett the Full value to the current Reading value.

Please provide your comments as we REALLY want to make certain we haven't missed something. Other posts will discuss other requirements and the resulting solutions. I know many on this forum want to know "how stuff works" primarily to assess if they "think it will work". Thus I will disclose a LOT relative to many of your questions. If I can't, or think it's a bad idea to provide an answer to a question, I will say so. So again, let me have it. I can take it.

Don
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:24 PM   #73
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Others have said and will say it better than I, but here’s my 2 cents......

......Maybe there’s a market for the truly high-end RV market, but most of us here are not part of that market.

Jim
1a. Have you talked to Boeing or Airbus Industries? They may have a practical application for your engineering

1b. Airstreams, while having a reputation for being expensive (when bought new these days) are still not really high-end compared to the entire market.

1c. I prefer to have things simple, not over-complicated (obvious).

2a. It's a poop tank. Pick up the lid and see if it's full.

2b. I really appreciate your engineering efforts and the intellectual exercise. But it's just too much for a camper.

2c. I hope you're on the up-n-up. Otherwise, this has been a really good joke for somebody.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Jim
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim & Susan View Post
1a. Have you talked to Boeing or Airbus Industries? They may have a practical application for your engineering

1b. Airstreams, while having a reputation for being expensive (when bought new these days) are still not really high-end compared to the entire market.

1c. I prefer to have things simple, not over-complicated (obvious).

2a. It's a poop tank. Pick up the lid and see if it's full.

2b. I really appreciate your engineering efforts and the intellectual exercise. But it's just too much for a camper.

2c. I hope you're on the up-n-up. Otherwise, this has been a really good joke for somebody.

Again, just my 2 cents.

Jim
Well said Jim...

KISS...keep it stupid simple.

Never had a problem with any of the monitors, flush all regularly,(baking soda in the black) after every trip. Garden hose down the toytoy, spray full blast.

All we ever really wanted from the Mothership was a much better application of a very straightforward quality control program. Too much to ask I guess.

Bob
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:42 PM   #75
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Seems like an elaborate solution for a relatively simple problem. Or as I am fond of saying "a solution in search of a problem to solve".
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:25 PM   #76
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For those whom are happy with their current system operation that's great. If you do searches here and other RV sites for "level sensor" and "tank level" and such you will find that there is a segment of the market that does consider the problems they are having as needing a solution. Things like corroded connectors, failed sensors, periodic recalibration to name the top three. Solutions for the existing problems are what the system is targetted at correcting. It's like what I tell my kids, my phone works just fine. Why would I need an iPhone? We had a commercial on TV around here a few years ago that said; "I don't want to change the world, I just want to change your oil". I'm just trying to fix a know problem once and for all, nothing more, nothing less.

When you see future features added to the system I am thinking some of these features will be of interest to many of you whom don't currently have a tank level problem. In the future you will just download some software to the existing hardware we will be able to provide functionality where some of you may have separate (expensive) products installed in your RV to provide some of these functions. They will be kind of like "cruise command" and "heated seats" in my car. Didn't need them, really never wanted them, but once I had them I now can't do without them.

Hopefully I will be able to do some posts tonight to provide an "end user" perspecitive versus a technical one. As additionaly features are added for a very low additional cost, I may start to sway even some of the greatest KISS advocates. That ball is in my court.

Don
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #77
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Verrrrry Interrresting

This is a fascinating thread, I think a leveling indicator in the TV would be lovely. My hubby says that it should be wireless, makes sense. The Prodigy brake controller has a auto leveler in it, could it somehow be piggybacked?
Anyway, as I was reading this song was going through my head. Yeah! This is what I want, to bounce the graviton particle beams off the main deflector dish!! Thought you guys would get a chuckle, it only faintly applies-sort of. Warning, a few naughty words, so don't open if you are sensitive or the grandkids are nearby.

Leonie
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