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Old 01-31-2010, 07:20 PM   #113
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whendesigninganewsystemyougettochoosewhethertomimi c theexistingphysicalsystemorderiveanewperformancepa radigm itwouldseeminthiscasethatTdecidedtomimictheexistin gphysicalsystem
thereissomesenseinthisbecausethefailuremodesaremos tlyfamiliar
"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

I get no matches for this when I use the search function.... Should it be capitalized?
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:24 PM   #114
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Something that has not been discussed enough is the comparison of brake horse power compared to engine horse power. Think about it. It takes close to a 1/4 mile or more for the average car to accelerate to 60 mph. It takes far less to stop that car from 60 mph when applying the brakes. Another consideration is the stall test. Stand on the brakes and apply full throttle. In each case the brakes will win. Toyota's suggestion to Stand on the brakes should stop the car and avert disaster allowing one time to have the problem corrected.
Hi, Howie. What you say makes since, but in my real life experience, while the vehicle is in motion it's a whole different story. Drive to about 30 miles per hour or faster, floor the gas/throttle pedal with your right foot, and press the brake pedal with your left foot and see who wins. I have driven cars with the cruise control engaged and a bad stop light switch; There is no way I could even slow the car down, yet alone stop it. [I turned off the ignition switch and used both feet on the brake pedal] I used to power brake my hot rods, let off of the brakes for a second to do an in-place burn out, and once the rear wheel started to spin, there was no stopping it. [note this was drum brakes on my car]
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:39 PM   #115
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"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

I get no matches for this when I use the search function.... Should it be capitalized?
Sorry, bad googletrans into 2airspeak.

The point was that when converting a mechanical system to a digital one, you have the choice of whether or not to mimic the mechanical system.
In most cases, this is what you want, as it is what people are used to and the failure modes are mostly pretty well understood.

However, the introduction of new technologies - and electronic throttle pedals aren't all that new: semi trucks started using them many years before passenger cars - also allow you to do some new safety and performance things and (this is IMPORTANT) introduce some new failure modes.

In this case, it's starting to appear that the Denso part (autoblog article) is being recalled in Europe, and there may be some related software issues. I really doubt we'll ever find out the full extent of what has happened, which is really too bad. From a lessons learned, technical viewpoint, it would be invaluable.
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:43 PM   #116
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Hi, Howie. What you say makes since, but in my real life experience, while the vehicle is in motion it's a whole different story. Drive to about 30 miles per hour or faster, floor the gas/throttle pedal with your right foot, and press the brake pedal with your left foot and see who wins. I have driven cars with the cruise control engaged and a bad stop light switch; There is no way I could even slow the car down, yet alone stop it. [I turned off the ignition switch and used both feet on the brake pedal] I used to power brake my hot rods, let off of the brakes for a second to do an in-place burn out, and once the rear wheel started to spin, there was no stopping it. [note this was drum brakes on my car]
I think you could also express it with the formula Energy = mass * (velocity squared).

That is, there is far more energy in the system at 50mph than there is at zero. At 100 mph and full throttle you're asking the brakes to turn a fantastic number of joules to heat.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:29 PM   #117
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So you're telling us Albert drove a rod?
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:18 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Howie. What you say makes since, but in my real life experience, while the vehicle is in motion it's a whole different story. Drive to about 30 miles per hour or faster, floor the gas/throttle pedal with your right foot, and press the brake pedal with your left foot and see who wins. I have driven cars with the cruise control engaged and a bad stop light switch; There is no way I could even slow the car down, yet alone stop it. [I turned off the ignition switch and used both feet on the brake pedal] I used to power brake my hot rods, let off of the brakes for a second to do an in-place burn out, and once the rear wheel started to spin, there was no stopping it. [note this was drum brakes on my car]
You are correct. My mistake in comparing the effective power comparison between the breaks and the engine was assuming the accelerator pedal had returned to the idle position.
Not the case with a stuck pedal.

So far tonight CNBC and PBS Night Business News have had comments on Toyota's suggested repair. CNBC discribes it as an addition of a "Shim" behind the return spring. The NBN describes it as a "Bar" installed in the pedal. However in an interview on the NBN with the north American CEO of Toyota he was question that many think the problem resides in the software of the electronically control system.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:08 PM   #119
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Woz thinks it's a software problem.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:47 PM   #120
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The Dept of Transportation is looking at that too. Story here (autoguide).

I had one Toyota and found that an unpleasant experience, but I get no joy out of this. Nickel says they're reflashing modules during the recall.

[Edit: add this article from The Pittsburgh Channel daht comm.
(Transportation Secretary) LaHood said there appeared to be a disconnect between Toyota's North American offices and the company's headquarters in Japan. Toyota officials in North America took the problem seriously, but the Japan operation needed to be prodded, he said. LaHood said it took a trip by a top transportation official to Japan "to wake them up to the idea that this is a serious issue."
/ edit ]
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:47 PM   #121
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GM has good bankruptcy attorney's if Toyota needs them......

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood confirmed that the government was investigating potential electronic problems in the Toyota vehicles but declined to discuss the ongoing investigation. A Transportation official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, said the government was taking a fresh look at the electronic throttle control system and potential electromagnetic interference.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AP-Int...n&asset=&ccode=
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #122
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Toyota's Working on it

So I do events and meetings and this morning I worked on an internal employee meeting got Gulf States Toyota which handles distribution to 5 southern states including Texas. These guys are working hard to correct the problem internally and with Toyota Motor Corp to fix the problem. Dealers are contacting customers and are preparing to be open 24/7 to do the 30 minute fix on the cars affected by the recall. There's a Chicago company manufacturing the replacement gas petals and if I understood it correctly the metal fix on the new petals is about the size of a postage stamp. It's a massive effort internally. They are working on a master list of SKUs on the cars to determine what units are actually effected. It was summed up by a statement "I drive Toyotas, my family drives Toyotas, my neighbors drive Toyotas."
That means it's personal and that safety is job one.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:05 PM   #123
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:53 AM   #124
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Perhaps Woz's Prius doesn't have this problem with regenerative braking not working.

It's been a lot of years since I replaced points and condenser, gapped the former, and set the timing. I once replaced the speedo cable in an Olds Cutlass I thought they'd built around the cable! Maybe those days weren't as bad as I remember!
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:13 AM   #125
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Apparently, others do.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:09 AM   #126
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I squirted some SWINE FLU vaccine in our Toyota Prius and Tundra brakes so I am not worried now.
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