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Old 01-29-2010, 11:41 AM   #85
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dish out the F E A R !

I remember the "good ole' days" not so long ago when I would crawl under the dash / hood / undercarriage and shoot some lube juice in the sticking / sqweaking / part. This was only after driving around with that said part showing signs of neglect for many months. At least in my case.

How many here have done manual adjustments with left and right foot/ hands to offending part including sticky throttle, idle, brakes and clutch, oh......and yes, that floor mat riding on the gas pedal.

It seems vehicles have become so modern and maintenance free the only thing people reach for is the cell phone to call 911 / lawyer / CNN / 60 Minutes / God of choice.

Why ME? Fear!!! Help me! Please give me someone else to blame!
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:56 PM   #86
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This may give you some insight
Toyota sends gas pedals to factories, not dealers - Yahoo! Finance

After you read this decide if you would have a none electrical trained mechanic attempt to rebuild your pedal or if you are going to hold out for a NEW PEDAL
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:30 PM   #87
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Is it a mechanical problem or a electrical problem? Some people are saying it could be a electrical problem.
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:41 PM   #88
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buy American,
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:47 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toastie View Post
Is it a mechanical problem or a electrical problem? Some people are saying it could be a electrical problem.
Considering the type of throttle used in the newer cars it is most likely electrical.

I had originally suggested it was electrical but in the CPU just because I thought the built in redundancy used in this type of pedal would preclude a failure there.

It has been stated that the Company supplying the pedals in American but it is not clear where the pedals are made. Odd that Ford is have the same problem with their Chinese production.
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:52 PM   #90
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Mechanical or Electrical....

Electrical...


Statement from Toyota on Supplier CTS

Toyota Motor Engineering & Manufacturing North America (TEMA) has been working closely with supplier CTS on a revised design that effectively remedies the problem associated with accelerator pedals. Pedals featuring the revised design are now in full production at CTS to support Toyota’s needs. Meanwhile, we are also working with them to test effective modifications to existing pedals in the field that will be rolled out as quickly as possible.

“We commend CTS for working diligently and collaboratively to find a solution to the potential problem and in developing a new design,” said Chris Nielsen, TEMA’s Vice President of Purchasing. “CTS is a long-term and valued supplier to us.”




CTS comments on Toyota accelerator pedal recall

RP news wires
Tags: manufacturing
CTS Corporation on January 27 provided comments on Toyota’s recent accelerator pedal recall. As previously announced by Toyota, the January 21 voluntary recall results from what Toyota described as “a rare set of conditions which may cause the accelerator pedal to become harder to depress, slower to return or, in the worst case, stuck in a partially depressed position.” Toyota said this condition “is rare and occurs gradually over a period of time.”
“As has been publicly stated by Toyota, we have no knowledge of any accidents or injuries that have resulted from this rare potential condition,” the company said in a press release. “Based on information that Toyota has provided us, we are aware of fewer than a dozen instances where this condition has occurred, and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition. As Toyota stated, this recall is different from and unrelated to the ‘sudden, unintended acceleration issue’ which was the subject of the November 2009 Toyota recall. In the November recall, the pedals in Toyota models dated back to model year 2002. CTS became a pedal supplier in 2005. Accordingly, our products are not implicated by the November 2009 recall. The products we supply to Toyota, including the pedals covered by the recent recall, have been manufactured to Toyota’s design specifications.
“Toyota is a small, but important, customer of CTS, representing approximately 3 percent of our annual sales. CTS has been actively working with Toyota for awhile to develop a new pedal to meet tougher specifications from Toyota. The newly designed pedal is now tested and parts are beginning to ship to some Toyota factories.”

About CTS
CTS is a leading designer and manufacturer of electronic components and sensors and a provider of electronics manufacturing services (EMS) to OEMs in the automotive, communications, medical, defense and aerospace, industrial and computer markets. CTS manufactures products in North America, Europe and Asia
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:07 PM   #91
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Maybe it is training from previous experience, but I have all my kids and wife practice throwing the trans into neutral if ever the throttle feels wrong. I saw a 80 year old man drive into a gas station pump, got his pedals mixed up many years ago. All of our vehicles have a console shift and and one click away from total control. It is the main reason I bought the f150 lariat.

I used to hold the throttle down as the kids were learning to drive and told them do not worry about the screaming engine( usually goes into rev limiter mode). With by wire, well computers just plain mess up anytime.


For a trained law enforcement office not to know this procedure is incredible. All kinds of reasons for a throttle to mess up. Neutral is one click away.
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:12 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Considering the type of throttle used in the newer cars it is most likely electrical.

I had originally suggested it was electrical but in the CPU just because I thought the built in redundancy used in this type of pedal would preclude a failure there.

It has been stated that the Company supplying the pedals in American but it is not clear where the pedals are made. Odd that Ford is have the same problem with their Chinese production.
We will find out.....

LEXUS - Electronic Throttle Control System with Intelligence (ETCS-i)

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/2003/4run...-fe_etcs-i.pdf
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:14 PM   #93
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Quote:
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Dunno aboot that: most modern cars lose braking and the steering can lock when you do that.

Try it at REAL low speed first, eh?
that's incorrect... you loose the power assist part of the braking, not all, you just have to push quite a bit harder...

your steering will only lock if you turn the car off all the way, go one click to the left you still be able to steer...

not sure about those button-instead-of-key-cars
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:37 PM   #94
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i am sorry for the loss of in life regardless the circumstances.

however our society is turning into a no-fault heaven - take responsibility for your actions... it's not my fault my mortgage payment ballooned on my neg-arm 1% intro rate loan... it's not my fault i didn't maintain my car properly - no one told me... it's not my fault i ran my credit card up to it's limit - i didn't know i had to pay it off... it's not my fault i lost my job - it's the president... it's not my fault i fried my cat in the micro wave... it's not my fault... it's the banks, the big companies, the president or god...

remember the guy mowing down santa monica farmers market injuring and killing who knows how many? i think he walked away with a slap on the wrist...

i'm not saying toyota has no fault in this or other accidents... but proper maintance and education could have most likley avoided most of these accidents... they have time to call 911 but not to shift to neutral or turn the car off? i guess sadly there is no common sense anymore...

i got my first drivers license in germany... i had to be 18, had to take lessons - on and off the road - for many hours. The driving tests were so tough that no-one would be laughing at you if you'd fail the first time around...
here you can drive with daddy next to you when you are 15... and pass a test with an IQ of 60 and driving one time around the block... and the next day you are allowed to drive a 7 1/2 ton truck... (and don't get me started how easy it is to get a class A license here...)

it's toyota's fault...

again, i am very sorry for any loss of life and anyone who got injured - no matter the cause or circumstances
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:22 PM   #95
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I dunno. Read this on the Beeb.
As I set off from my driveway, I touched the accelerator and the car shot out forward. I was lucky I didn't crash into my neighbour's car.

I should probably have stopped driving right then, but I didn't. I thought: 'The trouble will probably go away if I drive on a bit'.

I carried on, but the car kept racing forward every time I touched the accelerator.
I was lucky, very lucky in fact - I could have killed someone

As I came round a left turn, the car lurched forward like a Formula 1 vehicle.
The corrosion story doesn't make sense - California and Texas accidents appear to have been blamed on corrosion, but those aren't salty states. It's all very very strange.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:11 PM   #96
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Toyota is shipping new style accelerator pedals to dealers as of Friday 1/28/10, sticky spring due to condensation.

My thoughts, pedal can hang at an angle that catches floor map not secured by floormat retainers (hooks), (checked my brothers new Venza and dealer forgot to install them with mats, naughty, naughty).

If you have a Toyota make sure the mats clear the pedal and are in place with the retainer hooks, they may be in your glove box.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:22 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by arcamedies View Post
Toyota is shipping new style accelerator pedals to dealers as of Friday 1/28/10, sticky spring due to condensation.

My thoughts, pedal can hang at an angle that catches floor map not secured by floormat retainers (hooks), (checked my brothers new Venza and dealer forgot to install them with mats, naughty, naughty).

If you have a Toyota make sure the mats clear the pedal and are in place with the retainer hooks, they may be in your glove box.


Found this on a Toyoda forum:

To start with:
1) Electronic Feedback loop controls are not present. Whenever the brake pedals are depressed, the ECU must monitor the engine speed and vehicle speed. If the speeds have not been reduced, the ECU must cut out the following:
i) ignition to the coils.
ii) fuel cuts to the injectors
iii) combination of ignition and fuel cuts.
Toyota ECU fails to include i,ii, and iii. The domestic American cars have these safety feedback control systems built in.

By not it is clear to NHTSA that the failure is not the floormats since 4 more people died in their 2008 Toyota Avalon in Texas; their floormats was in their car's trunk as dictated by Toyota.

The gas pedal contains a redundant (dual) throttle position sensor also know as a variable resistor type element. As the throttle moves, the return voltage changes and this feedback is send to the ECU. The ECU then applies the voltage to the Drive by wire throttle motor/servo at the throttle body. The Throttle body has a throttle position sensor also to let the ECU know what position it is at. It is well known among mechanics worldwide (Asia, Europe, and South America) that the throttle position sensors at the pedals have been failing on the majority of Toyota vehicles, yet Toyota never did anything about it. Also, stick servo/throttle motors on Toyotas are nothing new. Toyota simply refused to make changes the last 10 years.

It would be quite risky for anyone to drive these Toyota cars without the feedback loop control software designed and implemented on the Toyotas. The electrical circuits and components must also be redesigned. All this could take years. Time is not on Toyota's side.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:47 AM   #98
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Here's a picture of the dash on one of my hot rods. The knob between the speedo and volt meter is an ignition off on and starter button. A hidden battery disconnect switch is also part of the deal along with double linkage return springs. The car is turned off instantly by pushing that knob in. Not sure if it is Lexis or Lincoln, but the starter off/on button needs to be held in for three seconds to stop the engine.

The off/on/start buttons I use cost $26.00 retail and are bullet proof and been around 50 plus years. So, is drive by wire really progress and what does it really do to make cars/trucks better?
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