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Old 01-26-2010, 09:53 PM   #29
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Are these cars equipped w/ drive-by-wire systems or mechanical throttles?

I wondering if this might be a software issue rather than a mechanical problem....

- Bart
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:10 PM   #30
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Are these cars equipped w/ drive-by-wire systems or mechanical throttles?

I wondering if this might be a software issue rather than a mechanical problem....

- Bart
I'd guess that most cars with some kind of vehicle stability control have drive-by-wire throttles--and I've wondered the same thing.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:42 PM   #31
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There is something going on. Toyota seems to be focused on one supplier. I don't know if they supply Europe as well, but Toyota appears to be considering expanding the recall: Bloomberg article

There's been talk of corrosion, but the off duty officer was in southern California and that's a puzzler.

I've also read that in the Lexus there's a manual shift gate that is not terribly well marked, and could be mistaken for "N." Additionally, the ignition is keyless, and won't shut off unless you hold the button for three solid seconds IIRC. I might have the details wrong, but that's what I got from the police officer accident story.

I don't particularly like Toyota, but nobody would really wish this on them.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:11 AM   #32
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Airplanes are routinely grounded for safety issues. Good for Toyota. We have had two trouble-free trucks. Also had Audi's after the sudden-acceleration hoax. Our '88 80 Quattro was the best car we ever owned. Sold it with 350k miles twelve years ago and it's still on the road, as is my son's '89 100. Later VW/Audi's have been electrical/electronic nightmares, for us. Thus our Toyotas.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:30 AM   #33
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Sad, but true.

Hi, the person who was driving the Toyota that crashed and killed everyone [including the passenger on the phone] was a CHP officer. [California Highway Patrol] And in my opinion had poor driving skills, especially for one in his job title. 911 "We're going over one hundred miles per hour and can't stop this car, help us"

I'm sorry for them, but..................PUT THE DAMN TRANS IN NEUTRAL AND IF THE ENGINE BLOWS UP, WHO CARES. TURN THE IGNITION KEY OFF, HOLD THE STEERING WHEEL WITH BOTH HANDS, AND USE BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE PEDAL AND PRESS REAL HARD AND DO NOT PUMP THE BRAKES. I'm yelling for a purpose, use some common sense.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:43 AM   #34
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Turn the key off.

Hi, in the late 60's and early 70's Chevrolets also had run away cars. The problem was the left motor mount would break, and on hard accelleration, the engine would lift up and bind the mechanical throttle linkage at full throttle. Your brakes cannot over power your engine, you have to turn it off.

Because of this, all companies started making unbreakable motor mounts; Yes the rubber still breaks but the mount can not come apart.

Ford used their brake light switch to cancel the cruise control. When the brake light switch failed, [with cruise control engaged] the harder you pressed on the brake pedal, the harder the engine accellerated trying to maintain it's pre-set speed. Turn the engine off.

Because of this, newer cars have a secondary switch or a vacuum dump valve. We learn the hard way some times.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:21 AM   #35
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Hi, in the late 60's and early 70's Chevrolets also had run away cars. The problem was the left motor mount would break, and on hard accelleration, the engine would lift up and bind the mechanical throttle linkage at full throttle. Your brakes cannot over power your engine, you have to turn it off.
I had one of those--1970 Nova. It was even scarier because not only was the cooling fan chewing away on the shroud, but one of the header pipes burned through a power steering pump hose, spraying burning power steering fluid from beneath the car. By the time I got it stopped and the hood open, the fire was out.
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:45 AM   #36
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Fly By Wire Throttle

I was wondering the same thing about the "fly by wire throttle. One manufacturer that I know of uses that setup. It allows the computer to position the engine RPM at the most economical position for the gas pedal position (power required), thus there is no direct link between the gas pedal and the throttle.
Is Toyota using this system?
Is any body else?
Now Detroit wants to make steering fly by wire.
Yes aircraft control surfaces (alerons, flaps, slats, rudders, elevators, stabilators and spoilers) are fly by wire but considering the amount of maintenance required by regulations usually these failures are caught prior to becoming real problems unless the airlines are not following procedures or are taking shortcuts.
Makes you go hmmmmm dosent it
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:45 AM   #37
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Also had Audi's after the sudden-acceleration hoax.
Don't talk about a hoax you know nothing about, is it a hoax that one of your vaunted Audi's ended up against our shop wall?, it was NOT a phantom concern, whatever the cause.

"The Audi 5000's sudden acceleration occurs more frequently than any auto defect ever investigated by the U.S. government. By 1987, one out of every 170 Audi 5000s had had a sudden acceleration accident, according to the Center For Auto Safety (CAS), a national consumer organization. By comparison, the infamous Firestone 500 tires were recalled with an accident rate of 1-in15,000"

Oh I get it...it was a conspiricy hoax, NTSB was responsible.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:58 AM   #38
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I was wondering the same thing about the "fly by wire throttle. One manufacturer that I know of uses that setup. It allows the computer to position the engine RPM at the most economical position for the gas pedal position (power required), thus there is no direct link between the gas pedal and the throttle.
Is Toyota using this system?
Is any body else?
Almost every manufacturer is using it. I did some work on (a very small part of developing) it back at GM in 1991, evaluating it on some Camaros and developing some test fixtures. That was a fun project...

What wasn't fun was figuring out a problem with an engine speed governor on medium-duty trucks - a similar sort of rare-but-happens issue to this sudden acceleration problem.

Given all of the issues that can crop up with linkages and cables, a electronic throttle control set up can eliminate lots of potential problems. Of course, that assumes other failsafes are in place.

Tom
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:56 AM   #39
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Toyota fans - Sorry to hear about your luck - stay safe out there.
I have drive by wire on my 97 VW Jetta TDI - I was worried about this in the beginning but have owned the car for 9 years now and it has not been a problem.
My friend with a late 90's f250 diesel had a drive by wire problem. Luckily his was only a flat spot on acceleration. Only $700 for the part.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:57 AM   #40
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Our 2002 Ford 7.3L Powerstroke diesel had its fly-by-wire throttle pedal replaced under recall. That said, fly-by-wire throttle is a lot easier to implement on a diesel, since there's no throttle plate.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:19 AM   #41
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Almost all car now use a Fly By Wire throttle. The throttle pedal has 3 rheostats that determine the position of the pedal and send that info to the CPU, computer. The computer in turns set the fuel ratio to the injectors electrically. There is almost no way the floor mat could have ever caused this problem. The statement was just a knee jerk reaction of some none engineering schooled public relations lawyer.

My guess is since the signal from the pedal is triple redundant the problem will most likely turn out to be software in the CPU.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:41 AM   #42
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My 2001 F350/7.3 Harvester Diesel is FLY-BY-WIRE Throttle. I have never been a fan of this set up. Even the big trucks out on the highways are fly-by-wire throttles,think about that,an 80k lb missile in the hands of todays inexperienced drivers,which most of em are,at todays driver turn over rate. ITs a bad feeling when you become disconnected from the throttle. It took me a while to get used to not being connected to that engine thru a throttle linkage that you feel thru your foot.
Still dont trust em~!
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