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Old 02-11-2010, 09:20 AM   #155
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This was stated before, but seems to have been immediately forgotten—the maker of the gas pedals is a US company and the plant was in Canada. Shall we blame Canada?

I went to the nearest Toyota dealer on Monday and was told they only had a few repair kits for Camrys and no others. I was also told I'd have to have a letter from Toyota to get a repair even though I can see "CTS" on the pedal assembly. No letter from Toyota yet.

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Old 02-11-2010, 09:24 AM   #156
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This was stated before, but seems to have been immediately forgotten—the maker of the gas pedals is a US company and the plant was in Canada. Shall we blame Canada?


Gene
Gene, I read that also, but the pedal manufacturer states that they built the pedals to Toyota's specifications.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:32 AM   #157
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Gene, I read that also, but the pedal manufacturer states that they built the pedals to Toyota's specifications.
Steve, that's true. Any part must meet a manufacturer's specs. Not answered is whether the part actually met those specs, and if not, why? The "Buy American" argument keeps getting wrapped around things, but it has been frequently noted no motor vehicle is entirely made of one country's parts. It's just not that simple. The Tundra was designed in Texas, so some of the high value jobs were there, not Japan. Maybe the Texans designed the gas pedal.

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Old 02-11-2010, 09:54 AM   #158
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Gene,

Now you are speculating on all sorts of things not known to us, and it seems as always, in defense of Toyota. Now, who's the cheerleader here?
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:08 AM   #159
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Gene,

Now you are speculating on all sorts of things not known to us, and it seems as always, in defense of Toyota. Now, who's the cheerleader here?
Steve, I'm just asking questions and saying simple answers to complex issues aren't usually good answers.

As for Toyota, I think, as I said before, they've handled all this very, very badly, and their arrogance shows. When they made bulletproof vehicles, they could afford to be arrogant, but arrogance eventually bites. They've become the whipping boy lately—is it because of their arrogance and because they became the biggest carmaker in the world? Last year's whipping boy was GM (Chrysler wasn't even worth whipping I guess).

The Toyotas we've had have all been excellent vehicles so far as reliability goes. How many people can say with their last 6 vehicles (probably 400-500,000 miles) they've averaged 2 things needing fixing per vehicle? They aren't perfect and I suppose the only way to get the perfect vehicle would be to have one built myself and that would require many millions of dollars. If reporting my positive experience makes me a cheerleader, so be it.

If the recalls keep coming and worse stuff is found out about Toyota, when it's time to buy another vehicle, we'll be looking at other brands too. It's pretty hard to find a company that hasn't had major recalls.

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Old 02-11-2010, 11:41 AM   #160
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It's pretty hard to find a company that hasn't had major recalls.

Gene
No doubt about that at all. Guess it all boils down to how many recalls, what the recalls are for, and how the manufacturer handles them.

From what I have seen, the recalls Toyota has had are not too serious, if they in fact have the problem nailed with the throttle pedal thing, but I've read some scepticism about that. Some that I have read insinuate there may be a software problem that Toyota is either overlooking, or trying to cover up. If this turns out to be the case, it is my opinion their immage will be seriously tarnished.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:31 PM   #161
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Survey: Buyers shy away from Toyota

Survey: Buyers shy away from Toyota - Yahoo! News
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:35 PM   #162
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Steve, I heard yesterday on NPR that there were more than 1,000 complaints about involuntary acceleration on Toyotas that have not been recalled. This makes me nervous. The software story keeps showing up, but I suspect that is also speculation. But it is logical that if Toyotas without the CTS pedal are accelerating, it isn't the CTS pedal. Are the other pedals the same design? Has anyone dissecting the software codes? There are too many questions none of us can answer.

The chances of anything happening are extremely small. I think the story I heard was 2,400 total complaints and total Toyotas in the past 10 years must be well over 10,000,000. But using those two numbers gives a 0.024% chance of happening. My math is probably wrong and the numbers I'm using are probably wrong too, but although the numbers look small, if your Toyota goes crazy, you are stuck. After you put it in neutral and turn off the ignition, then what? If it's not the pedal, it'll probably take quite a while to get enough info to find out it wasn't the pedal. What do you do on the Alaska Hwy?—a place I plan to be in June and July. I want to get this trip in this year because I think in 2011 gas prices will start go way up again.

Over the years it has been nice to not have to consider more than one brand. It makes it a lot easier to shop. Between us we've owned cars and trucks from many manufacturers (no Yugos) and we finally settled on Toyota. I thought that their ergonomics were bad until the late '90's. My hope is GM and Ford can catch up and pass Toyota on reliability soon. They are still lagging behind. While Toyota has been slipping slightly in recent years, and more so now, Ford and GM aren't filling the space that Toyota once occupied. It's true that some brands Ford and GM produce are quite high in the ratings, but the overall ratings of each company are still relatively low. Maybe we'll be driving Hyundai TV's some day—now that would be weird.

We're loyal to brands that serve us well and don't lie to us. If they don't work well, don't honor warranties and if they lie to us, we will tell everyone we can. For example, do not buy Price Pfister fixtures—once they made good stuff, but no longer, now they make poor quality equipment. Tell your friends.

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Old 02-11-2010, 12:46 PM   #163
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I went to the nearest Toyota dealer on Monday and was told they only had a few repair kits for Camrys and no others. I was also told I'd have to have a letter from Toyota to get a repair even though I can see "CTS" on the pedal assembly. No letter from Toyota yet.
Gene
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Did you mention that you are a Lawyer?
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:22 PM   #164
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Ok, Our 08' Sequoia has 46,000 miles with no problem YET!!!!!!

But here's my problem with the suck pedal thing... If your pedal sticks where you left it why would your car then climb to higher speeds. it would just stay where it its, the same speed. Unless you stomped on it to try and release it... Either why, put it in neutral put on the brakes and turn it off when you stop... Or pretend your a formula one driver.

Gene, the dealer in Delta said it was a bad bearing... And it would start to stick a little before it stuck permanently. Thats reassuring NOT>>>>

HowieE I mentioned My wife was a doctor in town and it better not stick on her, and then I come to find out he goes to see her. HUUMM guess I'm first in line for a replacement.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:49 PM   #165
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suck pedal thing...
Freudian slip?

A good point about: why would the speed keep increasing? Maybe it only happens when you floor it?

I don't get the bearing thing—never heard that before. I went to the same dealer and didn't see anyone I knew in the shop, so I talked to a new guy. The idea that it sticks a little before it sticks a lot has been publicized somewhere.

Did they tell you that you had to have a recall letter from Toyota before they'd do anything?

Howie, I don't use the lawyer thing unless I have to and then subtly because people resent it otherwise. They probably resent it anyway.

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Old 02-11-2010, 02:06 PM   #166
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Interviews, that I have seen, all report “accelerating” out of control. This is quite different than a “stuck” pedal and may in fact point to a software issue, not mechanical. The now famous 911 call by the off duty LEO certainly was a vivid and horrifying example of a car accelerating out of control, he was rapidly gaining speed.

The “fix” that Toyota has put out there, a small metal shim, used to pre load the spring and there fore increase the return force in the assembly, is as much of a joke as the infamous floor mat response.

Now we all like to think we are expert drivers, and would just “pop it into neutral” and coast to the side of the road. But even I don’t begin to imagine I have the experience and training that the LEO had in defensive driving techniques and his Family was killed!
I think we all imagine such an incident happening as we coast down a wide 4 lane highway with a broad shoulder to pull off, but the reality is a lot of these incidents are happening in crowded parking lots, etc.
How quickly do you really think you could react if, in the course of an average day, let’s say backing out of a parking space after Church on Sunday, all of a sudden your car rockets away while a young Family crosses behind you?
Or you let a Child on their bike across the road at a 4 way stop?
What if it happens then?
Serious stuff…
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #167
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The thing is, all of the new vehicles, no matter the manufacturer, are drive by wire, throttle controlled by the ECM. Then, in addition to that, the actual throttle is controlled by a servo.....basically a DC motor driven by the ECM, thru a series of gears.

Yea, sure, no chance for problems there!

Sorry folks, but I don't like the whole concept, and wish it was back to a simple cable and pedal/lever. At a minimum, the driver had actual control, and if it stuck, a little oil in the right place took care of the problem.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:58 PM   #168
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I've earned a living writing software for 20 years. The last 12 of which have been working on "embedded" systems. My instincts are screaming this is a software problem. The fact that when you touch the brake while going more than 10mph doesn't cancel the acceleration value from the pedal (just as it cancels the cruise control) tells me new software is on the way soon. Maybe from everyone making vehicles.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but a shim behind the pedal doesn't seem like it would fix a bearing problem.

Toyota Nears Repair for Accelerator - WSJ.com

This probably won't replace the current winner for the most expensive software bug (The Explosion of the Ariane 5), but it's going to be expensive.
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