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Old 04-30-2008, 05:23 PM   #85
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I too have been thinking about the status of camping long term and in my view it is going to stay the same or increase. What will take the "hit" is the long distance touring aspect of it in my view.

All types of travel are going up in relative proportion to RV'ing, so flying somewhere and renting a car is going up just as much if not more. People still want to get out and away from the house. Local campgrounds, nearby boon docking, etc. will increase and folks will stay in one spot for longer periods rather than hop from one CG to the next. There will be less travel type wear and tear on RV's so they probably won't be traded in as frequently, the same goes for TV's.

In discussing this issue with many of our camping friends they agree that this is just the start of them rediscovering the local area - in the neighborhood of two or three tanks of fuel outbound to get to a spot that is reasonably far enough away from home that they feel they are "away" from the cares of the day to day grind, but close enough that they can relax. This equates to anywhere from 500 to 1,000 miles which covers a lot of territory and isn't a big financial hit. Other benefits of this type of camping is that people will be using the CG facilities like pools and hot tubs more, and this might put pressure on CG's to keep upgrading their facilities. (Even just two tanks of fuel outbound is actually quite a ways away from home if you think about it.)

When gas hit the high water mark in the seventies and the eighties the only thing I changed from driving big block Chevelles and Corvettes and trucks was my driving habits and that made enough of a difference that life went on. While others were selling off their big block cars to buy Pintos and Chevettes and selling their MoHo's etc. we found some exceptional deals. It looks like this is going to be the case again where we can pick up some really nice highly optioned units for a lot less than we could have were fuel less costly.

I think when people really stop to think about it the vast majority of RV'ers stay within that 1,000 mile radius of home for the biggest part of their camping. They will keep on doing this - they'll just cut back on something else, learn new driving habits, or swallow the ugly pill and just get on with it.

Or that's my opinion.

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Old 05-08-2008, 06:21 PM   #86
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Our family is thinking about more of a 500 mile radius from home. This lets us get into the Ozarks, Smokies and the beach . We are planning to visit Greer's Ferry/Little Red river area next month for vacation and then back to Hot Springs in July.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:59 PM   #87
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maybe there will be Airstream times shares or hostels in the future?

units would cover small areas and you would drive to the unit of choice.

they could be put on flat bed railroad cars and tour the country.

but there will always be AIRSTREAMS!

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Old 05-08-2008, 08:36 PM   #88
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Like they used to . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
maybe there will be Airstream times shares or hostels in the future?

units would cover small areas and you would drive to the unit of choice.

they could be put on flat bed railroad cars and tour the country.

but there will always be AIRSTREAMS!

You mean railroad cars like this? YES! There will always be Airstreams.


(from the VAC website)

I don't know what the future holds. Changes in camping habits will based on each individual's perspective.

I checked my expenses for 13 days and 1850 miles of trailer travel (1450 miles towing) to include the WBCCI Cherry Blossom Rally, the WBCCI Shendandoah Valley Breakout Rally, and several days on the Virginia coast. My total cost for the trip was $1323. Of that $575 was gas (not diesel). Lodging including the rally fees totaled $353. Admittedly, with an Airstream I could have been more frugal like taken advantage of courtesy parking invitations, and overnighted in the Wal-mart lot instead of a campground. The remaining $395 was spent on dining, sightseeing, stuff I just "had to have", and so on. Again, an area I could reduce more cost if I really tried.

Thirteen days in of flying, car rental, hotels, and restaurant-only dining would have been way more than $1323. So, in my opinion, I think Airstreaming is still a bargin. However, with increasing prices I'm becoming more aware of expenditures, will consider fewer long trips and more close to home, and try to reduce my towing speed from 65 to 55 mph without getting run over or causing road rage.
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:00 PM   #89
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Major changes don't come unless we are forced to make them. That's why higher gas mileages have to be mandatory. And sustained high fuel prices and shortages will cause something to be done to make fuel efficient TV's.

Laws can be used to make this happen and gov't can invest in major change through tax credits, loans, etc. That makes sense because the overall costs to society of accelerating that change is less than letting things go to a crisis. Unfortunately the present administration is blind and their Congressional allies block just about anything that will lead to a coherent energy policy. The oil companies are running TV ads saying we have 60 years of oil and gas but they don't say what the cost of developing that is to society. I think the fine print is that that 60 years doesn't mean it will provide all of our energy needs, so we would still be dependent on other countries. And, all out development of those deposits only delays the inevitable and lets other countries lead the way while we get left behind.

I don't know what the breakthrough will be. Maybe some genius kid who is getting a PhD at 15 has begun to figure it out. I do know that when crisis comes, usually that is the only way we change. I wish our country's leadership had foresight, but they don't. I hope that if we see real change this November, that it will last and the lobbyists who couldn't care at all about anyone but themselves, will lose their clout and we can move forward.

If the national leadership doesn't deal with our energy and climate change problems, other will. A decade ago the US was the world leader in solar, now Germany is—they have a consistent policy to promote it, we don't. We could end up another spent and declining world power—I fear we are already well along that road.

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Old 05-09-2008, 08:15 AM   #90
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In 1997, congress OK'd drilling in ANWAR and Clinton killed it. There's a guy in Tucson that prides himself on the fact that he has stopped the construction of new refinery for 22 years. A windfall profits tax on oil companies will not produce a single drop of diesel or gasoline. In La Plata county, almost 70% of the property tax revenues were attributed to natural gas extraction. This year, that figure dropped to 60% and for the first time, my property taxes went UP. Too, have you checked the price of natural gas and propane lately?

While some are quick to blame the current administration for our energy woes, I'd rather blame well meaning environmentalists that don't understand the meaning of compromise. I suspect that Crawford Gene understands the costs of litigation better than most. I deeply resent outfits like the Sierra Club and others like them using the courts to get their point across. They use tax-exempt dollars to mount a lawsuit on an environmental issue. The cost of the litigation to the USFS or BLM includes bringing in retirees on a per diem basis to run the office while USFS/BLM staff take the time to provide paperwork for government lawyers defending their position.

For the record, the reported profits by Royal Dutch Shell amounted to a gross profit of about seven and a half percent. Out of that money, Shell has to pay taxes world wide plus pay out dividends to share holders. The press loves to take numbers out of context when it comes to oil company profits.

I suspect a lot of Airforum business owners would be hard pressed if their gross profits were only 7.5%. I have several trips planned this summer and I will use my Exxon dividends to pay for fuel!
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #91
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I was trying to point out that we need big changes in how we produce energy in this country and how difficult it is for people to accept and pursue change. The oil and gas industry and the administration are, in my opinion, among those who resist change.

If you believe drilling for oil and gas is the only answer it is easy to blame people who oppose wholesale drilling and the environmental effects of it. Environmental groups sue when laws are broken and often win—they even win in the federal courts where most of the judges were appointed by conservative presidents. The courts are there for dispute resolution and are open to anyone with a reasonable argument. Litigation is costly and that is unfortunate. However, the industry has a lot of money and the environmental groups have very little. The environmental groups lawyers are either pro bono volunteers or lawyers willing to work for very low salaries; the industry lawyers are highly paid and have relatively unlimited resources. When the government is sued for ignoring federal law, the fact that the administration has underfunded the public land agencies is the reason there aren't enough employees, not lawsuits.

I don't know the ins and outs of property tax revenues in La Plata County. I do know there is substantial evidence the natural gas producers in Colorado have been underreporting production so they don't have to pay the severance tax they owe.

So, Denis, we have different axes to grind. You must have a lot of Exxon stock to have enough dividends to travel very far since Exxon only pays 1.8%, less than the market average of 1.9%. 1,000 shares worth $89,000 this morning will only pay an annual dividend of $1,600. You might look into Canadian income trusts since those oil and gas companies pay a 10-15% dividend. For example Enerplus Resources of Alberta pays about $4,950 on an investment of $48,000 (10.5% on 1,000 shares). That would leave you with $40,000 to invest in something else using my 1,000 share example.

It's about change. Some other way to power TV's is needed. Gasoline is a very good source—it's fairly easy to transport and provides a lot of BTU's per volume. It used to be cheap, but those days are over. Getting more of it is going to be more and more expensive. Alternatives (methane, ethanol, hydrogen) have lots of problems and limits. I'm hoping for the breakthrough in batteries, but I've been hoping for that breakthrough for years. And then how can we generate enough electricity without destroying the environment or leaving enormous quantities of nuclear waste?

So, will airstreaming as we know it change? It has already changed. Since we don't have the answers yet, and we have as a society put off answering the questions, it will change more and it may not be pretty until the energy crisis is resolved. I don't know if I'll see the answer and I expect the upheaval will be difficult. This year I can go a lot further on those Enerplus dividends than if I owned Exxon, but I expect the distance will shorten, and I have to pay ever increasing health insurance premiums too.

Gene
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:06 PM   #92
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Many folks talk about slowing down to 65, or even 55. Have you checked the MAX towing speed in many states. Most in the south have a max of 55. Many others are 65. Not only will 55 save gas, it will be LEGAL in many states. The call and ticket is/are yours.
Most atlases have a chart with max/min speeds and some have a chart that shows how far behind your trailer you must be able to see in your rearview mirrors.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:14 PM   #93
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Now why is this liberal political point of view allowed to remain when I know if I rebutt this, which I could easily do, my post will be deleted and called political.

Do I still live in America? Have the government force us to do something???? What?????????
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:17 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
Now why is this liberal political point of view allowed to remain when I know if I rebutt this, which I could easily do, my post will be deleted and called political.

Do I still live in America? Have the government force us to do something???? What?????????
Help me understand something please. Since when is conserving fossil fuels a partisan issue? What makes it strictly and American issue?
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:21 PM   #95
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Conserving fossil fuels is not a partisan issue. Blaiming a certain group or administration for not only not conserving but perpetuating the problem is. So is blaiming them for ficticious man made global warming or climate change. Saying government should force us to do something is also a political point of view. You can't seriously believe those posts aren't political in nature with a decidedly liberal bent.

It also isn't exclusive to America, I didn't say it was. What had me wondering was the notion that we should become socialist which those views smacked of.

I threw up on my keyboard a little bit when I read that the gorvernment should inact more laws and force us to do something that further limits our freedoms.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:32 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmossyone
Now why is this liberal political point of view allowed to remain when I know if I rebutt this, which I could easily do, my post will be deleted and called political.
Do I still live in America? Have the government force us to do something???? What?????????

Just read the tag on your signature, mrmossyone... I agree with it:

"Different strokes for different folks!
I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein"


From what I've been reading in this thread, am not sure I could classify it as conservative or liberal. Just honest discussion on a topic that affects us all and thus far, we're all still feeling our way along with alot of uncertainty ahead.

Whenever we label people or discussions, we tend to draw a line in the sand... start using cliches. Loose sight of what we want to accomplish which here, is for all of us to enjoy our Airstreams.

So I guess instead of being a liberal or conservative, I'll be an Airstreamer.
Kumbaya, man...
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:35 PM   #97
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"I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein"

Well, Mr. Mossy, we agree on Robert Heinlein and his point about learning from debate. I didn't agree with Heinlein on some of his politics, but liked his science fiction.

I suggest you read up on the differences between liberal and socialist—they are profound.

I love your Forum name. It's clever and much better than the lame one I came up with. And congratulations on becoming a rivet master.

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Old 05-09-2008, 03:53 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon
Just read the tag on your signature, mrmossyone... I agree with it:

"Different strokes for different folks!
I never learned from a man who agreed with me.
Heinlein"

From what I've been reading in this thread, am not sure I could classify it as conservative or liberal. Just honest discussion on a topic that affects us all and thus far, we're all still feeling our way along with alot of uncertainty ahead.

Whenever we label people or discussions, we tend to draw a line in the sand... start using cliches. Loose sight of what we want to accomplish which here, is for all of us to enjoy our Airstreams.

So I guess instead of being a liberal or conservative, I'll be an Airstreamer.
Kumbaya, man...
Hey I'm all for this but in the past when I have tried to engage in good honest debate my posts were deleted while the other side of the issue was not. I have never ever sunk to personal attacks either, which has happened to me and yet I was still the one to be censored.

Now come on the laying of blame was decidedly partisan in nature. I love a good debate, what I don't like is one point of view to be unfairly censored and devalued.
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