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Old 12-06-2007, 07:41 PM   #43
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Drive 55!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn G
I'm not going to be appreciated for this next thought but when we had a 55 MPH federal law our nation used huge amounts less of fuel. This (reasonably) is magnified big time with RVs. If we have cafe standards, lower highways speeds and the enginuity (sp.?) that our nation has always had, and been proud of, I think we'll survive this just like we did everything before this. Keep the faith.

At 65 I get just under 12 mpg ... at 55 just under 15 mpg
Glenn:

I, for one, appreciate your thoughts and I think that it's high time we seriously consider returning to the 55 mph speed limit! We're already paying for the increased cost of fuel - as reflected in the higher cost of goods. A drastic reduction in overall fuel consumption would possibly result in a lower cost of fuel - which might offset the cost of the longer time in transit for the commercial truckers. We'll somehow manage to survive until we one day overcome our present dependence on fossil fuel - and, what the heck, it may even cut down on road rage, traffic deaths, and highway maintenance!
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracker
Glenn:
...the 55 mph speed limit ... may even cut down on road rage, traffic deaths, and highway maintenance!
I don't disagree about the speed limit, at least in principle, but the raw numbers of fatalities have decreased since the 55 limit went away. Adjust that on a per capita basis or a per-million mile basis and it's pretty impressive (something like 55000/year in the late 60's to 45000 in the mid 80's, to around 42000 lately).

One of the factors that seems to be at work was that a 55mph limit encouraged people to drive on secondary roads. So... why not a 100kph limit for federal highways? Although the long, tedious agonizing hours between Odessa Texas and Albuquerque aren't really helped by that, it seems a place to start.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:17 AM   #45
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Just a thought, but for the full timers out there who have bigger rigs and do burn more fuel, at least they don't have a house and have the impact on the environment that heating and cooling a conventional home entails, so I may give them a pass for the fuel they burn until somebody points out why I am wrong.

Million dollar rigs? If some guy can afford a million bucks or even half that much for a MH he isn't too worried about fuel costs except as a general nuisance. For every million dollar rig there is some cat out there with a private jet--now thats fuel.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSHED
I don't disagree about the speed limit, at least in principle, but the raw numbers of fatalities have decreased since the 55 limit went away. Adjust that on a per capita basis or a per-million mile basis and it's pretty impressive (something like 55000/year in the late 60's to 45000 in the mid 80's, to around 42000 lately).

One of the factors that seems to be at work was that a 55mph limit encouraged people to drive on secondary roads. So... why not a 100kph limit for federal highways? Although the long, tedious agonizing hours between Odessa Texas and Albuquerque aren't really helped by that, it seems a place to start.
There are a lot of other factors that lowered fatalities such as more seat belt wearers, safer autos, etc. But if 55 mph is pushing people onto secondary roads then the solution is simple. Reduce secondary road speed limits to 45-50 mph. Some of those roads are not comfortable at 55 mph. It would not bother me one bit. I love driving the secondary roads and am generally in no hurry when I drive them. In fact I would welcome the slower speeds. Unlike freeways there is just so much to see and slower speeds would be more enjoyable.

BTW, turbo diesel is the way to go. Great mileage and no loss of power in the altitudes. I'm loving it. I would welcome more diesel autos on the road. It would help mainstream stations in providing better fill-up facilities. Occasionally I am forced to fill up with one of those semi-truck stations with high speed discharge and no auto shutoff. It can be messy to start out from previous use and can get messier if you are not careful.

We rented a small Kia Sorrento SUV in England and put 1,500 miles on it. It was diesel but the stations and pumps were clean and not a problem. Kia does not sell that model with a diesel option in the states.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:18 AM   #47
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Well, yeah, Europe and the offshore islands such as GB do have lots of diesels. One of the downsides of this is the cities tend to smell a little oily, especially in winter when the wind isn't blowing.
Lower the speed limit? Good idea, but almost unenforcable. I remember talking to a German during the '73 oil crunch, as they had forbidden all non emergency driving on weekends as well as a speed limit. He said; "They can not do this on a long-term basis. Germany is too big, and our economy is based on long-distance driving." Not that it isn't a good idea, and not that it indeed will save fuel.
regards
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:36 AM   #48
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Ex-Nay on the 55 guys. It was bad thirty years ago and it's more so today. Time has value. The U.S. is a free society, not a socialist one. A person can voluntarily drive 40mph to save fuel on the backroads right now if they want. For those who want to pay a little more to save some time, that's the individual's choice.

Besides, there is no shortage of oil and there never was. The high prices we're seeing are from speculator greed. Pure and simple. They can do the same thing with hydrogen, vegetable oil, uranium, or coal. Yeah, I know, not very pleasant to ponder.

The Russians have taught for over fifty years that "fossil fuel" is a lie, that oil comes from the earth below the crust layer, and that it is thermodyamically impossible to convert a dead animal into oil. Read the science before you scoff...their argument makes a lot of sense.

We should be good stewards of the planet. But society should not have to take a huge step backwards to satiate the greed of a guy on Wall Street. There has to be a better answer.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:25 AM   #49
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Here's Bob Lutz's take on the energy bill, I suspect that Ford and Chrysler will probably voice similar opinions:

GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz chats with AutoWeek Editorial Director Keith Crain.

By RICK KRANZ, AUTOMOTIVE NEWS





A massive change to General Motors’ future product plans is expected if the 35-mpg CAFE fleet average favored by Congress is enacted into law.

“The minute we have confirmation of the 35-mpg rule, that is the point where we go through all of our forward product plans and probably introduce, frankly, massive restructuring of the product plan,” said GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. “A 35-mpg fleet mix means there is a bunch of stuff out there that is going to have to be 40 and 50 mpg.”

The House bill passed last month calls for a 35-mpg nationwide fleet average by 2020, roughly a 40 percent increase from today’s CAFE standard. A key provision allows an automaker to trade credits between its car and truck fleets.

“We will have to take a look at everything because we’re going to have to come up with a plan which gets us to 2015, 2017, gets us part of the way there, and with clarity on how we’re going to get the rest,” said Lutz, interviewed Dec. 5 at a Saturn event in San Diego. “Then we will have to start raising prices as we introduce the new technology.”

He estimated a $6,000 to $7,000 increase in the price of vehicles requiring new technology. GM is offering a two-mode hybrid power system in the 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon, although it has not said what the price of the option will be.

It is developing a series hybrid vehicle based on the Chevrolet Volt concept that would run solely on electric power, recharged by a small gasoline engine. A production version is expected to arrive in 2010.

Earlier this year, many industry figures said the 35-mpg CAFE plan would hurt automakers, suppliers and workers. But the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, of which GM is a member, endorsed the House bill.

“I think one of the reasons that everybody said, ‘Yeah, yeah, we’re in agreement with this,’ is because anything, even a horrible alternative, is better than the constant uncertainty,” he said.

While such vehicles as 2008 Saturn Astra, which goes on sale later this month, gets 32 mpg on the highway and could be tweaked to reach 35 mpg, he said “there is no way that we’re going to get pickups and sport utilities to anywhere close to 35 mpg.” The two-wheel-drive Tahoe with a two-mode hybrid system gets 21 mpg city/22 mpg highway.

Lutz said it is impossible for GM’s Lambda-based crossovers, such as the Buick Enclave, to achieve 35 mpg, he said. GM’s plans for larger rear-wheel-drive vehicles like a Chevrolet Impala replacement remain uncertain, Lutz said.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:56 PM   #50
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Traffic fatalities went down dramaticaly when we went to 55 mph. Death rates increase at high speed. Air bags etc. slowed the trend.

We have the greatest trailor thats ever been manufactured. Iconic like Martin, Levis, Stetson, Cadillac and Indian. Enjoy the road the asthetics and the experiance. Thats what I think streamin' is. It's not just a motel room with wheels. It's more like savoring a fine wine or having a great meal.
You probably would not own an Airstream if you were tastless.
I enjoy America. I love the land and don't want to blow through it like it dosn't matter.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:31 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Hunt
For every million dollar rig there is some cat out there with a private jet--now thats fuel.
The Hawker 700 jet that my company owns uses ~210 gph of Jet-A (basically kerosene/diesel fuel) at cruise. At ~$4/gal thats $840/hour for fuel! Of course it travels at 500 mph, but it's only 2.4 mpg.

My private plane, an old Beech Debonair, burns 13 gph of avgas. At about $4/gal thats $52/hour at 170 mph, or 13 mpg.

Towing my Airstream Safari 25' trailer with an F150 gets about 12 mpg.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:27 PM   #52
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, a barrel of crude contains so many gallons of refined gasoline and so many gallons of refined diesel. You can boil a few more gallons of diesel down into gasoline out of that barrel using catalyst, but you can't really go backward and "de-refine" gasoline into diesel.

So, under this model, if we all switched to diesels in this country wouldn't we see a shortage (perceived or real) of diesel and a sufficient amount of gasoline kind of like we used to see a surplus of diesel but no excess of gasoline?

So is diesel really our future?
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn G
Traffic fatalities went down dramaticaly when we went to 55 mph. Death rates increase at high speed. Air bags etc. slowed the trend.

We have the greatest trailor thats ever been manufactured. Iconic like Martin, Levis, Stetson, Cadillac and Indian. Enjoy the road the asthetics and the experiance. Thats what I think streamin' is. It's not just a motel room with wheels. It's more like savoring a fine wine or having a great meal.
You probably would not own an Airstream if you were tastless.
I enjoy America. I love the land and don't want to blow through it like it dosn't matter.
That doesn't mean others should who think differently should have to suffer, you can drive slow now if you want. Get in the slow lane set the cruise on 55 and enjoy. More efficient traffic flow helps to reduce crashes before you need the airbags and sometimes more speed helps to ensure better traffic flow. This is still kinda pointless, if you don't feel as safe driving 70 as 55 then just drive 55... in the slow lane please, but don't limit someone who feels every bit as safe and confident at 70 as they do at 55. Personal responsibility.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:21 PM   #54
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Diesel

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Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

So is diesel really our future?
Been waiting for G.M. to offer the Dura-max in the Burb, would like

to replace the 7.4 "95".

But how do you rationalize the switch when diesel is $3.85 per and gas

is $3.24. Looks like we'll keep the old girl til she drops..........
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:31 PM   #55
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1. Most of the Nevada crude oil is heavy nasty stuff, makes better road asphalt and diesel than gasoline. Which is what we need in Nevada, a lot of long road and diesel. You have to ship that stuff out of the ground before it gets cold or you can use a flat bed truck then to move it.

2. If diesel is $3.84 and gas is $3.24; and my chevy 3500 with gas engine gets 14mph (I don't say 15 anymore); I need 3.84/3.24 = 1.19 times better fuel mileage to break even with diesel= 16.6 mpg. Most of the folks I talk to about their diesels say they get 20 or 22 mpg. Decrease that by 20% brag, thats 17.6 mpg, still better than my old gas truck. Draw back is the $$$$ to get the diesel engine, and the 10 quarts of oil per oil change, and the coldd weather fuel conditioner, and. But I'm definately considering it, at 217K miles on the chevy 3500. Is there a diesel out there that would pull the 31 foot Silver Dragon that isn't 5 foot tall at the bed and doesn't take haulpak tires? Dang, I have to put stuff in and out of the bed a hunnert times a day.
Perry
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Old 01-07-2008, 09:39 PM   #56
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Right now I believe the sale of diesels vehicles is dead in the water. Why would anyone want to purchase a diesel and pay extra for the fuel inaddition to a penality of a nickle to 41 cent per gallon for using a credit card. There is an Exon station near my home on IH-10 where the cash price of diesel is 3.18 and the credit price is 3.59. That's 41 cents per gallon differance. I am seeing more stations giving a discount for cash sales of diesel only. Most people don't travel around with hundreds of dollas in cash. I for one like to hold on to my cash and use my green card.

I drive a diesel and think it is the finest vehicle that I have ever owned. Nothing pulls a trailer like a diesel. I do get better mileage that my gasoline counterpart pulling a trailer. Last year I averaged 14.5 mpg on a 11,000 mile trip towing and not towing. Thats not bad for a 3/4 ton vehicle.

I'm not an expert on fuels but I can't help but think we are being taken to the cleaners by the oil companies. Look at the record profits they post each year.
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