The Airstream Scam Revealed

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by tphan

Help us all understand this, please: you falsified a document that showed you were paying for something. Why?
What proof did you have, at the time, that the seller was trying to rip you off?
Who initiated charges against you- the seller?
Why did the courts ignore the "fact" that the "seller" was a con-artist intent on robbing you, and then order you to pay this thief for goods you had not, and still have not, received from him/her?
In short, how is non-payment for a non-existent or mis-represented, fraudulent item a taxable transaction?
And are you saying that foreign Craigslist scam artists could sue, and win, in a US court, for faked payment via wire transfer for an item that the scammer neither owns nor will deliver?
Thanks for your help in understanding this complicated legal issue.

Heck, I wish I understood it all so I could explain it better! It was almost twenty years ago. Craigslist didn't even exist back then. At the time, I responded to a listing for a used automobile, in a newspaper classified ad. I was trying to bait a person I had sufficient reason to believe was running a scam, similar to what has been described in this thread, and took it a step too far. The guy I was baiting proved to be a real con man; he ended up going to prison about a year later for running the same scam against someone who actually paid him real money for a nonexistent automobile.

I will not further discuss the details of my case. I do not enjoy reliving that particular experience. I mentioned it for one reason only, to warn other people who might try to bait scammers to NOT bait scammers! Report them to the FBI and let it go.

[r carl]

Should not have made that fake payment with your real name i guess.....

[Sodbust]

My grandfather was a young boy here in the High Plains of Kansas while everyone still packed a gun everywhere and all the time.. He said people were much more polite,, and honest back then..

MMMmmmm?

Sodbust

[tphan]

Thanks, Protag- I think your overall advice is sensible, especially regarding sending or wiring any kind of fraudulent funds, or signing any kind of contract to purchase when your intent is otherwise. I think most people bait scammers to have a little fun, waste their time, and try to glean some information that may help in their apprehension. But thanks for your warning.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by Sodbust

My grandfather was a young boy here in the High Plains of Kansas while everyone still packed a gun everywhere and all the time.. He said people were much more polite,, and honest back then..

MMMmmmm?

Sodbust

I seen it end in the 70s.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by r carl

Should not have made that fake payment with your real name i guess.....

Or a real address. Or a real anything. The point is, shouldn't have done it at all.

I'm glad the guy I baited was eventually caught, but truth be told, my baiting had nothing whatsoever to do with his arrest or conviction.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

That's right, mock my pain. You can get away with murder if you have the right lawyers, but there's no way to beat the rap when a taxable transaction is on the line.



The Federal court. No idea what they actually did with the money, but the judge SAID it would go to the other party.

Pro', I had no intent to mock your pain. Not a very good attempt at humor I'm afraid. I'm sorry I upset you.

It is difficult to understand this. It seems it may have something to do with more than not paying for a nonexistent object. As the facts were originally stated, I could not imagine how any lawyer could lose. It starts to sound like a tax case and that brings it to a very different place where falsifying documents is fraud. How money could go to the "other party" doesn't tell who the other party was—IRS? I know you don't want to continue with this and unfortunately the facts are so curious it is hard to not wonder what this is all about.

At least we agree it is best to report a scam when we discover it.

Gene

[Brat]

Buyer beware!
If the price is too good to be true, it probably is.

I have been looking for a Bambi for quite a while.

Saw a 2013 Bambi listed for $28,000 on Autotrader DOT ca in Etobicoke Ontario and thought my dreams had come true.

google searched on the VIN from the ad 1STVRTF10DJ528071
and found it listed across Canada and the US to various owners.

When asked for details the scammer replied with alias
Patrick Willson
patrickw7009 AT aol DOT com

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by Brat

Saw a 2013 Bambi listed for $28,000 on Autotrader DOT ca in Etobicoke Ontario and thought my dreams had come true.

You could have told him that a local guy you know from the Air Forums was ready to pick it up for you and pay cash upon inspection - I'm 15 minutes from Etobicoke.

[Brat]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

You could have told him that a local guy you know from the Air Forums was ready to pick it up for you and pay cash upon inspection - I'm 15 minutes from Etobicoke.

Would have loved to but I just reported it to autotrader instead.

I despise scammers but I also don't want to get myself mixed up in anything.

While fraud happens all the time, I guess what really bugs me about this one is that all the real airstream owners I have read posts from, and gotten advice from, have all been such nice people. I just had to post something about this scammer because his actions are so far from what I have experienced.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Brat

Would have loved to but I just reported it to autotrader instead.

I despise scammers but I also don't want to get myself mixed up in anything.

While fraud happens all the time, I guess what really bugs me about this one is that all the real airstream owners I have read posts from, and gotten advice from, have all been such nice people. I just had to post something about this scammer because his actions are so far from what I have experienced.

You didn't miss anything... either they would have ignored you altogether, or suddenly the story would become "Oh, the trailer is in storage with <insert escrow service> and will be delivered to you for the listed price, you'll have <X> days to inspect it and if you don't want it they'll refund all your money and come pick it up for free." That's the usual line of crap offered by these scammers when you want to see the goods before sending money.

[Skater]

Originally Posted by Brat

While fraud happens all the time, I guess what really bugs me about this one is that all the real airstream owners I have read posts from, and gotten advice from, have all been such nice people. I just had to post something about this scammer because his actions are so far from what I have experienced.

It's not about the Airstream. They probably run dozens of these scams all the time, on a bunch of different products - cell phones, televisions, cameras, cars, anything that is fairly common (and thus relatively difficult to pin down to a specific copy - Faberge Eggs, for example, probably wouldn't work that well). We're attuned to Airstreams for obvious reasons, but there are dozens of these scams floating around CL all the time in a bunch of the for sale forums, I'm sure.

I hadn't read this thread before, and I'm sorry about your experience, Protagonist. The ruling against you probably has to do with not wanting people to take matters into their own hands - if it's a scam, the police and courts should be dealing with it, just like any other crime.

[Quetzalogic]

A couple years later, and this scam is still going on. I saw a too-good-to-be-true Airstream on the Seattle CL and got this response:

Hello there,

Thanks for showing interest in buying my 2004 Airstream 25ft International CCD, the camper is in excellent condition, no need additional repairs, no scratches, dings, rust, special marks whatsoever. The interior is in great shape. All services are up to date and never involved in any accidents. I'm selling it because I am in the Army and I will be deployed in Afghanistan with my platoon replacing the troops scheduled to come home. I don't want it to get old in my garage. The price is low ($3,000 including delivery to your home address) because I need to sell it before October 30st. The camper is here with me in Boise, ID in the military base and in case you want to buy it our Military Logistic Department will take care of delivery. Please let me know if you have any more questions and I will answer with pleasure.

Thank you!
Sgt. Jenna Jefferson

"Jenna" might've had an operation since she was "Lance", but she's still copy-pasting the same scam.

[Becky B.]

I've been around the block a few times with AS scammers. I have a sick sense of humor & like to toy with them. But I've encountered a couple of VERY brazen ones lately. One of them had a listing on Ebay for a pristine Bambi for some song of a price, and the other was listed here on the Airforums just yesterday selling a pristine Caravel for $4000. In the time I phoned the listed number & the return text, the listing was pulled from Airforums. I responded to both listings & told them I needed to speak to a PERSON, not a text or email. Low & behold, they both phoned me. Surprise....they both had very thick accents. The one that was listed on the Airforums phoned me after I texted him & told him to forget it, since the listing was pulled. He seemed to be put out that I didn't give him a chance. After all, I didn't need to put any money toward him, just money in an escrow. Problem is, if you put money in the escrow, both parties need to end the payment to stop it. So, they won't stop it & your money will be gone. This guy's name was Paul Browne....really?? With an Indian accent.....Paul Browne?? Well, just sayin'.....they're getting more & more brazen...giving addresses where they are located, all their stories of brothers needing surgery & having to sell the trailer, acting insulted that you think it may be a scam.....AND IT IS!! That's my story & I'm sticking to it! :-)

[cwf]

Yeah.. I had a similar one... told him, "great, I am around the corner from you right now. I will be there in 5 minutes to view the camper"... hello... uh, hello.. no one there??? gee.. how rude.. he hung up..!

[coyoterun]

Another one tonight on Dallas CL: 2004 Airstream camper RV Travel Camping trailer Coach
The AS is in Grand Prairie, TX but the phone number is Clarkson, NE? Called it and got voicemail.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Thank you for posting this "thread". ...
That's when I came across this thread and am extremely greatful .
...

Yes, I second that motion - thank you and I wish I had noticed this thread sooner. I had NO IDEA this scamming problem was as large as it is until my husband actually found our Airstream Interstate on the internet for sale by a scammer. I don't mean any old Interstate - I mean OUR Interstate, the same vehicle for which we have clear title.

A month after I reported the scammer to the FBI, we are still seeing brand new scam ads appearing for the sale of our vehicle. In the beginning we did a little bit of scambaiting, but kinda gave up on it because I wasn't sure what we would be accomplishing.

Anyway, I wrote about it with some avoidance tips here for anyone who is interested:

THE INTERSTATE BLOG: AN AIRSTREAM INTERSTATE SALES SCAM

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Anyway, I wrote about it with some avoidance tips here for anyone who is interested:

THE INTERSTATE BLOG: AN AIRSTREAM INTERSTATE SALES SCAM

Nice write up!

As an aside folks, there is a report problem ad function on all AIR ads. If you see something that seems amiss please use it. Airstreams are cool and scammers know this. AIRforums members are some of the most educated buyers out there and have been a great help spotting problems. Keep up the good work!

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by Jammer

::shrug:: Scambaiting is a dangerous game, Mora, both from a standpoint of your own physical safety and in that it leaves you open to fraud charges. It's far from clear to me that there is any benefit to anyone aside from whatever possible entertainment value there may be.

FRAUD charges.. that funny.. how do you think a scammer is going to be able to proceed with fraud charges.. how can (he) prove you are frauding him and not him frauding you.. might not be a issue for him MORA i would guess.

I say if you can keep the scumbags attentions for any length of time you are doing a good thing.

another site to check out.. 419 Eater - The largest scambaiting community on the planet! some of the stuff is too funny to comprehend.

[Wendyarnold]

This is still going on FYI. Here is here listing. This time she says her name is Tabitha Gaines and is in the military to be deployed. Sickening. https://lafayette.craigslist.org/rvd/4843768341.html