Anti-lock [disc] brakes on a combination vehicle are a night & day difference. NHTSA mandated them on tractor-trailers years ago. I cannot begin to tell you what a difference they make . . and they do, statistically.
When we buy into the misleading arguments loved by corporate attorneys (always looking to gum up the works and slow change to decades versus a year or two) we forget that some things are obvious, and better.
Platinum exhaust catalysts were invented in 1957 . . took nearly 20-years to be made standard. Same for airbags. Ask our company driver in a recent near-70/mph head-on collision with another semi if, having walked away how he'd feel about the lack of three-point belts and airbags if such were not mandated.
The goal is road safety. For a family vehicle pulling a travel trailer we know that a lightweight, aerodynamic, low ground clearanc and low center-of-gravity design with independent suspension is more likely to remain up-right and lane-centered . . in a straight line with the tow vehicle. The correct brakes on both vehicles makes this more likely yet no matter the difficulties faced.
I seen several in here mention about the tankless hot water heaters, AS tried that already in the late 90's. A few lawsuits over people getting burned by steam cause they turned on the hot water with no water in the system yet and just air, not to mention the major cost that AS ended up paying to remove all those systems and retro fit a water tank. I have one of those trailers and the previous owners who ordered the trailer new had AS remove the tankless heater and install a water tank at no cost to the owners. I have met a few that had that option and also had it removed because of constant expense of repairs as they failed on a regular basis, so I don't see AS ever stepping back into that quick sand again.
As far as outside entertainment NO NO NO and I hope that is loud enough voice from me, 2 years ago I had entertained that same idea as I like to either catch the news or listen to a little music in the mornings while I wait for everyone else to get up (I am an early riser) anyways there was a mid 50's couple (who thought they was 18 and dressed like that), and I laughed until my side hurt, who parked next to us late one day later that night most of the night everyone got a treat to rap music, the kind where the thump rattles windows and tables from outside speakers. around midnight I politely asked to reduce the volume once I got them to answer the door, and was given some very colorful words as why not and what I could do. I left them alone before my temper took over and caused a major problem and went back to my camper. I had had enough at 2 am and was on my way out the door with a pair of wire cutters to silence the noise when just about the time I got as far as my vehicle the law showed up, much disturbance as you can imagine ended in the couple packing up and leaving with the stereos still near or at full volume.
Another time at a state park some got peeved at the noise ordinance turned on the stereo switched to outside speakers locked the trailer and left. For 2 days we had to listen to this, the campground could not unplug the trailer as they would have been liable for fridge goods, someone though did unplug the trailer and cut the power wire, but it still continued on bats which ran down by the end of the day thank god.
So as you can see no outside electronics for me and I wish they would outlaw them.
Now I take my droid phone, plug in my headphones, turn on I-heart radio on my fav country station and enjoy my morning coffee until others are up moving around that I can talk to.
And I am afraid to say that you will not see any real improvements in the aluminum trailers because the parent company does not want them to out sell their trailers, so AS prices will stay high and quality low until one day someone buys AS away from the god awful adopted parents.
__________________
Sarge USAF
WBCCI- none
Good Sam Life Mem
NRA, DAV, PGR, DRA
I did not check through the entire thread but I have an idea to share with Airstream for the betterment of the product. So much attention is spent to sealing the outer shell from leaks, as it should be- who wants that kind of trouble. What if, instead of adding seals on the outside, etc an inner covering seal was used of some sort on the wall of the outer shell some kind of seamless material that would not react with aluminum and keep any moisture from ever passing through. At the bottom frame connection, perhaps a similar seal with a breathable membrane- to allow for condensation to escape and any moisture to drip out that made it through the outer shell to the seal. Such a plan would protect against leaks, deal with condensation and, help prevent floor rot.
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2022 Ford F150 PowerBoost Platinum w/7.2KW
We are undecided and considering a CampLite 21BHS. For roughly half the price of a similar-sized AS, they still manage an all-aluminum floor.
We're a little put off by stories of floor rot in AS models as little as 7 years old.
Sorry for the hijack, but I will start a thread on our continuing decision process.
That's ok, I am glad you posted. I do not think, from what I saw as a newbie when shopping myself, that Airstream is unique to leaks. I witnessed a slew of 5th wheels and trailers with musty interiors that would put your eyes out when entering a few years ago shopping used. The salesman wanted to show me the "bargains" but they were the leakers. I found leaks just walking through in the form of stains, etc. in ceiling and along the joints. None were Airstreams but all were nearly new. What I have found is that Airstream had some issues when they first started putting those wrap windows on, I believe in 2005 or so. There are reported issues with the windows from time to time. I would not be afraid of an Airstream though leaking any more than other brands. I learned that most others have those self destructing roofs good for about 10 years at most in average use then you have to replace the roof for $$$ or forfeit your trailer. The ONLY option I found FastEddieB was Galileo RV with its all fiberglass roof. I don't know what your investment strategy is but I would consider roof life. My father and I go back and forth on these things as he has begun to look at RVs too. He talks about how long he's got to live vs. durability, etc. we go round and round. I find it interesting that although Airstream has wood floors, more of them seem to still be around. I think much of it has to do with how you store it and maintenance. I just tried to pull information on the Galileo but cannot - another problem with startup RVs will they be there a few hears down the road?
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2022 Ford F150 PowerBoost Platinum w/7.2KW
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,226
No need for a tankless waterheater or outside speakers, but please Airstream make the following improvements:
1. a floor that won't rot
2. 3 stage converter
3. disc brakes
4. a fridge that cools in hot weather (include fans and a remote thermometer)
5. quiet AC.
6. top quality tires
New electronics is cheap. I just replaced the Sony radio in my 95 34'. I installed a Pioneer radio with cd, aux input and usb jack, and bluetooth to stream music from my Android phone. Easy installation and only $104 delivered from Amazon (DEH-X6600BT).
FastEddie- Rather than a new sob, spend the same money on a carefully selected used Airstream. You will be glad you did down the road.
No need for a tankless waterheater or outside speakers, but please Airstream make the following improvements:
1. a floor that won't rot
2. 3 stage converter
3. disc brakes
4. a fridge that cools in hot weather (include fans and a remote thermometer)
5. quiet AC.
6. top quality tires
New electronics is cheap. I just replaced the Sony radio in my 95 34'. I installed a Pioneer radio with cd, aux input and usb jack, and bluetooth to stream music from my Android phone. Easy installation and only $104 delivered from Amazon (DEH-X6600BT).
FastEddie- Rather than a new sob, spend the same money on a carefully selected used Airstream. You will be glad you did down the road.
Dan
X2.......Perfect recommendations.
I hope someone is paying attention in JC.
B
__________________
Looking for adventure in whatever comes our way.
No need for a tankless waterheater or outside speakers, but please Airstream make the following improvements:
1. a floor that won't rot
2. 3 stage converter 3. disc brakes
4. a fridge that cools in hot weather (include fans and a remote thermometer)
5. quiet AC.
6. top quality tires
New electronics is cheap. I just replaced the Sony radio in my 95 34'. I installed a Pioneer radio with cd, aux input and usb jack, and bluetooth to stream music from my Android phone. Easy installation and only $104 delivered from Amazon (DEH-X6600BT).
FastEddie- Rather than a new sob, spend the same money on a carefully selected used Airstream. You will be glad you did down the road.
Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrouper
X2.......Perfect recommendations.
I hope someone is paying attention in JC.
B
Hi, forget about disc brakes unless you can make them function and dependable like automotive disc brakes; So far your disc brake systems have been a huge failure. At least my drum brakes always work. Stopping better isn't good if it doesn't work every time.
__________________ Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, forget about disc brakes unless you can make them function and dependable like automotive disc brakes; So far your disc brake systems have been a huge failure. At least my drum brakes always work. Stopping better isn't good if it doesn't work every time.
Robert
I agree that disc brakes need to be reliable. They should be. The technology is here. It is a sad situation that the only premium trailer manufacturer, Airstream, does not even offer disc brakes as an option; They offer it as an after market conversion. What seems to be lacking is the consumer demand for disc brakes.
I guess that what also is lacking is competition for Airstream. What incentive do they have to offer disc brakes? None. Especially since reliability issues have cost them money in the past.
I am ready to order new axles for my Tradewind. I really do not want to install new axles with new electric drum brakes. If I do this then I am admitting that disc brakes are still not a viable reliable option. I don't think I can do this. We shall see.
I'm the original poster of this very cool thread and I'm gonna highjack it again.
It seems to me that there is an inherent flaw with wooden subflooring.
the question I have is why hasn't AS employed an alternative?
1. Cost?
2. No reasonable cost effective alternative?
3. Wood isn't a conductor of electricity and for some reason that's an issue.
And back on my topic, ...
So, when AS's were introduced as many years ago wasn't the inspiration of the shape and materials greatly influenced by Airplanes?
Yes I know AS's don't do stuff just because it's new but to improve. But think about it, ... back in the day from a camper perspective AS's were on the cutting edge of innovation.
IMHO, 'innovation', is/should be in the credo of every AS today as it was when they were first introduced.
After as long as the company has been in business the issue of floor rot ought to be the subject of campfire lore not active forum discussions....Certainly for the newer models.
We never here of a car having issues with rot from water leaking into the interior. I know I know, all you engineers are gonna say a trailer is NOT a car and I get that, ... but campers and motor vehicles share attributes. I just think that since it's a problem that apparantly can't be solved maybe AS, (or the camper industry as a whole), might wanna have a coffee with the autombile industry and ask, 'Hey, how did ya'll solve this leaking problem?
1957 30' Sovereign of the Road
1959 28' Ambassador
1949 24' Limited
Peru
, New York
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan
Robert
I agree that disc brakes need to be reliable. They should be. The technology is here. It is a sad situation that the only premium trailer manufacturer, Airstream, does not even offer disc brakes as an option; They offer it as an after market conversion. What seems to be lacking is the consumer demand for disc brakes.
I guess that what also is lacking is competition for Airstream. What incentive do they have to offer disc brakes? None. Especially since reliability issues have cost them money in the past.
I am ready to order new axles for my Tradewind. I really do not want to install new axles with new electric drum brakes. If I do this then I am admitting that disc brakes are still not a viable reliable option. I don't think I can do this. We shall see.
Dan
We have supplied a lot of axles with hydraulic disc brakes & electric drum brakes. Airstream's problems with disc brakes was not the disc brake assembly itself. The "electric over hydraulic" actuator was the problem. Most of these actuators have the ECM built into the actuator housing, so if there is an internal fluid leak, the ECM goes haywire, which is what happened to the "Actibrake" actuators that Airstream used. Actibrake ended up going bankrupt as a result of the issues & Airstream made good on the recalls. The sad thing about the recall was that they didn't just replace all of these actuators, instead they drilled a small hole in a certain part of the housing to see if there was internal leaking going on. If there was fluid in this area, they replaced the actuator with another brand, if there wasn't, they just plugged the hole & sent you on your way. When these actuators fail, they can leave you with no brakes at all & sometimes stuck on. Either way, not very safe. We have used the Heavy Duty "Brake-Rite" actuators on our custom installations & repairs. The nice thing about these actuators is that they have an external ECM, so fluid will never get anywhere near the ECM, during a failure. As the ECM is the normal thing to fail in any actuator, having it mounted externally makes it really easy for the novice to switch it out in the event of a failure. Some of my clients carry spare ECM's "just in case", but none have needed them, so I guess this brand & model is the way to go for reliability & simplicity.
Good luck with it,
Colin
Hi, Colin H; I'm glad that you found a great actuator for disc brakes. Early reports of failure included: caliper bolts loosening, caliper bolts breaking, flex lines kinking, flex lines being rubbed through by tires, flex lines were too short, locking up and not releasing, not working at all, delayed actions, fluid leaks, air in lines that were extremely difficult to remove, and only working at times. Most of this was caused by poor design and poor installation.
It seems that now that the actual disc brakes are good and you have found a good actuator, the only thing left is everything in between the two.
__________________ Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
1. Back up camera pre-wire, enabling installation of standard camera systems or even an option for one. Trying to do this after the fact is expensive, and backup cameras are now pretty cheap.
2. WiFi improvements, including hookups and external antenna to enable better reception.
3. AV hub near Blue ray player, and ability to upgrade to surround sound.
4. Tankless hot water heater.
If I can complement the point #2
2a. CAT6e (or CAT5e) network cable and receptacle from outside (along the external cable connector plug) to main area where DC voltage hardness connections are. On the 23FB it is located under the bed. With this non-expensive prewiring, we will have the flexibility to install a Nano Station WiFi amplifier (NanoStation | Ubiquiti Networks, Inc.). I do so in my FC FB23 last summer with a router. Huge improvement on WiFi connectivity. On this setup. The CAT5e cable was run to outside from the upper vent trap of the refrigerator. See pictures attached.
In an another topic:
5. Airstream should consider providing “Inverter technology Heat Pump” instead to the existing noisy actual device. These thermal pump are available for VR since few years. This technology is available for homes since more than 15 years now. See PDF file attached
Good one on the AC. I cannot understand why someone does not do a rating review on the different brands and compare them for noise and performance. If such is not available or suitable then perhaps AS should consider a ducted under floor design. After all they are known as the Cadillac of travel trailers right?
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2022 Ford F150 PowerBoost Platinum w/7.2KW
On the brakes, that is a controversial issue. For handling and performance disc is better but in most heavy weight applications and unclean environments drum brakes are used as they have greater frictional area.
__________________
WBCCI 8653/AIR 60240
2022 Ford F150 PowerBoost Platinum w/7.2KW
This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.
Hi, forget about disc brakes unless you can make them function and dependable like automotive disc brakes; So far your disc brake systems have been a huge failure. At least my drum brakes always work. Stopping better isn't good if it doesn't work every time.
Linear Mode
