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Old 12-28-2008, 06:13 AM   #1
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States thinking of selling roads and parks

States consider selling off roads, parks - Economy in Turmoil-

This worries me if the states sell our parks. If they sell parks then we will lose.


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Old 12-28-2008, 06:23 AM   #2
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That is happening here,the state is taking bids to lease Aligator Alley ,which connects I 75 from Naples to Ft.Lauderdale,everyone is up in arms,but it seems to no avail. We have already pd. for it in taxes and tolls,they just raised the tolls,seems it would be self substaining.But what do I know,must be smarter minds than mine working on this.

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Old 12-28-2008, 06:36 AM   #3
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What's even more worrisome is..You and, I as taxpayers own this "cash cow" infrastructure, paid for with our taxes..
Makes you want to ask, how is it that the state agency, who is running this can't generate a profit other than by turning it over to a "foreign" entity??
Wild statement? I don't think so, as an investor these days can be anyone from China or UAE, who has the cash~
Does anyone remember the huge outcries when UAE bid on the contracts to manage the "Port Authorities" of the East Coast shortly after 9/11??
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Old 12-28-2008, 06:39 AM   #4
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If the government can't manage the public's interest, how can anyone honestly believe they can sell any property with the best interest of the public? It will sell at a discount, one can surely be sure - probably ten cents to the dollar.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:05 AM   #5
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The USFS has been "leasing" campgrounds on federal public lands for years. That money you paid the camp host a USFS campground went to a private entity and a very small portion went to the feds. I volunteer as a Visitor Information center in SW Colorado and I hear all sorts of complaints about the reservation system to use USFS campgrounds.

I also own some inholdings in a national forest and I have a road access lease. The lease is for 1400' of two track 20' wide and will cost me $126 a year. The original lease was $50 per year. I received a letter from the USFS last week outlining a new system to get fair market value on access roads, cabin sites etc.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:07 AM   #6
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My question is, after they "sell everything" and spend the money, then what are they going to do?

Tax us to death. Oh, wait, they already do that.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:30 AM   #7
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They have done a number of things here already. The "Skyway" has a 99 year lease on it. The city leased it to a company from Spain:

Chicagoist: Skyway Lease Finalized

They want to lease the Lottery here now too:

House Rolls the Dice on Illinois Lottery Lease Bill–What’s Your Vote? Your Two Cents Less

The also just inked a deal to lease the southern airport, Midway Airport:

Daley announces $2.5 billion lease for Midway Airport | Clout Street - local political coverage

They've been talking about leasing some or all of the toll roads too...

All this and they are still out of money. The City of Chicago alone has or will raked in about 4 billion dollars from the leases of the Skyway and Midway Airport.

The State is working to impeach the Gov who is alleged to have tried to sell the president- elect's old Senate seat.

Illinois is a total joke. These fat pigs have squandered everything. Daley is almost the biggest joke (the gov beats him out hands down). Millennium Park was to cost 150 million, it wound up costing 450 million. I don't know about you, but if you told your boss something costs something and it's 300 million more..... Now they don't want to plow out the side streets like they did in the past because it costs too much. If this was you or I, what do you think would happen to you or I in the private sector? Well, in Mayor Daley's case, they re-elected him!

The Illinois Gov, we all knew he was bad news after his first term and what did we do (read not me, I didn't vote for the clown either time), we voted him back into office.

So as much as it's bad what all the jokers do, it's our fault for re-electing these folks. The whole lot of them should have a trip to too shed.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:01 AM   #8
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They've already done that with some of the major access highways around Austin, TX. They took public roads (previously paid for with public funds) and leased them to private companies who erected toll booths and converted them to high priced tollways.

Just remember in the next presdinetial election when he runs for president that Governor Rick Perry was behind this boondoogle, which all of the other states are now eyeing with envy.
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Old 12-28-2008, 08:10 AM   #9
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You guys sure made my peaceful Sunday morning!

What a giant load of crap that is!!

I guess I'm negligent in keeping up with current events, or just plain oblivious. I hadn't heard about any of this. I guess that I've been out in the Airstream too much.

This really ticks me off! These wonderful politicians of ours do as they darn well please, knowing that the idiot electorate will keep them in office as long as they are given enough money by a bunch of crooks and thieves to buy ads and stupid roadside signs.

Think about this. US Congress Members spend about $20 Million to get a job that pay $150,000 per year. Do the math folks; do you really believe that they care even slightly what you and I think?

This whole "privatization" trend is a way for the crooks and thieves to collect really big on their "purchase" of our legislators at all levels of government.

Thank you for this opportunity to vent.

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Old 12-28-2008, 08:13 AM   #10
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by moosetags View Post

Think about this. US Congress Members spend about $20 Million to get a job that pay $150,000 per year. Do the math folks; do you really that they care even slightly what you and I think?
Thanks, Brian! I think that was the most accurate and honest appraisal (including my own rants!!) of the situation that I've ever heard.
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:01 AM   #12
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Next thing you know, they'll be auctioning off Obama's Senate seat...
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie View Post
All this and they are still out of money. The City of Chicago alone has or will raked in about 4 billion dollars from the leases of the Skyway and Midway Airport.

The State is working to impeach the Gov who is alleged to have tried to sell the president- elect's old Senate seat.
Oh, wait--they already did that.
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:44 AM   #13
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In western Colorado the Forest Service has been closing campgrounds. They call it "decommissioning". Others are leased to private companies. When Gen'l Disarray was in southern Colorado last summer he reported that those campgrounds are more expensive and not well cared for. The season in the still public ones are shorter and shorter. This means fewer places for us to camp. The money they do have seems to go to serving the oil and gas companies.

Since I got my Golden Age Passport five or six years ago, I have noticed the Park Service finds more and more ways to renege on the deal. Sure you can get into the Park for free, but more things have a price on it. At Mt. Rushmore they have a parking garage run by a private company. There's no charge for the Park, but there are only a score or less of parking spaces elsewhere and for older people, they are a tough walk to see Mt. Rushmore. I think it was $8 for parking and no discount as was implied when I got the Passport. At Cape Hatteras everyone can get into the national seashore, but even with the Passport, there's a fee to go in the lighthouse. I don't even want to write about what used to be called the "Fee Demo" program where we have to pay to use relatively primitive areas of national forests and BLM lands.

Lodging and restaurants in national parks has long been run by private businesses. Some places are run very well, but many are not. Room rates and meals are very high and facilities are minimal. Often the food is poor quality or prepared poorly, seemingly microwaved in a pouch.

Because Colorado doesn't have the money to build many roads, two toll roads were built around Denver. The tolls are very high, the roads not used very much. Some legislators have wanted to make existing roads toll or partially toll (E-470, I-70). They have succeeded (I think) in making "Lexis lanes" on the high occupancy lanes around Denver. If they had tolls on existing roads it makes people take other roads and solves little or nothing.

In Pa., they wanted to turn I-80 into a tollroad. I think the program failed and it won't happen. If it did, I would avoid that road and simply go elsewhere. I like northern Pa., and used to live there a long time ago, but I would either go on US 6 or through NY. If the goal is to have an efficient national transportation system, toll roads do not work. They add a layer of profit and that means either higher tolls, less maintenance or both. Even if the private business is more efficient, the profits extracted more than counter any efficiencies.

Fortunately, it most states it's very difficult to sell a park. Parks were created to provide all people with an opportunity to relax, appreciate nature, and unwind. They are a valuable public resource like public libraries. My county won't sell any parks because we don't have any.

In recent years we have had an attitude that everything is for sale. Many public facilities have been leased and cost more to use. It appears we get less for more. Private businesses run parts of the federal gov't and it costs taxpayers more than it did when public employees did the job.

From a point of pure self interest, when roads are made tollways, trailer owners pay a lot more to travel.

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Old 12-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #14
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Could much of the privetization be from lack of the general population going our state parks to camp? It kind of reminds me of many of the farmers getting out of farming because we keep raising property taxes which makes it impossible for them to hold on to their farms. Big ag companies are buying them up and leasing the land or it is being developed. Two things that are important to me about America is our wide opens spaces, beautiful parks, and the family farm. We just seem to more interested in urban plight and urban problems. There is more to this country then just the cities. What are we doing with all our tax money? We still have huge urban problems, infrastructure problems, educational problems. etc. What do we do with our money? What money? we are in debt more so today then ever before. Now we are bailing out businesses, banks and the like.


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