Rant! Over kill

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by JimGolden

The 4" deep frame section WAS a mistake in the long trailers. Airstream recognized this and corrected it in 1985ish with a 5" frame.

My 1973 trailer has 5" frame members.

[Stefrobrts]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Anyone reading this who is not guilty of the American way? You never took an extra aspirin? Never super sized your lunch? Never added another 5 lbs torque? Etc. Think really hard, I believe we all are guilty of this, including me.

Bob

Oh gosh yes, how many times have I broke something because I wanted to get it just a bit tighter - until I bought a torque wrench! I agree, 'more is better' is the American way!

I also agree with Summerkid's polishing comments. That can get really out of hand. And the worst part is it's SO HARD not to join that crowd!

[till]

Some of us have no choice on the polish thing. When I get the "new back section spliced in I will have a trailer with a poor polish job on the front and a failing original clear coat on the rear.... But I will save the questions for another thread. Steph, I know what you mean about over tightining till I got a torque wrench. WOW what a difference.

[Ganglin]

Enjoyed you long reply - thanks.

We are 2 months and 3 days into our 71 Overlander. I think everyone should make their own decisions. I'm just into the original aspect of the unit however. Maybe that's just from the fact that the original owner (before leaving it to his grandson) apparently felt the same way. So we were able to see the pleated drapes in the original tracks - the bunk wall pads covered with matching material and something as silly as the little spray nozzle on the original galley faucet.

Spent a lot of time at the unit this weekend and decided that we are going to stay as original as possible - there is just a feeling about that for us at least - others may like something else and that's OK too.

Original thought was to tile the bathroom floor and then thought again about the weight in rear bath (not to mention the work cutting it). Decided on place and press tiles after looking at the original owners manual. Figure those tiles in the bath to the galley will cut 50 pounds off the weight compared to the carpet/pad in it now.

Took the LPG tanks off this weekend to have them filled and replace the OPD valve in one - was amazed how light they were in comparison to even the smaller steel tanks on my grill.

With that said, enjoyed your "rant" and you have an original supporter here. Think about it this way -the more other units "get cobbled" the more yours will increase in value to Airstream purists.

Gary

[HiHoAgRV]

Last night I had a thought, two brain cells must have bumped and I'll try to not let that happen again but for now-
I wonder if the 4" and 5" frame rails have anything to do with the trim package? My '77 29' rear bath DOES have 5" frame rails and is ALSO an International package. There seems to be a scattering of 5"ers in the middle of the 4" wasteland of the mid '70's. Anyone else see the same thing?

[JimGolden]

Maybe they had different frame suppliers who used different depth sections?

Now this would be totally counterintuitive to any kind of engineer, but would they use the 4" section on the longer frames to keep the weight down? As in, a 31' 4" frame weighs about the same as a 27' 5" frame?

The frames needed to be deeper, not necessarily thicker. Depth gets you stiffness at a faster rate than the weight goes up. Like an airplane wing, the deeper you can make the spars, generally the lighter you can make the wing for a given strength.

Ever see an "Award" brand travel trailer? Their frame has holes punched in the web with embossments for stiffness. A good design, but not cheap to make.

[overlander63]

Historically, the International coaches had heavier-duty frames than the non-International units. The reasoning behind this was a trailer outfitted with an International package may be taken to some god-forsaken part of the world where a road was a pair of ruts in the mud.
That doesn't mean all International coaches had the 5" frame, and that doesn't mean all non-International ones had the 4" frame, but that was the original intention.

[bobchevy89]

yes but to each their own.I don't pity Andy Or you the fact is you make more money fixing some one elses mistake.you look the job over then charge accordingly. most people fix their own because it costs more to have a pro do it. I understand where you are comming from I had the same problem in my moho.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Historically, the International coaches had heavier-duty frames than the non-International units. The reasoning behind this was a trailer outfitted with an International package may be taken to some god-forsaken part of the world where a road was a pair of ruts in the mud.
That doesn't mean all International coaches had the 5" frame, and that doesn't mean all non-International ones had the 4" frame, but that was the original intention.

So that does make some sense. I guess I got lucky and got the bigger frame.

[Minnie's Mate]

Now the question on the International vs. the non-International units. Do they still make the Internationals more rugged for more rugged terrain or is it just a name? (I think I know the answer).

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Minnie's Mate

Now the question on the International vs. the non-International units. Do they still make the Internationals more rugged for more rugged terrain or is it just a name? (I think I know the answer).

If the food was prepared using fire, the meal was served long ago.

[HiHoAgRV]

I'm hoping some other members would pipe in and add some correlation to the 'Internationals are built tougher' theory. It is the only thing that makes sense to me on why some '70's units have 5" frames when the general opinion is they all should have 4"er's

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

I'm hoping some other members would pipe in and add some correlation to the 'Internationals are built tougher' theory. It is the only thing that makes sense to me on why some '70's units have 5" frames when the general opinion is they all should have 4"er's

Vernon, I remember reading this in a couple of publications, of course I can't find them now. Hopefully someone with better brain cell managment can help us out.

[5cats]

Originally Posted by overlander63

If the food was prepared using fire, the meal was served long ago.

OK, I got that

[rmpray]

I expect I will find out soon enough about the frame thickness. Got me all excited just thinking about it. Quite right though, over kill is often under engineered. Tiny ribs and 3/8" plywood do a pretty good job in the hull of my boat and take quite a pounding. Same applies to the airstream. Strength comes from just the right angles,balanced support, and light weight materials.
All that does not mean my rig is not cobbled together though Overkill...ok my TV may be overkill...but not my cobbling

[Minnie's Mate]

I think the reason so many may "overkill" their Airstream renovations is because they are not professional Airstream restorers/builders and don't have the expertise in material strengths to know how much is enough so they feel the necessity to add a little more for good measure. My background is in architecture and I currently manage construction projects on a commercial scale. I still can't drive a nail straight, but even so, there is little correlation between commercial construction and Airstream construction. I would, if remodeling an Airstream, reconstruct it with the point of reference that I know and would over-engineer the construction by building the cabinets/furniture the way I would on a commercial project. Even residential projects don't have the same level of structural requirements that commercial project do.

[rmpray]

Too true. That said, over engineering does not always mean heavier. Looking at some of the couch redesigns in the forum quite a few folks put some serious thinking into making things light and strong. SUre, as an archetect you may not be able to resist planning that extra story, think astro liner...but I would stay away from any thought af a tilt wall Airstream

[Minnie's Mate]

Originally Posted by rmpray

you may not be able to resist planning that extra story, think astro liner...but I would stay away from any thought af a tilt wall Airstream

Actually, I like the idea of the Skydeck. There were a couple of flaws in the design though. One being the stairs...took up way too much valuable interior floor space. A ship's ladder would have been much more efficient and would have left room for some other amenity. Second, a better location for the ship's ladder would have made a better flow of space and would have allowed for another slide out for more living space. That upper deck virtually doubles the usable size of most camp sites.