possible names for a new club name

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Come on man, you just can't drop that one here. I need some details! What do I need to do!!!

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I have to tell the truth, I can't cook, but Sandy can! I will wake her up and have her post how this goes. I just put the mess together, she does all the mixing................

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Come on man, you just can't drop that one here. I need some details! What do I need to do!!!

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OK Leo, I woke her up to get this:
You whip up the cream cheese, amount depends on the number of people but plan on 2 tablespoons full/serving
Add fresh Door County WI cherries, about 15 or so/serving
Grill you french toast, bread, egg, milk etc
When toast is grilled add 2 tablespoons of the stuff above and cover with second piece of toast.
Serve with butter (pure WI butter) and maple syrup and lots of cold milk

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Leo and Ed, You guys are real good at diverting the discussion. Was there seminar at International for how to do that? Was that how you dropped the one VP for another? Talk about something else while doing something other. Kind of surprised to see you doing it Leo. You usually step up toe to toe.

Maybe this thread has run it's course or perhaps Leo and Ed have run it off the tracks, but both of you can enjoy your back door stuffed cherries soon enough. Hope your jaws don't fall too far out of socket when a new train pulls into the station.

[Nuvite-F]

Frank,

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Leo and Ed, You guys are real good at diverting the discussion. Was there seminar at International for how to do that?

Are you kidding? The WBCCI doesn't know anything about the internet! The powers-that-be of the WBCCI couldn't hijack a thread if it bit 'em on the ankle.

In any case, Leo and Ed are doing you a favor by keeping this thread on the front page. Once it quiets down and sinks to the bottom you won't get any more name suggestions.

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Hope your jaws don't fall too far out of socket when a new train pulls into the station.

We'll be waiting with 'bated breath. Another club is a perennial topic on Airforums, but it hasn't happened yet.

Good luck,
Nuvi

[Gene]

It would be necessary to get Airstream's permission to use a name they own. If a group wants to form a club for all aluminum trailer owners, then the use of the Airstream name would be avoided and the word "aluminum" could be used.

An organization needs organizers and the kind of people who organize things like some rules. If their personalities run towards certain toxic personalities such as martinets, petty tyrants and such, you'll have a bad organization. HOA's have a bad reputation because some people who are busybodies seem to gravitate towards running for their boards. Since people who don't like rules, don't like to run for such a board, they don't have any say. This is the dilemma of organizations. But some people appreciate the need for organization and aren't bad leaders—it's important to make sure they are the leaders.

Since running a big or a small organization is a lot of work, retirees tend to be officers and board members. With that comes a certain mindset, often different than those of younger members. This is another dilemma.

Liability is an important consideration. You are responsible when you do something that reasonably results in injury to another—not the legal definition, but close enough for here. Some lawyers abuse this, but in practicing for 30+ years, I have not met many and most lawyers can't stand that type of lawyer.

Many small organizations ally with other ones to obtain insurance at better rates. Rates have gone up and up and $40,000 does not sound unusual to me. Blame the insurance industry for that.

You can organize as a nonprofit corporation or an unincorporated association. Either works for tax exempt status these days, but require some legal and accounting help. Organizational documents are necessary (articles of incorporation or articles of association plus bylaws) to make sure things are done fairly and democratically. To reduce it to one page will leave out a lot of stuff. I have dealt with organizations for decades and most people don't like all the documents and rules, but then when a question comes up, they want to know what the rule is or just how to do it. Starting out you may not need tax exempt status because the organization will spend everything it takes in. There are many types of 501(c) organizations and there are different tax exempt rules for them too.

If people you don't like, or people who's idea of how an organization should be run disagree with your idea of it, get in power, they can bend or subvert the rules anyway. Watch out who you elect!

The Forum does act as a clearinghouse for rallies. How Andy R. deals with that because of the Forum's potential liability is an interesting question, but I hope he has discussed it with some experts. If Mike trips over a table negligently placed in his way by a fellow Forum member at a Forum rally, he may want to take care of it himself, but as explained by others, his insurance company may not want to, depending how much the injury costs. You might not think the table example is a good one, but if it were placed partly on a pathway and is difficult to get around with your hands full of covered dishes, and it's dusk and Mike's eyesight isn't what it used to be, well maybe it's not Mike's fault.

I'm guessing there are some very different reasons people want a new organization. Some are mad at WBCCI, some just don't feel it's their kind of organization, and probably some feel both. But these reasons may be at cross purposes, and founding a new organization with people at cross purposes isn't going to work well.

We haven't joined WBCCI because we don't want our money to go to an organization run like we perceive the WBCCI is run. Thus, an organization we'd be interested in would have to be different and have clear goals and governance. I don't mean "different" in reaction to all things WBCCI, but different in governance and possibly goals or mission. I think such an organization would have to start small, probably regionally. As it grew, maybe some units of the WBCCI would want to join it (I don't have to tell anyone which ones those might be).

But if you want to be part of a new group, prepare to spend more time than you want at it. People dissatisfied with an existing group at some point start talking about forming a new group. Once they find out what they have to do to start it, promote it, get insurance, have a membership effort, etc., they usually stop right there. If some people wish to start a new organization, great, go for it, and be prepared for what it requires to do it right.

As for a name, Aluminitis Inc. Perhaps some heavy drinking is necessary for me to do better.

Gene

[Gene]

A few more things:

As stated above, liability waivers are of limited use. Blanket ones ("I'm not responsible even if I strangle you because I don't like your socks") are especially useless, but frequently used because some people are intimidated by them. The best thing to do is be careful what you do, hope for the best, get together with others with like interests, and hope for the best.

I have been sued for something I had nothing to do with, but got dragged into it because I was a board member of a nonprofit. I didn't like it and knew from the beginning someone (and their lawyer, one of those "colleagues" I can't stand) was after insurance money; fortunately I had insurance. Sometimes things don't work out.

Most times nothing happens. I've had fire insurance at every home I've owned, but have yet to have had a fire. Rallies probably have few accidents associated with them. But when the time comes there is a serious, expensive injury, insurance was a good idea.

Gene

[Goin camping]

Starting a new club would be lots of paperwork and preparation. You need to incorporate to protect yourself and get the tax status you'll need. Figure on some lawyer and accountant time to get you set up and of course insurance.

A couple of determined folks could do it. If your new club is open to all aluminum trailers it might grow faster and hopefully you will avoid all the things about the WBCCI you don't like. That may be tougher than you think because of human nature.

Here's a few names.

Tin foil tourists.

ATA, Aluminum trailer assoc.

Highway palace assoc.

I'm very happy in the WBCCI but I wish you luck and success

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by 65GT

See, and that's where you lose all credibility... Are you trying to insinuate that Ed or I had anything to do with Rob's issue? A past, past, past, and a never been?



Come on man -- get a grip...

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If they only knew what we have been through, and parked on black top is at the bottom of the list.

Now with that said, I'll step up Frank and and give you my input when it came to moving people through the VAC as officers. I said and and will say in public that I had reservations about Rob being able to pull off a VAC International without ever being at one. Also I was concerned about his participation at the national level when it came time for him to be VAC Prez.

Just so we all know where I stood on this issue.


Time to start cooking!

[rideair]

There are many reasons for starting a new club, church, civic organization, etc… Depending on the backing ($$$) the startup process can be easy or difficult. But remember, no amount of money or volunteerism (by a few) is a guarantee it will survive. Only by giving people a reason to join will keep it alive. Just because someone is “unhappy” with the one, does not mean they would join “another” club. That reasoning only works in elections and even then sometimes people decide, just to sit it out for awhile.

What would a new organization offer members that cannot be found either through the current WBCCI and/or Unit, TCT or one of the many other camping, caravanning, RV or vintage trailer clubs already out there?

Plus, what can this organization offer a new member for a given amount of money? Is offering a newsletter(and to what level $$), camping together, eating off the same table to later sit around a campfire and drink a beer together enough to join?

Could there be a new/old club personality out there that would bring people together with a common mind set? I think so. Remember, when the WBCCI became a club, it was after many years of people with a common thread among themselves who were then able to finally weave the fabric of the WBCC. The entity that comes close to that model would be the “Airforums” group at this time. Is that the only way to start a club, “no” look at TCT. Anyone can start a club, but a club of one, is not much of a club. But a club does not need 10,000 to have fun either.

Though a name is important, it needs to be more than just a “cool name”. The name should reflect you and what you are about if possible or a name that brings an image to a persons mind about what they could experience by joining. You could always go for an animals name like the “Lions Club” did, I would not reccomend using the name “Jackasses”, though it would be funny!

A name will come when the time is right and you will know it when it does.


When you can take the pebble from my hand, it is time for you to leave,

[66Overlander]

Rather than repeatedly grousing here about the VP progression, has anyone thought about personally calling or emailing any of the recent VAC officers to see what really happened? I know Scott Scheuermann responded here, but that move was not his doing and he only reluctantly agreed to it. Perhaps if the decision makers were personally contacted, an apology would be extended.

I really don't believe the mishap was any sort of evil plot. Someone or a small group of people make a decision that they thought best at the time. Perhaps they didn't realize they may have been violating "the rules". And recognize that we all seem to hate following rules except when they are not followed and it negatively affects us personally.

I agree that the VP progression shouldn't have changed without Rob being fully involved in the decision and agreeing to it. Certainly it should have been better communicated. Is there reason for Rob to be upset? Absolutely, but everyone else needs to get over it and realize that people make mistakes. One bad experience should not be the reason to go form another club.

And the parking on asphalt for much of the VAC was another poor development, but as already noted, that was not the plan. Letting VAC members with non-vitntage trailers park in the VAC area was only a very small part of the problem. The weather and water and electrical teams did things that compromised the original plan and resulted in many non-VAC members parked in the VAC area and less total spaces on grass. Reason to be upset if you were on pavement - yes, but reason enough to start another club, IMO no.

There have always been compromises at Airstream and club events. If you look at any of the old caravan and rally photos from the 50's & 60's you will sometimes see trailers so close together you could hold hands out the window. And this was with no hookups, dumping your black water into a gopher hole. I assume some folks didn't like that either, but they got over it, because each year attendence increased. Or maybe they all didn't worry about those things back then.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Good luck with the new club, but as of right now I am having too much fun within WBCCI to join another club.

[PeeWee]

No air conditioners, no electricity or water hook ups...

Just think of it 7 months in Africa, and more of the same in the Middle East.

No pavement, parking on dirt, driving in dust...wash board roads, no roads

And everyone listens to how bad it is to rally up in the United States.

Generational gaps, or is that gripes?

[ronstory]

Been watching this thread... and simply can't turn away. It started on names for a potential new AS members group, slipped into a discussion on legal liabiltity, followed by recipes and then back to what's wrong with WBCCI.

PeeWee- thank-you for the reality check where the 'bar' used to be set.

[greywolf]

It is pointless and futile to even discuss forming another club, it will never happen. If you aren't satisfied with the WBCCI then simply don'trenew and just go to independant Airstream Forums rallies or whatever.

It's no diferent from whenever people get mad at a preacher and try to split a church, taking as many families with them. Most quit attending anywhere at all. Even those who do start up a new church, it isn't long before another disagreement stirs them up and another split occours. Usually the one who starts up an origination acts as though they own it all.

If there are some changes you'd like to see take place in the WBCCI, then quit bitching and moaning, get involved within the structure of it all where you can eventually make a difference. Sure it takes a while to move up the ranks within the local region and so on but you do move up the ladder of leadership.

Why worry about a name right off anyways? I would think there are more important issues to be worked out first. But if you insist on coming up with a name here's an idea, take letters out of this phrase and make up an acronym,
Those who like to bitch and moan-- TWOLTBAM Well, you get the idea.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

This has been a great thread. It has taught me a great deal about human nature. It has taught me how very foolish I am. Thank you all for your input. I think it was the following "thanks" I received that made me realize that my actions here are very foolish:
You're worried about so many people, yet who is worried about you and your experience? Reflection...
I will take some one else's advise to me and just shut up now.

[rideair]

Frank,

Not to jump off the “name thread” but I would like to comment back on you last post when you say “You're worried about so many people, yet who is worried about you and your experience? “

There were many folks that “did” worry about your experience, thus is the reason why your “elders” told you “not” to go. We had been there, done that, got the shirt and came home, hoping to teach our children by our mistakes, ones that maybe someday we will even make again when the time is right.

In the words of one of your elders, “WBCCI International is hardcore Airstreaming and politics rolled into one and is not for the faint of heart”. Many of us knew it would destroy your purity, but some things must be experienced by someone and not taught to them.

I will leave you with these words,

“Perceive the way of nature and no force of man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on: avoid it. You do not have to stop force: it is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced." - Master Kan

[greywolf]

The main reason why I never go to rallies beyond the local/regional level is because I only attend what the "fun factor" appeals to me. I hear the stories of the "impressive" flag ceromonies at International, but from being prior military who has participated in a mighty fair share in military formations, troop pass and reviews, parades, retreats and all sorts of ceromonies (most of them standing at parade rest while in the hot sun) I can guarantee I do not get a woody out of that sort of stuff. BTW- the retreats I'm referring to are not corparate retreats, you military guys know what I'm talking about.

My idea of a good rally is siting around with fellow friends eating good food, doing fun activities, like eating, and sitting around a campfire talking to one another, while eating smores. Sorta like what real camping is, except we sleep more comfortable than on the gournd in a tent!

[Ed Emerick]

Originally Posted by 65GT

Ed,

You know, there's nothing better than Skillet Hash first thing in the morning at a WBCCI Rally, so I just thought I'd share:



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Leo,
The Hash was a hit! All I did was add eggs cooked to order and this held me through a round of golf and never was hungry even at dinner.

thanks!
Ed

PS I was going to take photos but pictures of food just don't turn me on.....................

[soldiermedic]

Why did this thread have to get reintroduced?

[StingrayL82]

Originally Posted by soldiermedic

Why did this thread have to get reintroduced?

Because people are sadists and/or masochists.

greywolf, an afternoon BDE Change of Command and subsequent pass and review at Ft. Huachuca in July, which lasts two hours....now there's a pleasant experience!!!

[soldiermedic]

Pass and Review...ugggg.

Kinda like the revival of this thread. Need to remind myself to remove subscription.